I have a full plate personally, however I noted the Cherry Valley group or some in it, were interested in PRR Silverliners.

I personally would be interested in both Silverliners and Metroliners PRR.

It suddenly struck me if anyone has the enthusiasm to pursue the issue, OK Engines probably can make a scale prototypically accurate body. The need would be for the ends, pantographs and trucks, powered and nonpowered.

As far as the Metroliner specifically is concerned, perhaps Lionel which made a shorty can, will supply parts.

With my ongoing layout rebuilding and Silver Meteor project, I have more than enough.

I would like to believe someone on this forum would be interested.
Original Post
I am interested in both of these models. The rounded windows on the Silverliner I's were just a nice touch to what was otherwise a pretty plain looking train. The Metroliners remain a class until themselves and while not quite the success they were intended to be, they can still be found sans motors and electrical equipment in push pull service.

Jonathan

 

I would definitely be interested if MTH or Lionel came out with a Silverliner set in PRR,Penn Central and reading and it would be even better if they came out with a Metroliner set in PRR,Penn Central and Amtrak. I know MTH was scheduled to do the Metroliner set in PRR and Amtrak but did not do it due to not enough pre orders. I think it is time for one of the companies to do those sets. Good Thread
I would love to get PRR Silverliners and Metroliners. The Silverliners could also be done for SEPTA, but I'm not sure SEPTA would grant a license to do so.

I'd also like to get:

Amtrak E60


SEPTA Subway/Elevated sets


SEPTA Kawasaki double or single-end LRV
SEPTA Brill Bullet cars

Penn Central, Amtrak Metroliners
Rail Diesel Cars (RDC) sets (any and all roads)

That's not an insult, that is just a fact of life!

Brian

President, Chief Executive Officer

Penn American Railroad

"Serving the Basement"

 

Northern Central High Railers (Western Division)

 

Eat, Sleep, Run Trains, Repeat !

Did Conrail ever put their logo or name on the Silverliners? I remember riding on one of the Silverliner I cars a few years ago that still had "Pennsylvania" above the windows.

That's not an insult, that is just a fact of life!

Brian

President, Chief Executive Officer

Penn American Railroad

"Serving the Basement"

 

Northern Central High Railers (Western Division)

 

Eat, Sleep, Run Trains, Repeat !

I can't speak for the Silverliners, but the CR logo or name never appeared on the NJT similar Arrow cars. They lost their PC logo and simply kept the NJT DOT arrow on the one end of the car. The same was true for all commuter passenger cars in the state.

Jonathan

 

Williams produced the Metroliner about 10 years ago. I believe that they released PRR, PC, and Amtrak versions. The PRR briefly ran them before the merger.



I remember there being some discussion questioning whether they were ever painted in PRR colors. I don't know if they were scale length.

Jan
Chris,

I knew they were not scale length, but if the rest of their dimensions are scale then you could cut and splice them. I expect that they are 72' instead of 80' to 84', There was a review in CTT in 2001. I have that issue in a box ... somewhere.

Jan
quote:
Did Conrail ever put their logo or name on the Silverliners?

Yes, they did. A Conrail blue square about 2x2 with a white logo and the word CONRAIL set below one of the windows on the cab end. If there was something on the sides, I don't remember. As it is, they were only there for a relative short time before they were conveyed to SEPTA.

Fred
So whatever happened to the group that was going to have a CAD guy do all of these in kit form and RTR form?

that group would be us... the Cherry Valley Model RR Club. if enough people want it, we'll see about having it produced.

someone tell me to start a thread asking for commitments and we'll see who ponys up... with a deposit.

I think we need at least 50 cars, but I'll ask Drew who is leading the project.

I am John Galt !

Chris

quote:
Originally posted by PRR Man:
So whatever happened to the group that was going to have a CAD guy do all of these in kit form and RTR form?

that group would be us... the Cherry Valley Model RR Club. if enough people want it, we'll see about having it produced.

someone tell me to start a thread asking for commitments and we'll see who ponys up... with a deposit.

I think we need at least 50 cars, but I'll ask Drew who is leading the project.


Start the thread, and please be specific about exactly what you are offering.

Namely RTR or kit, including all parts , both for 2 rail scale and 3 rail hi-rail. Without exact information, it will be difficult to get anyone, including myself to advance funds.

Are you going for both Silverliners and Metroliners, or just one or the other?

As I posted in the beginning of this thread, OK Engines probably could provide a scale body for either set of cars.

As a disclaimer I have no stock or options in OK Engines. They simply make a prototypically accurate shell. DO NOT buy anything except the shell if you are going to produce either model.

I am not trying to be negative, just pointing out the need to be very specific. It resolves problems before they occur.

