Thanks for a logical explanation, GGG. I have one PS3 steamer, which I have never opened. Are you saying that there is no internal harness?
MTH did not make the PS-2 3V upgrade kit for steam with production features.
Are you speaking of those features made possible by the addition of a mux board in the engine to control marker, boiler, cab, etc. lights? If so, cannot one be added when upgrading?
[By the way, I'm Bob, not Ralph.]
I was talking about the external harnesses.
For PS-2 3V Steam upgrade you have 2 harnesses. An internal Engine harness and for the tender a combined internal and external harness. Very similar to production Starter set engines except one piece.
But for PS-3, if you wanted to create a PS-3 steam upgrade kit, you would need to manufacture a new combination tender harness, since PS-3 OEM use draw bars.
For the engine you also would need new type harness. From PCB to the boiler board and from the board to the engine components. All this would have to be made specific for an upgrade kit. Basically starting from scratch and requiring dedicated multiple harnesses. Do you want to keep it simple and inexpensive or make it more complex.
Adding a MUX requires the MUX harnesses, mounting board for the engine. You also then need the MUX board and mux harnesses for the Tender. So you add 2 boards and mounts, extra harness. Can you scratch build it, all to control one more light feature?
You don't get independent control of all those features. If you turn off headlight markers go off too. The interior and Firebox are the same circuit. Frankly, a lot more expense for one extra feature control. G
Thanks for taking the time to clarify, GGG. I appreciate it.
I thought that upgrading to PS-3 you would get led lighting and all the features of PS-3. Evidently this is not true. If that's the case why upgrade to PS-3? I have at least 9 PS-1 steam locomotives that i want to upgrade but if i don't get all the features i don't think i will do it. I just don't see spending a lot of money and not at least getting led lighting and being able to quill the whistle. Am i missing something here?
Yes. Upgrading from PS1 to PS2 or PS3 will get you the ability to run those locos in the same block/on the same track/at the same time.
Aside from long life (which to me has never been a problem), what is the advantage of LED in a loco? If your power supply is so marginal that the draw of those grain-of-wheat bulbs overcomes capacity, you've got other problems. I had over a dozen locos that I've upgraded to PS2, and have never regretted it. Those old Korea-built Weavers & MTHs run as well as or better than the new. I've also upgraded a couple of old Lionel Pulmor-powered locos, but don't recommend it unless you want the challenge.
Power supply not a problem, but i like led lighting and being able to quill the whistle is the feature i want.
I thought that upgrading to PS-3 you would get led lighting and all the features of PS-3. Evidently this is not true. If that's the case why upgrade to PS-3? I have at least 9 PS-1 steam locomotives that i want to upgrade but if i don't get all the features i don't think i will do it. I just don't see spending a lot of money and not at least getting led lighting and being able to quill the whistle. Am i missing something here?
Factory PS3 locomotives come with LED lighting, but in an upgrade, you're dealing with existing G-O-W bulbs and the kits are apparently designed around this. If you really want LEDs, just add an appropriate resistor in series and you're done. I believe they're feeding 5 volts to the G-O-W bulbs; White LEDs operate between 3 and 4 volts.
Good idea Matt, i will keep that in mind.
LED headlights in steamers and old prototypes, like PRR MU cars, just doesn't look prototypical. Color is wrong.
Read this whole thread or at least last few pages and you can read about what PS-32/ PS-3 brings to the table. If the whole reason to upgrade is LED lighting, you can do that with or without upgrading. Buy some LED with some current limiting resistors. About 300 ohms and you can convert all of your bulbs to LEDs. The markers are already LED so no change. G
Aside from long life (which to me has never been a problem), what is the advantage of LED in a loco? If your power supply is so marginal that the draw of those grain-of-wheat bulbs overcomes capacity, you've got other problems.
For me personally, I like the look of the LED headlight vs. the incandescent bulb. You actually get a beam of light down the tracks that looks like a real headlight vs. the relatively dim glow of the PS/2 incandescent bulbs. People that I have done upgrades for and changed to LED headlights were really pleased with the appearance over the bulbs. I use warm white LED's for steamers and early diesels, for modern locomotives I tend to use the bright white LED's for headlights.
