PS1 Operation Help

I'm guessing you are using the DCS remote to control the track voltage? It's possible the loco is stuck in neutral, the clanks you describe sound about right

I'm using the Z4000 handle and buttons. I don't believe the remote will do anything since I have this channel set as fixed.

"Lionel for Less" on youtube describes a very similar situation here;

Thanks, I will give it a try tomorrow.  I was missing at least one step in the sequence.

Be sure to let the engine sit for one minute to let the BCR fully charge before trying to get the engine to run.  This is necessary before the engine will respond to any commands.  I set my PS1 to 10 volts, wait one minute, press the direction button, and off she goes.  If you are doing this with the BCR charged, then there is another issue to be considered.

Well I made sure the BCR was fully charged, then followed the steps in the video for a reset 18 using my Z4000.  The engine will not do a reset (no air release sounds and no 3clanks\3clinks.  I believe the steps to be:

1 - put Z4000 in Program mode using black button; 2 - scroll to number in 18 in volts display; 3 - select using yellow bell button then press\hold white button. I then get 1 clank and no bells, release white button. Then the Z4000 display that shows PG starts counting up from zero and stops at 18 then reverts back to PG. Engine is making engine sounds and light is on. When I take it out of Program mode the engine will go through shut down sequence.

Wondering if the board "software" is scrambled or if there is something else I can try.

PS1 troubleshooting charts attached and this info i had.

Symptom

#1 – Engine starts up and reports three clank sounds

 Affected Engines ******** All PS-1 engines

 Occurs when the operator attempts to move the engine by using the direction button or by turning the throttle off and on again in order to reverse direction. The low battery condition causes the memory to become scrambled. The engine reports the problem with three clank sounds.

Fix :    The memory chip must be re-programmed by MTH or an authorized service center.

#2 – Engine starts up and does not move

       - PS-1 engines produced in 1995/1996

The low battery condition causes the software to de-select the engine and it never leaves the RESET position.

Requires installation of a new memory chip containing a software update which prevents

the problem from reccuring

Mort

Thanks Mort for the information. I do not get the three clank sounds at startup (two clanks then engine startup and idle with lights on).  My engine is a 20-2152-1 that says delivered in Oct '97 so could be it was made earlier. It definitely seems stuck in RESET. How would you go about getting a new memory chip if needed.

I might have to call MTH service to see if they have other suggestions.

The L&N and Santa Fe Premier F3 units with Protosounds 1 were units in which the chip could be "scrambled.". Before you go looking for a reset kit please try the following: Put the power AA units on the track along with either a lighted caboose or an illuminated passenger car. Now try to cycle the engine with the Z4000. Sometimes, the transformer doesn't go to 0.0 volts between cycles and thus the engine can't come out of reset. If this procedure fails, don't worry. The reset procedure is pretty simple, but you have to have the reset kit. Your "chip" isn't damaged or broken, it is merely "upset." The premier Shay, Hudson and Big Boy as well as the SF and L&N F3 units were about all of the Premier Protosounds 1 engines that had this issue. Most of the problem engines were in the Railking line. I have several Proto 1 engines that I have had since the late 90's. They run and sound great. The premier engines have Pittman motors (made in America) and the engines were made in South Korea not China. If you have questions please email me at milt@paiger.org. Be patient, all will work out fine.

Our grandsons PS1 engines do this. They have upgraded batteries (MTH green) inside. They will just keep playing the 2 clanks until the batteries are charged fully and things are perfect before they'll run.

 One of the engines is now kept at my house. It gets run more often and doesn't do this as much. Anytime it sits for too long, it goes back into this picky mode. I can't help but think that's what you're seeing. The BCR might be charged but maybe not fully? All of a sudden after several attempts, our engines will run. After that, they run good until left alone for long periods.

 I have left them on powered track and gone upstairs to watch TV. I return down and they run! I'd better go try his engine again now. It has been a few months of quarantine!

OK I just went down and played with the PS1 844. It finally ran after around ten minutes on powered track up at 18 volts. I lowered the handle several times on the Z4000 to off, and just got 2 clanks when I brought the handle back up. I finally got it to go forward when I lowered the handle to around 8 or 9 volts and held the red direction button for just the right timing.