Oh for a spell checker on the Forum.
I can tell you the project was specific for a phase 1 SILVERLINER only as a resin kit. Some club members were interested in getting them and the way to make it feasible was to offer it to others.

If I recall correctly the builder had already done them in HO and was willing to scale up for O scale.

Like before, I'll talk to Drew and he can take the lead if the project is still feasible.

I am John Galt !

Chris

This was for Pioneer I-II-III/Silverliner II Budd-built cars only. No St. Louis cars, no Metroliners here. (Although if these do well, i might consider putting together an order for those later.)

As i recall from my discussions with the builder, the minimum order needed to make the run happen was about 10 cars, at $250 each for a shell and some other parts. This price does NOT currently include the mechanism or assembly, although that might be somewhat negotiable for a slightly higher price.

--Drew

To "call a spade a spade" is to speak honestly and directly about a topic, specifically topics that others may avoid speaking about due to their sensitivity or embarrassing nature. The Oxford English Dictionary records a more forceful variant, "to call a spade a bloody shovel", attested since 1919.

quote:
Originally posted by DominicMazoch:
Now, was I seeing things? I did see some silver EMU cars in Philly with a blank for a door in the middle of the car? But I did see pics of them on Jersey units? WAs in the alternate world of FRINGE?


The Philly cars with the blanked-out center door are the Silverliner IV cars. The Jersey cars are the Arrow I-II-III-IV cars, and do have the center doors installed. (None of which I have any interest in seeing produced as models at this time.)

--Drew

To "call a spade a spade" is to speak honestly and directly about a topic, specifically topics that others may avoid speaking about due to their sensitivity or embarrassing nature. The Oxford English Dictionary records a more forceful variant, "to call a spade a bloody shovel", attested since 1919.

The closest thing I've seen to Metroliner information for the modeler is in the information in a book I have published on Behalf of the Budd Corp. circa 1981 and in the surprisingly accurate Bachmann HO Metroliners of the early 70's. The original release of those were center drive, 8 wheel drive powered units with metal sprung Faively pantographs that look and operate like the prototype.

Having said that, I'm sure information is available from what remains of Budd or at the State Archives in Pennsylvania. The only intact Metroliner is at the PA state museum and it's a rare cafe car at that. It never got Amtrak paint and sits outside in its original PRR / PC red stripe surrounding the windows.

Joe Acri is probably the researcher to hire in PA if you want to obtain all the available documentation.

Jonathan

 

The book I was referring to is the "Illustrated Treasury of Budd Railway Passenger Cars: 1931-1981".

Not as many diagrams on the Metroliners, but a wealth of photos of all things Budd and lots of great builder's photos of a majority of the Budd products. A must have for any fan of passenger cars.

I need to dig out Joe Acri's contact. He did research for me on the GG1 project and is thoroughly fluent in finding information in both the state archives of PA as well as some good connections to the PRRT&HS society.

His fees are not cheap, but certainly reasonably for the quality of product. Again, I'll need to do a little digging on contact info. It's been nearly two years.

Jonathan

 

I did not mean to imply any hasseling or cheating. The guy who made me an offer was not trying to hassle or cheat. The American way is to go into business with others. It's just that the train business, at least on obscure things, is a difficult business to clearly see a profit. Mike Wolf is an exception, not the rule.

Very often these folks with very special parts either forget where the current pile of letters is. or get the piles of correspondence hidden under some other project. I know I always tell folks I promise stuff to to call me again if they do not get a package within, say, three weeks. I have a way of forgetting . . .

Eric Lundgren has posted elsewhere photos of the Division Point RDC. I have never seen such quality in an obscure model, and if they can do that for an RDC, perhaps it could be done for the Metroliners?
quote:
Does anyone know if the Latest Lionel Cab car has the same Width as the MTH Metroliner cars? I am considering a kitbash. IF not the Lionel version, How about the Williams Metroliners?

The Lionel Amfleet cars are "slimmer" than the MTH cars and look a little strange together. I've got the MTH versions and my son has the HHP-8 set. This was one of the first things I looked at when he got his set after they were released.

The Williams versions are "fatter" than the MTH cars because they are extruded aluminum and are more like traditional 15" extruded aluminum passenger cars.

All three manufacturers have used a different "scale" when making their Amfleet cars. Makes mixing and matching brands rather difficult. Frown

I would like to see MTH offer "rubber" retrofit kits for their Amfleet car windows. The Lionel ones are superior in this regard.

Fred
I don't believe the MTH planned Metroliners were going to be scale, but rather 18" scale cars. Metroliners were 85' long and served as the basic platform that Budd developed the Amcan I fleet off of.

A true scale set would be most desirable.

Jonathan

 

Would it be possible to purchase just a pair of A ends?