Edit: You can also use yellow LED's for early steamers if you want to go more to the yellow color, the point is you have a choice and can pretty much make them looks prototypical.
feet, GGG and Matt are giving sound advice. GGG, as a most-knowledgeable person on the technicalities of boards, can you verify Matt's "belief" on the voltages supplied by boards? Did 5-volt, 3-volt PS2, and PS3 boards all supply the same voltage?
LED headlights in steamers and old prototypes, like PRR MU cars, just doesn't look prototypical. Color is wrong.
I never thought of that, but can you quill the whistle? that's the feature i like the best along with no battery to replace.
feet, GGG and Matt are giving sound advice. GGG, as a most-knowledgeable person on the technicalities of boards, can you verify Matt's "belief" on the voltages supplied by boards? Did 5-volt, 3-volt PS2, and PS3 boards all supply the same voltage?
That i can't confirm until i take one apart and measure voltage.
I apologize if not clear, feet. I was asking GGG for that info.
I apologize if not clear, feet. I was asking GGG for that info.
No reason to apologize RJR. Just reread the entire thread and got an education on PS-3. Looks like the quilling whistle feature is in the sound file. Forgive my spelling i don't think i spelled quilling correctly.
The quilling whistle requires the proper chain files and the proper sound file.
You may be able to play the whistle on an upgraded steamer if:
If all of the above are true, you should be able to implement a playable whistle by doing the following:
feet, GGG and Matt are giving sound advice. GGG, as a most-knowledgeable person on the technicalities of boards, can you verify Matt's "belief" on the voltages supplied by boards? Did 5-volt, 3-volt PS2, and PS3 boards all supply the same voltage?
I assume 6V and use the 300 ohm. In reality it is a high (near 22VDC) peaks that are sent to be effectively about 6V via PWM. I drive the strip LEDs off the output with no resistors and they require 12VDC. G
You may be able to play the whistle on an upgraded steamer if:
If all of the above are true, you should be able to implement a playable whistle by doing the following:
Barry, The PS-32 flash file is QW capable, but as you state you need a QW sound file. For PS-2 3V files that is only a few premier engines. Camelback, Northern, Big Boy, Mikado, and Triplex. May be one or two more, but that is about it.
I think it would be wiser to just try a PS-3 file with QW instead of loading the PS-3 Chainfile. The PS-3 chainfile most likely has different light pin outputs and it would cause issues. Some have already seen that.
This goes way back in the post, but MTH by procedure still loads characteristic in PS-3 sound files even though PS-3 boards get it from the flash file. SO the PS-32 will still get that info out of the sound file even if PS-3 one is used. You will get QW and speed data, and probably have a better chance getting lights right.
PS-32 is really meant to be used with PS-2 3V files. For someone with out the bench tester to see all the light outputs it would be trial and error with the engine trying to see what controls what. G
George,
The PS-3 chainfile most likely has different light pin outputs and it would cause issues. Some have already seen that.
That's why I specified using the PS32 Hardware Table from the PS32 Chain File. That could resolve some lighting irregularities.
Thanks for all the replies to my question gentlemen, you have been most helpful in helping me figure this out. Will there be a book or dvd on installing PS-3?
I did some experimenting with using a PS-3 Steam flash code on a PS-32 board from a steam kit. After installing the flash code, none of the bulb lights on the test set would light up. The motor ran, had sounds, smoke, couplers, but no lights.
When I changed direction into reverse I did get the forward light to come on with rule 17 when in reverse.
So I loaded the PS-32 hardware table and all the lights functioned correctly, with a PS-3 sound file for the unit I was working on (but mileage may vary for other sound files), but without Rule 17 since PS-32 code does not have that.
It struck me when I was looking at the files inside that flash zip file...
The reason you can't use the steam PS-3 flash files is that the there are two file effecting light controls. One is the Boiler board and the other is the tender board. The tender board is equivalent to the PS-32 board, but without all the pin outs and it does not control the light functions of the engine. The boiler board does.
So when using PS-32 steam upgrade boards, keep the PS-32 flash code and only load a PS-3 sound file if you want. If the features/speed control are not compatible, load the PS-2 sound file.
Trying to load the full PS-3 flash and sound file will not work. G
I'm glad you tried that George, I was curious as to what would happen if you tried that. 
