PS/3 conventional locked in forward (Solved)

GRJ, I had the same problem with a PS3 PRR MU.  As soon as track power was applied, it was off like a shot.  With the TIU turned off (used a fixed circuit) to preclude a DCS signal,  I brought the power up slowly to about 12+/- volts, and held the loco with one hand, while doing a conventional reset (W+5Bells).  It cleared the problem.

Suggest you re-try the conventional reset with DCS turned off.

I'm doing the conventional reset with a Z4000, the TIU is not connected or powered in any way.  With the locomotive running, I've been unable to get the reset to take, and I've probably tried 20 times.  Since it works on another PS/3 locomotive, I'm assuming my timing is proper.

Keep the voltage around 10-12V.  Closer to 10V.  G

Interesting !  I've had good luck unlocking a  proto-2 conventional  directional lock with a command factory reset and a good battery .  I'm assuming proto-3 is different however  can you change the engine's ID in command mode and have it stick after a power down  Maybe it's capacitor related since there's no battery?

I was using 12V, let me try it lower.

No joy.  I tried at 10V, 9V, and even 8V.  I notice that the engine doesn't recognize the bell button at 8 or 9V, you can hold it as long as you like.  However, I did it a few times anyway.  I've never had so much of a problem resetting one, don't know what the deal is.

Too bad I can't do it with automation like the PS/1 stuff on the Z4000.

Gregg, the engine accepts a new ID and it sticks, also it goes through a full shutdown sequence when I power it off.

It seems like certain PS3 releases need a reset as delivered. Not the very first or even the newest just some in between? They seem to have different issues from the factory that require a reset to perform as listed.

That would be fine Joe if the reset would take!

Reload sound file.  If that doesn't do it maybe a hardware issue effecting conventional and not DCS.  Though I am only guessing on this one.  G

Sound file is probably a good idea, do you think I should also reload the chain file?

John

I had the same issue with my premier GP30 with PS2 3v. The issue turned out to be the wiring. The ninny from the factory zip tied the wiring so tight, that the connectors where being pulled sideways. I unplugged all the connectors and also found bent pins. The fix was simple. I made sure all the wires were snug in the connectors ( found some lose ones) and straightened the pins. Also make sure the screw to the ground on the trucks are tight and make sure the loop connector at the truck is not broken. The lose connections was preventing the board from receiving a steady watch dog signal.

I think this is a different issue.  It works perfectly in command, all functions.  It's just locked into forward in conventional, and nothing I do seems to beat it into submission.

When I first put the engine on the track it loaded right into DCS. as soon as I moved it forward it took of like a like rabit with no control with DCS. I did have control in speed control using my transformer but did not respond to the horn and bell buttons on my Z4000. It also would not change directions( forward only). I did finally managed to do a factory reset, but that didn't help. A fully charge battery didn't help either since the first thing I did was put the engine on the charger. Even then after I replaced the battery with a another fully charged battery that didn't help. I do know after I troubleshoot the wiring the problem went away. After I had full control I did another factory reset. Don't you just love new engines.

Can you trigger ANY of the w+b features...such as firing the coupler b-w-w?

Relative to the other PS3 engine did the Whistle and Bell features have the same response time?

Can you clip alligator jumpers or whatever to the power roller and chassis frame so that you can try the button sequence with a solid/clean power connection?  I don't know the wiring of that engine but I suppose if it has a separate motor-only connector you could temporarily pull that.

Finally, do you have a chopped-sine Z-controller (vs. a pure sine Z-4000)?  I've noticed the DC offset voltages generated by the former can be larger possibly making it easier to detect.

Seems there's a hardware issue so my suggestion is to unlock it from conventional forward by any means possible...and then figure out what to do.

I finally got it unlocked from forward.  I took Stan's advice and tried a Z-Controller and brick.  I also found out that it has to be going less than 10 scale MPH for the direction unlock to work.  Even though I tried at low voltages with the Z4000, apparently either the DC offsets weren't getting through or the speed was still too high.  Jeff at MTH suggested turning it down until the engine stalls in conventional.  I slowed it down to where it was barely moving, and the first try it took the reset.

Problem solved, and I learned something.  I do so little in conventional mode that it's like a new proving ground for me.

Thanks all for the advice, I think Stan's idea of the transformer change may have tipped the balance.  I'm thinking of checking the two on a 'scope as I'm now curious what DC offsets each transformer produces at low voltage.  One issue is the low current required at low speed, that may affect the DC offset as well.

John, We all learned something.

Yep, it's always an education when you work on these.

GRJ, but so you can still have some confusion, I did the reset using the Z4000.  But thanks to GHA, the train was not moving.

[GHA=giant hand action]

No confusion, I suspect this won't be a problem next time.

Nice job gunrunner, (and everyone else) We should have  a section on file  for all these weird dcs happenings .  

I was at the grandkids and they told me neither of their trains would run. It's been so long that even I forgot. The fix, was to turn down the Z1000 handle very, very low, then push the direction button.

 I kept trying different ways until I got them to come out of neutral. Nothing else worked.

I am surprised it did not work with Z-4000.  It does have to go slow which is why I said closer to 10V.

There is a fault that can happen to the Z-4000 buttons.  There is a cap fix to it.  Don't know if you have an issue with yours.

I always start off testing in conventional with Z-4000.  Easy to see amps, do the conventional reset, and prove the board functions.  Then I move to DCS.   G

George, don't know what was going on with the Z4000, it does do the whistle and bell in conventional at above around 10-11 volts, so the buttons are sort of working.  I am pretty sure I had it going slow enough with the Z4000, but obviously something is different.  The Z4000 was new direct from MTH in 2013.  I tried the reset as low as 8 volts on the Z4000, still no joy.  It worked so quickly on the Z500 set that I was really surprised.  What is the cap fix for the Z4000, was that in ASC notes?

Just another data point...

If you are still accumulating data points, if you put both of PS3 engines on the test track with Z4000 do they respond identically to the b-w sequences?  I still think there's the outstanding issue of why one PS/3 engine works while another does not (with a Z4000).

John, good post.  Great advice from the guys.  Well done.

Marty, it's a bad day when you don't learn something.

John, I am always up for learning.  I have a small list of required reading from posters.  You are on my list.

Marty, I think I'll learn more about DCS from you than you will from me.

You guys sound like kissing cousins. 

John there are some notes Jeff can send, but doesn't sound like your Z is an issue, being new.

My buttons are so worn, from all the testing, I might as well order a new control board soon.  Just in anticipation of the failure.   G

I'm not sure why the Z4000 didn't do the reset, but I was getting a bit annoyed that it wasn't working, that's for sure.  When the Z1000 did it the first time, I was a bit surprised, but I'm not complaining.

excellent troubleshooting Guys, boy it appears that some PS 3 engines are going to be quite a challenge for even what use to be a easy conventional reset. ARE we all ready for the challenge?It's a good thing we can all put our heads together and think out logically to an end conclusion!Great job, I' m sure this type of PS 3 problems will plague us also into the future!

Alan






















GREAT job! All

Alan