--Drew

To "call a spade a spade" is to speak honestly and directly about a topic, specifically topics that others may avoid speaking about due to their sensitivity or embarrassing nature. The Oxford English Dictionary records a more forceful variant, "to call a spade a bloody shovel", attested since 1919.

Parts arrived





Shell is scale length, non engineer end is plastic and very nice. The operator end is rough and has too many windows and doors are not correct.



Remember when I started this topic I said my plate was full and needed someone else to do work. Whatever.

Do need help, if I remember correctly, someone probably WBB has a power truck for many engines including Metroliners. Does anyone know more details?
Mark,

That operator end looks like a later cab control car configuration - even though it's still not right for that either. It looks more like one of those than a true Metroliner cab.

As far as trucks go, I think the Metroliner trucks look more like AAR type B trucks than anything else. WBB incorrectly used Genesis sideframes on some of their more recent models.

Fred
I have found that the most accurate replacement trucks for Metroliners are very similar to those found on later RDC's. Athearn's RDC trucks look quite good on a few HO restorations I've done to a fleet of Bachmann cars that lost their trucks.

The extrusion has no window cut outs? Do you need to provide that yourself? If so how? Just curious. I have several Williams O "gauge" cars and would like to get a more scale Metroliner to play with.

However, Fred called it. The Williams late cars have the Genesis unit style side frames which are not very close. Also every single car in the set is set up to be a power unit and is weighted as such. A single powered unit will not pull the weight of the four car set up a grade. I added a second powered unit, but then robbed parts for a Genesis project instead ......

I would think that the Williams end caps might actually work in the extrusion you have if it is the same style extrusion. The cab side parts you got are definitely post Metroliner rebuilds into cab cars. Even after the Amtrak rebuild program, the Metroliners retained the single window for the cab. I remember them running in service between Philly and Harrisburg during their final years as powered units.

Jonathan

 

Fred you insight is right on.

I have been looking and pondering what to do next.

Doing a double end, plastic and then metal and massive filling and molding is one option, seeing if WBB can or will sell operator ends separately is another.

No really good answer right now.
quote:
The extrusion has no window cut outs? Do you need to provide that yourself? If so how?


I have found an end mill to be the only viable way to cut windows, unless you have a special punch setup. You can hand-file if you want, but your psychiatrist bill will be much bigger than the cost of a small mill.
quote:
Originally posted by bob2:
quote:
The extrusion has no window cut outs? Do you need to provide that yourself? If so how?


I have found an end mill to be the only viable way to cut windows, unless you have a special punch setup. You can hand-file if you want, but your psychiatrist bill will be much bigger than the cost of a small mill.


What is an end mill? Just curious.
If you want Williams parts, you can find the Metroliner sets fairly reasonably priced. I think I only paid $150 for mine used. Here is a photo of mine from my pre-focus days of O gauge railroading.









And Bachmann's more accurate version from the 70's in HO:


Note that the HO version is more accurate on the scale of the end. Williams compressed the end to be more visually in line with the shorter car.

Jonathan

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PRRTrainguy:
Parts arrived



Shell is scale length, non engineer end is plastic and very nice. The operator end is rough and has too many windows and doors are not correct.


QUOTE]

With further research, found these pictures in Pennsylvania Electric Locomotives & MU cars by Leijestrand & Sweetland.





Both are close but have flat sides whereas this end has convexity as per Amtrack coaches. But end is probably origional model for this end.
quote:
Originally posted by prrhorseshoecurve:
PRRtrainguy, you do realize you are trying to compare two different MU electric models. the Photo at the PRR rr museum of Pa is of a Genuine PRR Metroliner. your book photos are of Silverliner I's from Budd, to distinctively uniqe models.


I probably did not make it clear, I am comparing the metal end which was clearly pointed out as non metroliner.

With these two pictures, I was trying to point out though non metroliner it also is not completely prototypical even for these cars due to sides being convex and origional cars had flat sides.
I would love to see a scale Metroliner and a Silver liner in PRR markings, I seen them everyday when they ran from 30th street station.
I remember MTH doing a railking version but cancelled it from lack of orders. I thought the painting/drawing made it look horrible that is one reason I did not order it.
I believe both versions would only look good in a true scale version including the different models.

I am a little hesitant in buying a resin casting of them, I worked with resins many time and have yet to find one that would be hardy enough to stand up to three rail running, they are also very easy to warp from heat. I know beggars can't be choosey but I thinks I would pass on the resin one.MHO
John
http://home.earthlink.net/~mcjackson/angelsgate.htm Charter member of the greatest RR Club in the World. "Angels Gate Highrailers"
Now have seven shells and non operator ends.

Am ordering Budd book and hopefully it will have enough information to allow for window placement for coaches, parlor and dinette.