Just curious. It was my understanding that PS2 upgrade kits could be used for either steam or diesel. The difference being steam kits came with a tether and diesel kits came with a second coupler. Could a PS3 steam kit be used with a diesel and diesel sounds installed without doing all this flash code stuff?
Steam kits are readily available from dealers even though Midge tells me I have to pre order them if I want one from MTH???
Pete
I haven't tried it, but since the PS-32 boards are used for both steam and diesel PS/2 5V board replacements, my guess would be that it would not be a problem.
Just curious. It was my understanding that PS2 upgrade kits could be used for either steam or diesel. The difference being steam kits came with a tether and diesel kits came with a second coupler. Could a PS3 steam kit be used with a diesel and diesel sounds installed without doing all this flash code stuff?
Steam kits are readily available from dealers even though Midge tells me I have to pre order them if I want one from MTH???
Pete
Pete, PS-2 3V boards are the same board, and the code in PS-2 board is Diesel/Steam/Trolley/Articulate. Hence they work in any model, other than those that need a special flash code such as Operating Pantograph, Quill Whistle, small smoke, Coors, etc....
For PS-3 kits you have two issues. First PS-3 steam is a 2 board set, so the flash code and sound files for steam are different then there Diesel counter parts. PS-3 Diesel is a single board.
The actual upgrade kits are board different too. So a PS-3 Diesel board for Diesel kit, and Daughter board for the Steam kit that uses bulbs.
The actual PS-3 diesel board has more light outputs and effects then a PS-2 3V or PS-32 can handle. I am pretty sure PS-32 would operate the lights if you used a PS-3 flash file, but you might not have the desired effect on the engine.
You have to find out what lights function is controlled by the PS-3 code versus the original PS-2. For example ditch lights may be flashing with PS-3 code, but the PS-2 used ditch lights constant on for number boards, etc.... G
G, I appreciate the explanation. I was just curious. No urgent need for Diesel kits right now.
Pete
Here is the back fit of the PS-32 into a PR FEF Northern, checking my records I have repaired over 10 of these engine. Not a good track record for that specific model 5V board. Good news is the PS-32 can fit, but it is tighter and requires more work to fit. G
I'm still waiting on a couple of diesel upgrade kits, I'm curious what capabilities they'll have vs. the PS/2 boards. You had a number of lighting options on the PS/2 boards with diesels as you had access to all the board outputs.
John, FYI, I was talking to MTH a few days ago and they said another month or so---nothing specific---for the diesel upgrade kits.
The Beta PS3 diesel kit was nice. I don't know if they plan on offering that kit.
Dave
I probably should have ordered one of the beta kits, but I figured I'd wait until the "final" and see what it was like. I wonder when the steam kits will actually have their own documentation?
RJR posted:John, FYI, I was talking to MTH a few days ago and they said another month or so---nothing specific---for the diesel upgrade kits.
I don't have a home right now for the diesel kits, so I'm really in no hurry. I got a couple of the PS/3 steam kits, and I still have a couple of the PS/2 steam kits on the shelf. I'm set for the near term... 
They have to include another tach bracket for the PS-3 tach reader so you have a fit for various sized flywheels. The PS-3 diesel is a full up PS-3 Diesel board with full access harness to all the lighting functions. You load a PS-3 sound file if you want, or loaded the PS-2 file and use the diesel flash code. You won't be able to use this in a Steam engine though. You could do it with major mods to harness, but steam PS-3 files expects a tender board and a boiler board, so lights won't work right if you load a steam PS-3 flash code into a Diesel board. G
One wonders if this is really progress.
John, is the attached what you're looking for? It's later than the pen-&-ink markup I got with the upgrade kits.
Thanks, I didn't look on the MTH site, I just noticed I got the PS/2 kit instructions with things crossed out! 
Yes
John I noticed the instructions being crossed out as soon as my PS 3 kits came, then I asked questions, I guess eventually MTh will rewrite the instructions for the new PS 3 kits .
Alan
Alan, I just posted them above.
I found the steam on the MTH site, but the diesel instructions are nowhere in sight. That may be one of the things holding them up as they're pretty much all new for the PS/3. The steam instructions were really a rewrite of a sections to highlight the differences, but most of the manual is the same or very similar.