 The interesting thing is that it ran forward and backward after that. It then ran onto the powered siding that goes to channel 2 variable (set to fixed) on the TIU. No matter how I played with the power, the engine just kept giving 2 clanks. I noticed that the power that came on, was delayed a bit. So the light connect to the output of channel 2 variable, gave me a clue that the output is delayed. If I wanted to run on that siding, I believe I'd have to take the TIU channel out of the loop!

or set it back to variable?

You stated,

1 - put Z4000 in Program mode using black button; 2 - scroll to number in 18 in volts display; 3 - select using yellow bell button then press\hold white button. I then get 1 clank and no bells, release white button. Then the Z4000 display that shows PG starts counting up from zero and stops at 18 then reverts back to PG. Engine is making engine sounds and light is on. When I take it out of Program mode the engine will go through shut down sequence.

I believe you are doing the reset 18 slightly out of order.  1 and 2 are OK.  Step 3 should be press the yellow button and release.  The Z4000 will now pulse the track 18 times and THEN you should hear the 3 clanks and 3 clinks.  If you get the clanks and clinks, then press the white button and release, you should hear a somewhat garbled bell sound.  Press the white button again, the bell should be clearer.  Now press the PG button and advance the Z4000 throttle handle and the engine should move forward locking in the reset.  This all should be done bypassing the TIU.  If this does not work, the engine could be stuck in neutral which reset 18 sometimes doesn't fix.  You would have to perform the direction lock sequence, the number escapes me at the moment.

Hope this helps.

I'll give these suggestions a try later today. 

They are a nice looking set. Maybe I should sell them to someone who is more familiar with the peculiarities and regularly runs conventional. 

I stayed out of this until now thinking you would get this.  First, the specific sounds and reactions are important.  Good battery.

Power it up with Z-4000 only on test track.  Let it start up.  Sound get 2 dings and then idle sounds.  Turn off power.  Does it play shutdown sounds for 5-8 seconds? 

If so power back up and let it start.  Raise power to 14V and lower to about 9V and back up to 14V.  Should here it enter reset #1 with one Clink.  Do it again.  Should get 2 clinks.  If you do not hear it enter reset 2.  The board is stuck in reset #1 and has a memory ID error.  I can reprogram the chip to remove the memory error.

This is the error you get when you cycle power to get it to move and it goes back in to a restart sequence with 2 dings a gain.

I recommend you do the manual process to figure this out, not the auto mode and not thru a TIU.  Just to simplify the process and make sure no other errors.  G

PS, that chart has errors.  I have never seen a permanently damaged board from a battery fault.

3 clanks is  scrambled memory issue, but also means a software conflict.  That is the problem MTH made the "Make PS" kit/chip for.  Works on the board when original chip is used. 

Occasionally, you can also get this when a chip has been swapped between boards but is not correct for top board software.  The symptom here is a startup sequence followed 3 clanks.  G

Thanks George. I reverified a good battery with startup and shutdown performing as you described. With the BCR there's about a 6 second shutdown. I then followed your steps and get 1 clink but when doing again I do not get 2 clinks just as you described. Guessing it has the memory ID issue. 

George could you send me an email on specifics such as do I need to send whole set, just powered unit, or maybe the board and cost. 

In mean time I'm going to put in a new fully charged green battery to see if any different performance. This would be a second different battery so not expecting anything different. 

Ken, Remember to keep the voltage below 10 volts when you take it out of reset. The sequence will not change if you are above 10 volts. Did you put a lighted car behind the engine?

did you take the TIU out of the power chain?

Joe, Yes I tried it with direct hookup to transformer with both a BCR and a green battery. I left each on with 15V for ten minutes before I tried the reset. I consistently get the result that George describes as a memory ID issue.  I tried some similar to you in raising and lowering the throttle and pushing direction button to no avail.

One thing I am unclear about is the cause of this in the first place. These are engines I obtained from a friend who I believe never tried to run them for the 10 years he had them. Don't know the history before then but does appear to have some minor usage. Before I ever put power to these, I replaced the white battery with a BCR and normal lube/oil.

Assuming I get this fixed, I don't want to have this happen again so trying to understand what not to do in the future.

I did also put two lighted passenger cars on the track. Using the Z4000 in Program mode the passenger cars would pulse several times then no clanks or clinks; just engine idle. Didn't matter which reset number.

Give Matt a call at Sommerfelds Trains in Butler, WI. He is the best MTH mechanic I know of. His number is 262-783-7797. 

Ken, answered your e-mail.  That is classic for the memory ID conflict.  G