Modeling of operator end to begin relatively soon.

Ordering motorized truck.

Any update on falvey pantograph availability?
I have been in contact with Ed Duddy. Hopefully next weekend he will be able to supply me with Falvey's and some sorely needed catenary parts.

I almost by accident found a set of Williams Metroliners and purchased them. I have been trying to mold a engineers end, and have frustrated myself more than succeeded. Have casted and tried to make duplicates with minimal success. There must be a better answer, just have to find it.

Will post pix of Falveys when I receive them.

Trying to obtain side view drawings has been a total waste and loss.

Keep plugging away.

mikeg

Oh for a spell checker on forum!
RR Museum of Pa. has changed policy. Last time I published photos from them, it was permissible with mention of them in the caption. Now it seems they want $25 for each time a photo is published, and it is not clear whether that is $25 for each time it appears in a magazine, or for each time the magazine copy rolls off the press. It would be nice if they did not care about internet publishing, but I think I would check.

Harold Vollrath still allows free publication - what a nice guy, and a fellow hobbyist.
quote:
Originally posted by bob2:
RR Museum of Pa. has changed policy. Last time I published photos from them, it was permissible with mention of them in the caption. Now it seems they want $25 for each time a photo is published, and it is not clear whether that is $25 for each time it appears in a magazine, or for each time the magazine copy rolls off the press. It would be nice if they did not care about internet publishing, but I think I would check.

Harold Vollrath still allows free publication - what a nice guy, and a fellow hobbyist.


Nick Zmijewski is the one who sent drawings, no pictures. Am very appreciative, since every other avenue has been fruitless.

Scans are from 1970 Car Builders Cyclopedia.
If your scans are .PDF files, you may be able to capture them this way:

Using the 'snapshot' tool (version 8 or higher of Acrobat Reader), draw a marquee around the intended object to copy to the clipboard. Then open a new file in an imaging editing program such as PhotoShop. In most cases the new file will be the same size as what's copied to the clipboard (I know it is in PhotoShop), then paste the image into the new file, edit-resize as needed and save as a .JPG.

The snaphot tool captures at 72dpi, so enlarge the original if you want to then reduce size while increasing resolution, i.e: 300% enlargement to get 300 dpi resolution.

I am John Galt !

Chris

quote:
Originally posted by PRR Man:
If your scans are .PDF files, you may be able to capture them this way:

Using the 'snapshot' tool (version 8 or higher of Acrobat Reader), draw a marquee around the intended object to copy to the clipboard. Then open a new file in an imaging editing program such as PhotoShop. In most cases the new file will be the same size as what's copied to the clipboard (I know it is in PhotoShop), then paste the image into the new file, edit-resize as needed and save as a .JPG.

The snaphot tool captures at 72dpi, so enlarge the original if you want to then reduce size while increasing resolution, i.e: 300% enlargement to get 300 dpi resolution.


I do not have Photoshop and have "Access snapshot viewer", both Adobe and copied to Word do not open.

I have good resolution in Word version and can copy but "post a reply" does not allow me to paste. Does anyone know how to paste to "post a reply"?


mikeg
it doesn't have to be PhotoShop.
MS Paint, Photo Elements, or any image program should allow you to paste a copied image, which can then be saved as a .JPG, .TIF, or .BMP

'Paint' is an accessory that comes with versions of the Windows OS, beginning with Win97.

this Forum's image posting function does not, I believe, allow for Word .DOC or .DOCX files, as they are not image files, but 'documents'.

I am John Galt !

Chris

the simple way to add an image to a post is to create an album in the photo album section. once that's completed open the album, click 'detach image' right click on the URL up top in the pop-up image to copy it, then go to your post, click the image icon and paste the URL into the dialog line. your photo should now be inserted into your post.

I am John Galt !

Chris

Finally





I cannot believe the hoops to first obtain these drawing, then converting them so they could be posted on this forum.

They are close to being priceless.

With all the info I have and as soon as I receive Williams Metroliners, I should have enough to proceed.

A spell checker would be a nice addition to this program.

mikeg
Just a reminder that while the snacks and parlors had single arm pans, the full coaches had Stemmann [ I think I spelled that correctly, maybe one M ] pans that were 'diamond shaped but with a single arm on each side'. The original Jersey Arrows [ PC 100 class ] had em too. I don't know of an 0 ga source.

Also, a small but very visible detail: the cars with "The Fastest Phone in the East" [ the snacks and parlors ] had the white phone aerials on top.

Best regards, SZ

PS Due to catenary wave considerations, the cars on the NEC were operated in back to back pairs, with the trailing pan raised; there was a hard wire [ eg, bolted connections ] link between the two pans.
The pictures as posted are good but not great due to factors beyond my control.