John, the lady at MTH made a comment about waiting for the harnesses.
I know, but the fact that the diesel manual hasn't made it to the site suggests it's not ready either.
An ASC note went about some that shipped with marked up instructions. The new one are posted. G
I just completed a PS32 upgrade (using the kit) and loaded a 3V sound file. When initially putting voltage to the track, there is a loud beeping tone produced. This happens each time power is applied to the track and after power is removed, I assume this is indication the unit has charged the capacitor enough to run. Is this normal? Is there a way to reduce the volume of the tone?
Once the beeping completes its cycle, the engine can be started in the normal fashion from the remote and runs and responds from the remote like any other PS2 engine.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
This is not normal. There's a recent thread, with video, that addresses this. Boards incorrectly programmed at MTH. Only MTH can fix, apparently, and is aware that it's their fault.
I think this is the thread RJR is referring to: PS-3 Upgrade headache
I just read it the other day and I believe it was a very odd and obscure problem.
Thanks, rtr12.
I must have guessed correctly. You are most welcome.
I talked to MTH today and they sent me a steam chain file (very nice on the phone by the way). After loading it, problem gone. I am not sure why the upgrade manual would not mention the need for both the chain file and a sound file. A bit different then the PS2 upgrades I have done in the past.
I am sure there are several threads already addressing this very issue, but I really do not think I should have to read a thread for this, it should be mentioned in the manual. Regardless, really appreciate RJR pointing me in the right direction.
Glad to have helped. Real credit goes to VA Golfer, for posting the issue he encountered.
Over the years, on a few occasions I've spoken to MTH techs, and they have always been great.
Hump Yard Mike posted:I talked to MTH today and they sent me a steam chain file (very nice on the phone by the way). After loading it, problem gone. I am not sure why the upgrade manual would not mention the need for both the chain file and a sound file. A bit different then the PS2 upgrades I have done in the past.
I am sure there are several threads already addressing this very issue, but I really do not think I should have to read a thread for this, it should be mentioned in the manual. Regardless, really appreciate RJR pointing me in the right direction.
Mike, Normally you do not need to do that as the PS-3 Steam kit should have the proper flash code installed before shipping. When loading new code the boards will beep until next power up indicating the processor is being updated. Once the code is installed and sound file loaded, those beeps should not occur anymore. If they do, it means a section of the EIS memory (controls the processor) as been corrupted during the load. Some are recoverable with a new flash code load, others require factory reprogramming with factory fixture. This has been discussed before, but I am sure will continue to occur. G
Can the average person get the steam chain file as i am not an MTH tech?
Yes, just download the PS/3 sound file of your choice, you'll see that it's a ZIP file. Inside you find two files, the sound file and the ZIP file containing the chain files. Don't unpack the second ZIP, the loader will process the chain files from the ZIP file as it is. You upload them as two separate operations to the PS/3 locomotive.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Yes, just download the PS/3 sound file of your choice, you'll see that it's a ZIP file. Inside you find two files, the sound file and the ZIP file containing the chain files. Don't unpack the second ZIP, the loader will process the chain files from the ZIP file as it is. You upload them as two separate operations to the PS/3 locomotive.
Thanks John. I have never done an upgrade yet as i am still researching what i am getting myself into.
feet posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Yes, just download the PS/3 sound file of your choice, you'll see that it's a ZIP file. Inside you find two files, the sound file and the ZIP file containing the chain files. Don't unpack the second ZIP, the loader will process the chain files from the ZIP file as it is. You upload them as two separate operations to the PS/3 locomotive.
Thanks John. I have never done an upgrade yet as i am still researching what i am getting myself into.
I'm with you Feet! I have never done an upgrade, but have two Premier PS1 diesel sets I would like to upgrade some day. Putting all the new features on a couple of great looking engines is a great opportunity!
gunrunnerjohn posted:Yes, just download the PS/3 sound file of your choice, you'll see that it's a ZIP file. Inside you find two files, the sound file and the ZIP file containing the chain files. Don't unpack the second ZIP, the loader will process the chain files from the ZIP file as it is. You upload them as two separate operations to the PS/3 locomotive.
