The pictures as posted are good but not great due to factors beyond my control.

Nevertheless due to input from many they are finally posted. Enjoy and if anyone needs better copies, please let me know and I will get them to you.

Forums are great way for many to share love of trains, not just PRR.
The shells are on their way to be milled.

Order is 4 coaches, 2 snack bar coaches, one parlor car.

Pantographs are in transit, does anyone know if each car had a pair or single pantograph. Williams has one but that is not the same as proof positive.

Remaining problem is operator end, have not succeeded in replicating them without major bubbles. Will try new mold and direction and hopefully success.

With details on interior can order seats from PSC


mikeg

How much were the Duddy pantographs, and when you recieve yours, any chance you could evaluate how much work it would be to adapt them to the Williams cars?

with regards to the molding attempts, are you cloning cab ends from an existing piece, or did you scratchbuild a pattern? If you're attempting to clone the Williams cab end, I think those may be wider than scale, since originally the Williams Metroliners were designed to accommodate Lionel Pullmor diesel trucks.

When you mentioned bubbles, are they occurring in the mold (I'm assuming silicone-rubber molds), or in the pieces you cast from it?

---PCJ

My YouTube videos

"Wait... Why am I rolling? Am I moving or are the trees moving? What'd you say about my brakes? Youtookoutmywhaaat?

Holy Cow I Can't Staaahp!!"

--MAD's Thomas the "Unstoppable" Tank engine

quote:
Originally posted by RailRide:
How much were the Duddy pantographs, and when you recieve yours, any chance you could evaluate how much work it would be to adapt them to the Williams cars?

I finally received the Falvey pantographs 5 sets. That is all ED had





They are very impressive and I will find usage for all 5 pairs. I suspect health issues and minimal stock, are problems, everything else was gone that I wanted, but I will try later and see if things are better.

with regards to the molding attempts, are you cloning cab ends from an existing piece, or did you scratchbuild a pattern? If you're attempting to clone the Williams cab end, I think those may be wider than scale, since otiginally the Williams Metroliners were designed to accomodate Lionel Pullmor diesel trucks.

When you mentioned bubbles, are they occurring in the mold (I'm assuming silicone-rubber molds), or in the pieces you cast from it?

The end I had received is most likely from Williams. The shells that are scale length, match the ends and appear similar to scale drawings. The end is bulky in shape, end and three sides. It is thin and light weight. I ordered more mold material and will try casting it standing and glued to one wall. When I tried modeling earlier I ended up with bubbles first inside then on outside of casting.



As you can see outside leaves much to be desired. I am hoping by casting in different direction I may have success.

I have contacted WBB parts and "not available try again in few months". This end right now is probably last major stumbling block. My aren't we optomistic.

Keep working and plugging along

mikeg
---PCJ
I am going to use the PRR trucks from GGD. How they compare to Atlas I do not know but if not completely correct they are close enough for me.

As a minor addendum, you know you are really getting to be a PIA when you notice Congo trucks on web site when magnified are SP Daylight trucks. Contacted Scott and assurances that the Congo will have PRR trucks.
I would second Richards comments. In O, the Atlas Horizon car trucks would be the closest. The Bachmann ones in HO are the most accurate outside of brass Metroliners I have seen and the first several years had beautiful sprung Faively pantographs. The trucks are also very close to the late production RDC trucks and similar to the ones found under the Atlas Horizon cars. The GSC trucks used under the Congo cars were not the came.

Jonathan

 

After all this, I forgot I have photos I took of the last intact Metroliner car in PA. Still in it's PRR / PC striping, it is the rare cafe car. I got the front with the gap in the pilot that would make a claw coupler fan proud, detail of the truck side frames and the rear, which so many photographers forget to document. Great set of cars. Too bad they didn't run as good as they looked for their era.





Jonathan

 

quote:
Originally posted by GG1 4877:
...
Too bad they didn't run as good as they looked for their era.
...


What was the issue? A couple of NRHS friends of mine and I rode them round trip from New Carroltown to Baltimore one day in the early '70s while out railfanning and I thought they were quite amazing. They could accelerate to 125 MPH in about a minute and rode great at that speed. We got to stand next to the operator the whole trip. Was one of the good days for me.

Richard
The biggest issue was their reliability. Typical government specification had the requirement of 160mph when modified Silverliners were doing 156 already in the mid 60's. Budd and the PRR rushed these into production without a whole lot of testing and it took most of 67 and 68 to get them into regular service.

They ran fairly well until just before the mid 70's and then went into the rebuild program. GG1's pulling Amfleet held the Metroliner schedules until they returned to service in 77 or so. By the early 80's the Metroliner cars were working the Philly the Harrisburg service and AEM7's with Amfleet cars were pulling Metroliner trains.

I saw the Metroliner cars twice as a child. The first time was at Metropark, NJ on a trip to DC circa 1977. We were riding an E60 pulled "local". The second time was outside of Paradise, PA in the early 80's after the rebuild.