Nevertheless due to input from many they are finally posted. Enjoy and if anyone needs better copies, please let me know and I will get them to you.

Forums are great way for many to share love of trains, not just PRR.
The shells are on their way to be milled.

Order is 4 coaches, 2 snack bar coaches, one parlor car.

Pantographs are in transit, does anyone know if each car had a pair or single pantograph. Williams has one but that is not the same as proof positive.

Remaining problem is operator end, have not succeeded in replicating them without major bubbles. Will try new mold and direction and hopefully success.

With details on interior can order seats from PSC


mikeg

How much were the Duddy pantographs, and when you recieve yours, any chance you could evaluate how much work it would be to adapt them to the Williams cars?

with regards to the molding attempts, are you cloning cab ends from an existing piece, or did you scratchbuild a pattern? If you're attempting to clone the Williams cab end, I think those may be wider than scale, since originally the Williams Metroliners were designed to accommodate Lionel Pullmor diesel trucks.

When you mentioned bubbles, are they occurring in the mold (I'm assuming silicone-rubber molds), or in the pieces you cast from it?

---PCJ

My YouTube videos

"Wait... Why am I rolling? Am I moving or are the trees moving? What'd you say about my brakes? Youtookoutmywhaaat?

Holy Cow I Can't Staaahp!!"

--MAD's Thomas the "Unstoppable" Tank engine

quote:
Originally posted by RailRide:
How much were the Duddy pantographs, and when you recieve yours, any chance you could evaluate how much work it would be to adapt them to the Williams cars?

I finally received the Falvey pantographs 5 sets. That is all ED had





They are very impressive and I will find usage for all 5 pairs. I suspect health issues and minimal stock, are problems, everything else was gone that I wanted, but I will try later and see if things are better.

with regards to the molding attempts, are you cloning cab ends from an existing piece, or did you scratchbuild a pattern? If you're attempting to clone the Williams cab end, I think those may be wider than scale, since otiginally the Williams Metroliners were designed to accomodate Lionel Pullmor diesel trucks.

When you mentioned bubbles, are they occurring in the mold (I'm assuming silicone-rubber molds), or in the pieces you cast from it?

The end I had received is most likely from Williams. The shells that are scale length, match the ends and appear similar to scale drawings. The end is bulky in shape, end and three sides. It is thin and light weight. I ordered more mold material and will try casting it standing and glued to one wall. When I tried modeling earlier I ended up with bubbles first inside then on outside of casting.



As you can see outside leaves much to be desired. I am hoping by casting in different direction I may have success.

I have contacted WBB parts and "not available try again in few months". This end right now is probably last major stumbling block. My aren't we optomistic.

Keep working and plugging along

mikeg
---PCJ
I am going to use the PRR trucks from GGD. How they compare to Atlas I do not know but if not completely correct they are close enough for me.

As a minor addendum, you know you are really getting to be a PIA when you notice Congo trucks on web site when magnified are SP Daylight trucks. Contacted Scott and assurances that the Congo will have PRR trucks.
I would second Richards comments. In O, the Atlas Horizon car trucks would be the closest. The Bachmann ones in HO are the most accurate outside of brass Metroliners I have seen and the first several years had beautiful sprung Faively pantographs. The trucks are also very close to the late production RDC trucks and similar to the ones found under the Atlas Horizon cars. The GSC trucks used under the Congo cars were not the came.

Jonathan

 

After all this, I forgot I have photos I took of the last intact Metroliner car in PA. Still in it's PRR / PC striping, it is the rare cafe car. I got the front with the gap in the pilot that would make a claw coupler fan proud, detail of the truck side frames and the rear, which so many photographers forget to document. Great set of cars. Too bad they didn't run as good as they looked for their era.





Jonathan

 

quote:
Originally posted by GG1 4877:
...
Too bad they didn't run as good as they looked for their era.
...


What was the issue? A couple of NRHS friends of mine and I rode them round trip from New Carroltown to Baltimore one day in the early '70s while out railfanning and I thought they were quite amazing. They could accelerate to 125 MPH in about a minute and rode great at that speed. We got to stand next to the operator the whole trip. Was one of the good days for me.

Richard
The biggest issue was their reliability. Typical government specification had the requirement of 160mph when modified Silverliners were doing 156 already in the mid 60's. Budd and the PRR rushed these into production without a whole lot of testing and it took most of 67 and 68 to get them into regular service.

They ran fairly well until just before the mid 70's and then went into the rebuild program. GG1's pulling Amfleet held the Metroliner schedules until they returned to service in 77 or so. By the early 80's the Metroliner cars were working the Philly the Harrisburg service and AEM7's with Amfleet cars were pulling Metroliner trains.