John, This is not correct for a PS-32 Upgrade Steam file. MTH is suppose to post the chain file on their web for PS-32 steam and diesel. It is different than a Pure PS-3 chain file in a PS-3 engine. The good news is the PS-32 Steam upgrade kits come preloaded with PS-32 Steam flash code.
For the customers, if you want to learn more start at the beginning of this thread and read the differences. When upgrading a steam engine with a PS-32 steam kit you are suppose to load a PS-2 3V file. You maybe able to load a PS-3 Sound file only, but performance may vary. YOU CAN NOT LOAD A PS-3 STEAM Chain FILE into a PS-32 board set. It won't work and you will loose all light function. G
Good point, I wasn't thinking of the upgrade kit, but rather standard PS/3 boards. I've yet to deal with the PS/3 upgrade.
Ignore my previous message folks! 
I hope Jim Barret makes a dvd for the PS-32 upgrade kits. Sure liked the one he did on PS-2 upgrade kits.
It really is the same for PS-3 Steam upgrade. The harness and hardware are all the same, less the battery and battery harness. Follow the video and just stick to loading a PS-2 3V upgrade or PS-2 3V factory file for the engine you are upgrading and you should not have any problems.
People get into trouble trying to load PS-3 files. It wasn't really meant for that. It has been explained above. What works and what doesn't, and even why. G.
That's what i was thinking GGG, thanks for that info.
Anyone have these answers???
What is the cost to upgrade a PS-1 diesel A-unit to PS-2?
(Using PS-2 upgrade kit or PS-3 upgrade kit.)
What is the cost to upgrade a PS-1 diesel A-unit to PS-3?
What is the cost to upgrade a PS-2 (5v) diesel to PS-3?
Will a matching powered PS-1 B-unit operate with an A-unit upgrade without any modifications?
What is the cost for the upgrade from PS-2 (3V) to PS-3?
What parts (upgrade kits) are (or will be) available directly to the consumer (not just MTH techs)?
Ps3 upgrade kits are available from mth. $199 msrp; cheaper thru mthrr club
What is the cost to upgrade a PS-1 diesel A-unit to PS-2?
(Using PS-2 upgrade kit or PS-3 upgrade kit.)
What is the cost to upgrade a PS-1 diesel A-unit to PS-3?
What is the cost to upgrade a PS-2 (5v) diesel to PS-3?
Al the same price. $199 for a PS3 upgrade kit, a bit less if you belong to MTH's RR Club. PS2 kits are no longer available.
Will a matching powered PS-1 B-unit operate with an A-unit upgrade without any modifications?
No, absolutely not.
What is the cost for the upgrade from PS-2 (3V) to PS-3?
Same kit, same cost.
What parts (upgrade kits) are (or will be) available directly to the consumer (not just MTH techs)?
Most things except the boards. Only a tech can purchase a PS3 board of any type.
Barry,
i was not aware the boards are only available to MTH certified technicians. However, I think that is best. Having worked as an electronics technician since 1976, and now in engineering, I take the warnings on the manual about using a static pad and wrist strap and the warranty being voided once the static bag is opened very seriously. I had toyed with the idea of upgrading my PS1 B&O E8 ABA set myself, but will take it to Dave Minarik's Mercer Junction instead.
Thank you for the answers!
Barry Broskowitz posted:What is the cost to upgrade a PS-1 diesel A-unit to PS-2?
(Using PS-2 upgrade kit or PS-3 upgrade kit.)
What is the cost to upgrade a PS-1 diesel A-unit to PS-3?
What is the cost to upgrade a PS-2 (5v) diesel to PS-3?
Al the same price. $199 for a PS3 upgrade kit, a bit less if you belong to MTH's RR Club. PS2 kits are no longer available.
Will a matching powered PS-1 B-unit operate with an A-unit upgrade without any modifications?
No, absolutely not.
What is the cost for the upgrade from PS-2 (3V) to PS-3?
Same kit, same cost.
What parts (upgrade kits) are (or will be) available directly to the consumer (not just MTH techs)?
Most things except the boards. Only a tech can purchase a PS3 board of any type.
Thanks for the information.
What modifications are needed to convert a PS-1 powered B-Unit to PS-2 or PS-3 so that it could operate with an already modified A-unit?