These cars were certainly fast and ahead of their time, but ultimately the reliability lead to their demise. Too bad, these still look modern and sleek today.

Jonathan

 

For kicks and giggles, my Metroliner cars in O, HO and N from a few years back. The O ones are decidedly NOT 3RS!







This is the HO Bachmann version from the 70's:



And a close up of the way oversized truck N version from Bachmann in PC



N scale version converted to Cab control car and custom painted when I was a lot younger than I am now:

Jonathan

 

quote:
Originally posted by GG1 4877:
I am thinking the reversing headlight is one. Still looking for the other. I like challenges.


Installation of MU and HEP connections on the ends appears to be the other.


Yes, the MU cables [ no "HEP", since each car self contained ] in lieu of the electrical connections underneath an S-W coupler, were what immmediately struck me. And 'struck' was one, if not the, reason for the change: hitting a deer, say, at 110 mph did not do those pin connections a lot of good, resulting in interwire shorts or grounds.

I think the 'reverse' hdlt was always there, from memory. The other change might be the coupler, but it's hard to tell -- and anyway they usually ran with adapter knuckles mtd on the end cabs anyway, at least in the early days. Also, I thought the secondary suspension was an air bag rather than a coil spring, but perhaps my memory failed me again...

Best rgds, SZ
quote:
Originally posted by PRRTrainguy:



As you can see outside leaves much to be desired. I am hoping by casting in different direction I may have success.

I have contacted WBB parts and "not available try again in few months". This end right now is probably last major stumbling block. My aren't we optomistic.

Keep working and plugging along

mikeg


Wow, nasty. What material are you using for the mold itself, and from which direction is the resin being poured in from?

I'm thinking the best way to clone this part is with a two-piece mold, one for the inner face, and another forming the outside. nest one inside the other by stacking the molds, then pour the resin between them:


---PCJ

My YouTube videos

"Wait... Why am I rolling? Am I moving or are the trees moving? What'd you say about my brakes? Youtookoutmywhaaat?

Holy Cow I Can't Staaahp!!"

--MAD's Thomas the "Unstoppable" Tank engine

I used MictoMark mold materials with less than desirable results, partly because I had never done anything like this before And the unusual shape, namely end and three sides.

I ran out of material and have ordered more and will try in different configuration.

Williams replied this time, namely not going to happen. No more ends in parts.

I did notice the Lionel end of car model had a very good model of Metroliner end and contacted parts and received a strange reply, namely

"Here in the service department we don't sell any finished goods. There are several dealer who will break sets up. Check with C.P. Trains out of Crownpoint IN, and then there is Hobbyspeed.com. They might be able to assist you."

I will try contacting dealers as suggested but honestly doubt any dealer will dissasemble a product and sell me a part of a car.

The reason for pursuing this part if it fits is I will not have to figure out how to fill in extra window.

Stranger and stranger.


FWIW the video you posted did help markedly in explaining some of ways to CORRECTLY make a 2 part mold. Thank you

Contacted CPTrains and they expressed wonder that parts at Lionel referrs questions to them since they are not even a service center. Strange

Anyone have any idea how to get a straight answer from Lionel for a straight question. If not perhaps buying complete car is only answer, If so who has it

mikeg
In looking at the sample end castings, it seems as though air pockets got trapped inside the mold.

This is a problem even with one part, flat molds sometimes, let alone two part molds.

It could be also that the resin is setting up too fast in the mold, becoming thicker and not allowing entrapped air to rise out of it.

Somehow, relief holes need to be put into the mold to let any the air trapped inside escape during the pour.

Any rods or whiskers on the casting from those relief holes can be cut off and smoothed down later.

Ed Bommer
Thank you for help RailRide and Ed, I really appreciate it and as soon as I can actually cast an end that looks decent I will post it.

On three rail O Gauge trains under Budd Metroliner topic, I have posted pix of newly milled, not really scale, 85 ft Metroliner shells, namely parlor, snack coach and coach.

Eventually will be able to apply Ed Duddy's Falveys to them.

mikeg
I should have also linked you to a company whose products I have used, Alumilite.

One of their tutorials applies particularly well to your application: Making a Slot Car mold (which also links to the procedure for casting a slot car body from the resulting mold). There's also a tutorial on Squish Molding, and Molding a Taillight.

In the second tutorial, the vent holes that allow excess resin to rise out of the upper mold half (which would be the carbody-facing side of the casting in your case) as it's pressed into the lower could be the rear-ward extensions that the chassis screws go through.

By the way, do you have hi-res versions of the HoD pantograph photos? (particularly slightly overhead side views and closeups of the arm assemblies) If Duddy doesn't have anymore, I may need photo references to scratchbuild my own, most likely from brass rod/tubing/sheet. My email is in my profile.

---PCJ

My YouTube videos

"Wait... Why am I rolling? Am I moving or are the trees moving? What'd you say about my brakes? Youtookoutmywhaaat?

Holy Cow I Can't Staaahp!!"

--MAD's Thomas the "Unstoppable" Tank engine

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