I saw the Metroliner cars twice as a child. The first time was at Metropark, NJ on a trip to DC circa 1977. We were riding an E60 pulled "local". The second time was outside of Paradise, PA in the early 80's after the rebuild.

These cars were certainly fast and ahead of their time, but ultimately the reliability lead to their demise. Too bad, these still look modern and sleek today.

Jonathan

 

For kicks and giggles, my Metroliner cars in O, HO and N from a few years back. The O ones are decidedly NOT 3RS!







This is the HO Bachmann version from the 70's:



And a close up of the way oversized truck N version from Bachmann in PC



N scale version converted to Cab control car and custom painted when I was a lot younger than I am now:

Jonathan

 

quote:
Originally posted by GG1 4877:
I am thinking the reversing headlight is one. Still looking for the other. I like challenges.


Installation of MU and HEP connections on the ends appears to be the other.


Yes, the MU cables [ no "HEP", since each car self contained ] in lieu of the electrical connections underneath an S-W coupler, were what immmediately struck me. And 'struck' was one, if not the, reason for the change: hitting a deer, say, at 110 mph did not do those pin connections a lot of good, resulting in interwire shorts or grounds.

I think the 'reverse' hdlt was always there, from memory. The other change might be the coupler, but it's hard to tell -- and anyway they usually ran with adapter knuckles mtd on the end cabs anyway, at least in the early days. Also, I thought the secondary suspension was an air bag rather than a coil spring, but perhaps my memory failed me again...

Best rgds, SZ
quote:
Originally posted by PRRTrainguy:



As you can see outside leaves much to be desired. I am hoping by casting in different direction I may have success.

I have contacted WBB parts and "not available try again in few months". This end right now is probably last major stumbling block. My aren't we optomistic.

Keep working and plugging along

mikeg


Wow, nasty. What material are you using for the mold itself, and from which direction is the resin being poured in from?

I'm thinking the best way to clone this part is with a two-piece mold, one for the inner face, and another forming the outside. nest one inside the other by stacking the molds, then pour the resin between them:


---PCJ

My YouTube videos

"Wait... Why am I rolling? Am I moving or are the trees moving? What'd you say about my brakes? Youtookoutmywhaaat?

Holy Cow I Can't Staaahp!!"

--MAD's Thomas the "Unstoppable" Tank engine

I used MictoMark mold materials with less than desirable results, partly because I had never done anything like this before And the unusual shape, namely end and three sides.

I ran out of material and have ordered more and will try in different configuration.

Williams replied this time, namely not going to happen. No more ends in parts.

I did notice the Lionel end of car model had a very good model of Metroliner end and contacted parts and received a strange reply, namely

"Here in the service department we don't sell any finished goods. There are several dealer who will break sets up. Check with C.P. Trains out of Crownpoint IN, and then there is Hobbyspeed.com. They might be able to assist you."

I will try contacting dealers as suggested but honestly doubt any dealer will dissasemble a product and sell me a part of a car.

The reason for pursuing this part if it fits is I will not have to figure out how to fill in extra window.

Stranger and stranger.


FWIW the video you posted did help markedly in explaining some of ways to CORRECTLY make a 2 part mold. Thank you

Contacted CPTrains and they expressed wonder that parts at Lionel referrs questions to them since they are not even a service center. Strange

Anyone have any idea how to get a straight answer from Lionel for a straight question. If not perhaps buying complete car is only answer, If so who has it

mikeg
In looking at the sample end castings, it seems as though air pockets got trapped inside the mold.

This is a problem even with one part, flat molds sometimes, let alone two part molds.

It could be also that the resin is setting up too fast in the mold, becoming thicker and not allowing entrapped air to rise out of it.

Somehow, relief holes need to be put into the mold to let any the air trapped inside escape during the pour.

Any rods or whiskers on the casting from those relief holes can be cut off and smoothed down later.

Ed Bommer
Thank you for help RailRide and Ed, I really appreciate it and as soon as I can actually cast an end that looks decent I will post it.

On three rail O Gauge trains under Budd Metroliner topic, I have posted pix of newly milled, not really scale, 85 ft Metroliner shells, namely parlor, snack coach and coach.

Eventually will be able to apply Ed Duddy's Falveys to them.

mikeg
I should have also linked you to a company whose products I have used, Alumilite.

One of their tutorials applies particularly well to your application: Making a Slot Car mold (which also links to the procedure for casting a slot car body from the resulting mold). There's also a tutorial on Squish Molding, and Molding a Taillight.

In the second tutorial, the vent holes that allow excess resin to rise out of the upper mold half (which would be the carbody-facing side of the casting in your case) as it's pressed into the lower could be the rear-ward extensions that the chassis screws go through.

