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RJR posted:

Problem is that the 9-volt PS2s boards are near the end of their lives.  If it goes, a BCR is expensive way to ornament a shelf.

So even with the BCR being fully brought up to charge, the older PS 2.0 boards still die?  What exactly happens in most cases to the board when it goes?  I have several older PS 2.0 engines and I would like to try the BCRs.

I've seen several failure modes that seem to comprise a significant portion of the "sudden death" of 5V boards, though certainly not all of them.  One is they just do nothing and draw no current.  The other is they're a dead short and immediately trip the breaker.  Given the construction of the board, it's very difficult to get to the components that are the likely failure candidates, so they're normally "toast" when that happens.

Bad batteries have never really damaged a PS-1 board.  Just can cause a software scramble, which can occur with a BCR if you forget to let it charge fully and try a direction change when it is only at 3-5Volts.  Only about 1 % of the PS-1 boards I have worked on had a battery related hardware fault.  Usually motor over current can burn a trace, or rectifier diodes go bad.

I am not convinced bad batteries kill PS-2 5V boards either.  I have seen plenty with old batteries that still start up and run fine once the battery is replaced.

There are rectifier diodes that short, a power fet that can short, processor can go bad.  It is old and complex, but as John stated plenty still run fine regardless of whether they were early Rev G or Later Rev K boards.  But there are some models that that seem to have a much higher failure rate, Like the FEF Northern, and the r17 Redbird subway.  So maybe those batches of boards had some substandard components.

The PS-2 3V was a much more robust design, and also can come apart so it is easier for component repairs.  G

I'm not sure I understand. I have some questions for clarification if anyone can help:

  1. Is it that there are no replacement parts if they fry, or are 5V systems inherently flawed and bound to self destruct in a matter of time regardless of taking any action?
  2. Is a bad OEM battery an absolute cause for damaging the system? In other words, is replacement prudent considering the expense?
  3. Can anyone suggest a link where I can catch up on 5V board issues? I'm worried because some of my favorite engines are 5V PS2's, and I have a number of them

I guess this would be the green BCR for the replacement? If I understand one of the replies correctly, installing a BCR is only insult to injury? Can a schematic to home brew a 5V BCR be found anywhere, or is this not an ethical question?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm pretty bummed right now! 

Smokey, if you are referring to my post, my point is simply that I wouldn't spend that many dollars for an engjne that could fail and leave me with a bcr for which I have no other use.  I would just use a battery which is much cheaper.

All of my old 5-volt boards have been replaced with 3-volt, amd I do use supercaps instead of batteries

Smoke Stack Lightnin posted:

Is it that there are no replacement parts if they fry, or are 5V systems inherently flawed and bound to self destruct in a matter of time regardless of taking any action?

A little bit of both.  There are obsolete components on the 5V boards and even the 3V boards.  However, the big issue with the 5V boards is the two boards are permanently connected together so you can't get to most of the components for replacement and/or testing.  It appears that the 5V boards also run some of the components closer to the design limits.  Finally, I believe that at least some of the 5V boards likely have the defective electrolytic capacitors that flooded the market in the 2000-2003 window when they were manufactured.  The Capacitor Plague was a well known issue that affected many types of electronics in the early 2000's, so it's quite possible that the 5V boards may have had some of these bad parts as well.

Smoke Stack Lightnin posted:
Can anyone suggest a link where I can catch up on 5V board issues? I'm worried because some of my favorite engines are 5V PS2's, and I have a number of them

Lots of links have talked about it, but I don't know of a dedicated thread.

Smoke Stack Lightnin posted:
Is a bad OEM battery an absolute cause for damaging the system? In other words, is replacement prudent considering the expense?

If you have a bad or old battery, it's absolutely prudent to replace it.

As stated above concerning the PS-2, 5 volt boards, being designed "closer to component limits" and weak faulty caps from 2000 to 2003, I stay away from using a BCR which stresses the charging system every time you start the engine and the BCR is dead. Not only that, they do not fit in the plastic battery holders in the engines or the casted-in area of a fuel tank. I have a BCR that I just removed from a diesel fuel tank of an engine I just purchase at York. It was cracked open because it was too long to fit in the casted-in seat. When the installer tightened down the hold down bracket, they broke the top of the BCR off. It still works fine just needs glued. FREE if anyone wants it. I personally feel safer installing a "fully charged" Ni-MH battery. The green MTH batteries are a very good quality and have a 120 mAh rating. An even better choice is the Tenergy, advertised with " low self-discharge". They make a 200 mAh and a more expensive 250 mAh. I also like their charger and how the indicator lights tell you when the battery is finished charging and switches into "maintain mode" if the batteries are left in the charger (for us people who forget about them). I would like to make a jumper wire with the proper plug ends to be able to use the Tenergy charger to charge a battery in the engine (if I didn't run it in a long time). When using the MTH charger, there is no way to tell when the battery is finished and it doesn't shut off when done. A battery may be done in 30 minutes, or it may need several hours. It's a guessing game. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=n...words=tenergy+9+volt

Bobby Ogage posted:
RJR posted:

Problem is that the 9-volt PS2s boards are near the end of their lives.  If it goes, a BCR is expensive way to ornament a shelf.

I am challenging the above comment.

How is it known that the 9-volt PS2 boards are near the end of their lives?

What facts substantiate that statement?

 

 

This is a good point, I have several PS2 board from 2000 that still work great today.

All electronics have finite life cycle, and all will some day reach the end of their life. It has been discussed how the 5 volt boards tend to be less reliable and fail more frequently than the 3 volt boards.

This being said, I have had more more 3 volt board failures than 5 volt in my fleet of MTH engines.

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