What modifications are needed to convert a PS-1 powered B-Unit to PS-2 or PS-3 so that it could operate with an already modified A-unit?
You would have to either acquire a PS3 slave board or install an upgrade kit in the B unit. If the latter, you would then use the B unit as a member of a lashup.
Barry Broskowitz posted:What modifications are needed to convert a PS-1 powered B-Unit to PS-2 or PS-3 so that it could operate with an already modified A-unit?
You would have to either acquire a PS3 slave board or install an upgrade kit in the B unit. If the latter, you would then use the B unit as a member of a lashup.
Thanks for the info.
Looking for an authorized MTH tech to upgrade MTH PS1 F3 diesel A-B sets.
Also looking for board upgrades for PS-2 diesels having 5V batteries.
My location is Kansas City, MO.
Need to clarify a little here. First PS-2 boards are not sold in the Upgrade kits anymore. You may find a PS-2 upgrade kit from a retail store that has one still in stock, but all new Upgrade kits are of the PS-3 variant,
The PS-2 Slave kit was only sold to ASC Techs, because of the extra level of difficulty in the install. Not saying an experienced hobbyist couldn't to it, but that was MTH policy.
There is no PS-3 Slave upgrade kit. If you have an ABA, or Turbine unit with powered B MTH recommends using 2 PS-3 upgrade kits to make both independent units and then run as MU/Lashup.
A PS-2 Slave board will not work with PS-3 A unit and vice versa.
Back to earlier post in this thread, a PS-32 board (which is what is in the Steam Upgrade kit); is a PS-3 Diesel board with modified flash code to work with PS-2 3V files and an adapter board to run bulbs and such. It uses PS-2 3V harnesses. This board can work with a PS-2 slave board. This board with 5V connectors is also the replacement board to repair a PS-2 5V engine. The warning is that this board is slightly wider and taller, and with all the wires at the top. Does not fit in all applications.
Examples are back into Bantam and some RK engines, where original 5V boards were. Engines with small tenders like Climax, PR Atlantics, and some RK engines where speaker is in the front or middle of tender. G
Not true, you can install a tether, and one comes with the steam kit. Also, that locomotive has a tether, it has to. The board is in the tender, and the motor and power pickups are in the locomotive. Here's a picture from the parts breakdown. You replace this 4-wire tether with the one from the PS/3 kit.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Not true, you can install a tether, and one comes with the steam kit. Also, that locomotive has a tether, it has to. The board is in the tender, and the motor and power pickups are in the locomotive. Here's a picture from the parts breakdown. You replace this 4-wire tether with the one from the PS/3 kit.
Thanks for the info John, I was looking at the pix on the website and did not see the tether, so I thought it didn't have one.
So am I to assume you believe it can be done, theoretically?
I believe it can be done quite simply, certainly as easy as most other upgrades. There's nothing I see about that set that poses any unique challenge, looks pretty generic. Plenty of room in the tender for the boards and speaker, Easy Peasy.
gunrunnerjohn posted:I believe it can be done quite simply, certainly as easy as most other upgrades. There's nothing I see about that set that poses any unique challenge, looks pretty generic. Plenty of room in the tender for the boards and speaker, Easy Peasy.
Thanks John. 
Charly, That one can be done. It is a larger RK engine. So plenty of room. G
Must be an echo in here.
You "believed", I confirmed it "can" be done.
Two weeks ago I successfully completed my first PS3 upgrade. It had been 11 years since I did an upgrade so I took my time with it. There was a lot I didn't remember so it paid off to go slowly and follow the directions.
I just re-read this entire thread and I am still unsure about my next one so here goes. It is a PS2 with scale wheels. I believe it is a 3 volt board but won't know for sure until I take it apart. I need DCC compatibility which is why I want to upgrade it.
Can I just swap the boards or is there more to it than that?
If the answer is yes I would like to then install PS2 using the PS2 board from the scale wheels locomotive, which has low miles and hours on it into a PS1 Rail King locomotive using the rest of the upgrade kit. Will this work too?
Phil
Yes It will. Just remove the PS-2 3V board, board bracket and heat sink. Remove battery, battery harness and holder. You probably can mount the PS-32 board in the existing holes without the metal bracket. At that point you only need to drill and tap one hole to mount the new PS-32 heat sink.