By the way, do you have hi-res versions of the HoD pantograph photos? (particularly slightly overhead side views and closeups of the arm assemblies) If Duddy doesn't have anymore, I may need photo references to scratchbuild my own, most likely from brass rod/tubing/sheet. My email is in my profile.

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Hi all,

 

I just found this topic.  I am the owner of the company who was planning the O scale Budd Silverliner MU car kit in conjunction with the Cherry Valley club a couple of years ago.  Unfortunately, that project was dropped because of a lack of interest and the fact that the CAd company that did the work for us on the body lost the CAD file.  Since we are now doing our own CAD, it's now a future project to do it over again.

 

A couple of things:

 

I myself have been interested in the Metroliner MUs since I was a kid, and have plenty of documentation on the cars, including paint chips from the Capital-liner scheme of the 1980s on the rebuilt cars, Amtrak maintenance guides, operator's manuals, and notes I made myself.  I was fortunate to ride them in their last self-powered days in 1987. 

 

I just today got ahold of three of the old Clark Benson O scale extruded aluminim Amfleet car kits.  I was looking at them and thought immediately about converting one into a Metroliner MU.  (Clark Benson did make Metroliner MU kits, but try to find one!)  The CB kits were made using Williams Amfleet extrusions cut to full length and injected plastic ends, and he made his own hardwood floors and cast-metal Pioneer III trucks and underbody.  The kits look decent when built from the photos I have seen of them, but I can see making all-new tooling for trucks (power and dummy) and underbody to match the Metroliners as built.  I figured the Williams ends and pantograph would work, with a little re-milling of the CB body shell at the cab end to accomodate the cab piece and allow for its length.  I am looking at doing cars for 2-rail operation.  If it works, and if I actually find the time for this project, I will try to keep everyone posted.

 

Also, if there is any interest at all in a resin body kit for the (Budd) Silverliner in O scale, please let me know. 

 

Thanks,

 

Mike Bartel

IHP

 

I may have missed the reference, and as a three-rail non-scale guy, please excuse my intrusion, but did you consider the Elliot Welz models in your search for ends?  Would they be of any use to you in your project?  I have several sets of them and would be willing to lend them for research or copying, etc.

Arthur P. Bloom TCA 86-23906 "I love the smell of smoke pellets in the morning!"

Originally Posted by Arthur P. Bloom:

I may have missed the reference, and as a three-rail non-scale guy, please excuse my intrusion, but did you consider the Elliot Welz models in your search for ends?  Would they be of any use to you in your project?  I have several sets of them and would be willing to lend them for research or copying, etc.

 

Thanks, Arthur, no intrusion at all.  I am looking at the Williams cars and their parts because that's what the Benson models were based on, and everything will fit.  I don't have any of the Welz models or parts for comparison, but I always liked their cab ends more, compared to the Williams models.  The Williams 'B' Ends that come with these Amfleet kits are actually Metroliner ends, and similar in detail and appearance to the Bachmann HO ends, oddly enough. 

 

I got two coach kits and one dinette kit, and I'm thinking of using one coach and the dinette for this project.  A 2-car MU set would result: one coach and one food service car.  I'd have the extra coach in reserve in case I ever decided to build a third car.

 

Another idea I had for trucks was to use the GSI trucks from the Atlas Horizon cars (the Amtrak versions).  They are nearly identical to the Metroliner trucks.  I'll make new underbody from CAD/3D printing, and build a power truck.  I can see myself building a Stemman pantograph for the coach, and I could probably use the Faively pan from a Williams or Welz unit on the food service car.

This Metroliner project is mostly just for me. I have no intention of producing O scale kits myself at this time.  I'd just like to get a couple of cars for operation now and then.  I don't do enough projects for pleasure these days.

 

Mike Bartel

IHP

 

Originally Posted by PRRTrainguy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PRRTrainguy:
Parts arrived



Shell is scale length, non engineer end is plastic and very nice. The operator end is rough and has too many windows and doors are not correct. 

That cab end might be from the aborted Clark Benson SPV-2000 model. Thus, not ony does it have too many windows, it's not the correct profile for the Metroliner end.  The Metroliner and SPV fiberglass ends were NOT the same, they were different.  I saw a photo of the prototype for the CB model about ten years ago and it looked like an SPV, but was otherwise a little rough.  I know the SPV very well, having produced an HO resin kit version back in 1996.  You're probably better off finding an extra Williams or Welz end for your project.  That blind end is correct for the Metroliner, however, so that's a plus. 

 

Mike Bartel


 

I have been waiting for Mike Bartel to finish the ends all this time.  I sent him a pair of both ends a looooong time ago to use as a starting point; but no product.  Does anyone know where I can obtain 7 operator ends? 

 

frustrated metroliner.

 

Dining room table is covered with metroliner parts, covered with dust, waiting.

 

mikeg

 

 

 

Originally Posted by PRRTrainguy:

mike bartel has finished ends. 

 

do not have item. but do have pix.  much better than original from williams, which was not prototypical

 

i am sure mike would be happy to supply anyone who needs, desires, wants them.

 

mikeg

003

Thanks, Mikeg! 

 

IHP also has the following items available for O scalers wishing to model PRR Budd Silverliner MU cars:

 

Budd Silverliner Ends

Budd Silverliner Roof Details

Budd Silverliner Stepwells

 

 

The ends are intended for kitbashers and are optimised for O31 type carbodies and dimensions.  (Originally, the Williams plastic passenger car roofs were to be used in modeling these cars with scratchbuilt sides, so they are made to the width of the Williams cars.)

 

You can order direct from IHP's website, and we will soon have them on our eBay store as well.

 

IHP is preparing to dump resin casting as our primary means of model production, so the Metroliner ends will only be available for a short time this year only.   If anyone requires other O scale parts for these models, you may contact us about CAD design and 3D printing of parts for them.  We may be able to produce them as custom projects for your modeling.

 

Thanks!

 

Mike Bartel

IHP

Hi all,

 

Budd Silverliner MU commuter car, PRR version (smaller end windows). Guess it was inevitable that we try this! We'll officially re-enter O scale if you all like the results of this effort. 

Body shell available

And the stepwells for it, available separately

 

Before anyone balks at the price, it's 3D printing a BIG shell for a small market for it, and is actually done in one of the less expensive processes.  WSF is used mainly because it can print objects as large as this (21.25" body length between buffers). 

If people like this body shell, we'll upload the underbody for it, and perhaps do the Reading version as well.  Oh yes, roof details for the Budd cars are already available elsewhere on the Shapeways page as well.

Hope this will help some of you in your O scale electric commuter modeling.  If it does well, we'll do other MU types.

Thanks!

Mike Bartel IHP

Originally Posted by Mike@IHP:
Originally Posted by PRRTrainguy:
Thanks, Mikeg! 

 

IHP also has the following items available for O scalers wishing to model PRR Budd Silverliner MU cars:

 

Budd Silverliner Stepwells

http://www.shapeways.com/model/857608

 

...

Thanks!

 

Mike Bartel

IHP
http://ihphobby.tripod.com

www.shapeways.com/shops/ihphobby 

What's the difference between the two different types of step wells?  Looks like they would be great for fixing the pretty sad stepwells on the Atlas Horizon cars. 

If you wanted to try using the stepwells on the Atlas cars, use the ones marked 1:48 scale.  They are scaled correctly for the car width. 

 

The Comet stepwells are different, however.  It might be better to just do specific replacement stepwells for them.  If someone were to give me a 'launch order', I could do CAD for them and upload it to Shapeways. 

 

Mike Bartel

IHP

Originally Posted by Mike@IHP:

If you wanted to try using the stepwells on the Atlas cars, use the ones marked 1:48 scale.  They are scaled correctly for the car width. 

 

The Comet stepwells are different, however.  It might be better to just do specific replacement stepwells for them.  If someone were to give me a 'launch order', I could do CAD for them and upload it to Shapeways. 

 

Mike Bartel

IHP

Thanks!

 

Not sure there is sufficient market to make it worthwhile.  The entire underbody of those cars could use some help.  I'll check out your 1:48 steps vs the horizon cars and see where the mismatches are.

Originally Posted by PRRTrainguy:
Originally Posted by prrhorseshoecurve:

the trucks for silverliners are available, not available, close enough to?

 

does anyone know the answer?

 

mikeg

 

I would start from MTH lossenge pax car trucks.

lossenge pax

 

what are these?

 

mikeg

Think the English translation (!) is 'lozenge-shaped passenger cars', i.e. the octagonal-shaped UTDC/Bombardier bilevel commuter cars originally operated by GO Transit and now operated by several agencies.  Their trucks might work, as they are inboard-bearing types.  The IB-types from the Atlas Comet cars might also work. Other than that, if you wanted the exact trucks, they'd have to be custom-made in zinc.  Possible but expensive.

 

Mike Bartel

IHP

Think the English translation (!) is 'lozenge-shaped passenger cars', i.e. the octagonal-shaped UTDC/Bombardier bilevel commuter cars originally operated by GO Transit and now operated by several agencies.  Their trucks might work, as they are inboard-bearing types.  The IB-types from the Atlas Comet cars might also work. Other than that, if you wanted the exact trucks, they'd have to be custom-made in zinc.  Possible but expensive.

 

Mike Bartel

IHP

ihanks for translation.  i will explore these sources and see what happens.

 

mikeg

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