Use remove parts from PS-2 3V in your new engine. Harness are the same, sans battery harness.
PS Is this 2R-3R? If so you should redo switch wiring as polarity switch no longer required. Also if you run 2 wheels there are mods you can do to improve AC Ground transfer. G
Thank you very much for the help GGG. I sincerely appreciate it.
Marty,
I have several older subway Loco sound ps1 motor cars. How hard will it be to go from a Loco sound power car to a ps3? I would love the fact that we could do a lash up of 3 motor cars and 15 non powered ones. That will be awesome. All working together and not against one another.
Not hard, easier than PS-1 since Loco sounds had motors with flywheels, G
Can someone tell me which chain file to load? There are four files when I unzipped the chain file. Do I load them all?
If so, Is there a certain order?
I'm not getting control of the lights and believe it's in the chain files? I already loaded the Evo sound file. It runs but the lights won't respond to soft keys.
There are some lights that don't light? The rear markers are on in reverse but the front don't light at all for example.
I loaded all four chain files in the order they appeared. It worked so I am good.
Joe,
You did some extra work, since the Chain File .zip archive is meant to be the actual input to the Loader Program.
While you can do as you did and, after unzipping the .zip file archive, load each file in turn, it's much easier to simply select the .zip file as the input file. The Loader Program will then unzip the archive and automatically process each file, one after the other.
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Someday Barry, I will get it right! See what I get for being cheap! I didn't upgrade to 3rd edition of your book.
The loader didn't see the whole ES44Evo file until I in-zipped it and saved that again to my key chain drive. I thought I had to in-zip all of it.
Maybe it's my old computer not showing it?
You unzip the downloaded file, it gives you a sound file and the chain files in another ZIP file. Then you point the loader at those to upload to the engine, you don't unpack the second ZIP file.
gunrunnerjohn posted:You unzip the downloaded file, it gives you a sound file and the chain files in another ZIP file. Then you point the loader at those to upload to the engine, you don't unpack the second ZIP file.
I got that much from what Barry had posted John.
When I used my old computer to load the files, it did not show them? I had to go upstairs and unzip them for that computer to recognize them on that removable drive card.
I can only guess that it's a older windows XP or 7 issue?
I have now found extra charging lights are on unused pins #7 & #9 for rear ditch lights.
GRJ, you were right. The ps3 board does seem to take care of the sequence of the charging lights.
God, I hate my voice!
Joe,
I installed pins w/wires in slots 7/9 for rear ditch lites on a NS Heritage Reading SD70 (20-20271-1)
using a PS3 diesel upgrade board and for some reason they do not work. Am going to troubleshoot tomorrow.
bruce
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Engineer-Joe posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:You unzip the downloaded file, it gives you a sound file and the chain files in another ZIP file. Then you point the loader at those to upload to the engine, you don't unpack the second ZIP file.
I got that much from what Barry had posted John.
When I used my old computer to load the files, it did not show them? I had to go upstairs and unzip them for that computer to recognize them on that removable drive card.
I can only guess that it's a older windows XP or 7 issue?
You don't have to know what's inside the second ZIP, it's all taken care of by the loader. You just point at it when you upload the FLASH code and it automagically unpacks it and loads them all. I've loaded them on Win7 and Win10 the same way. Everything here is Win10 now, but when I was using Win7 they worked the same way.
bruce benzie posted:Joe,
I installed pins w/wires in slots 7/9 for rear ditch lites on a NS Heritage Reading SD70 (20-20271-1)
using a PS3 diesel upgrade board and for some reason they do not work. Am going to troubleshoot tomorrow.
bruce
They have to be enabled in the sound file and/or chain file in order to function. I suspect that some configurations don't have them enabled.
One thing I did note while loading each chain file, is that the lighting functions kept changing. The beacon did not work at first. Then, it came on with a load. Finally, it is back off again when the final chain file loaded.
I swapped the marker lights while searching for why the green front ones didn't light? When I plugged them into the rear socket they lit. So I put the red into the front socket and they lit too? I think they're just messing with me!!! ????
So Bruce, it seems important to find a soundfile and chain file that supports the functions you're after as GRJ stated.
and finally, another video....
Remember that if your wiring the LEDs yourself, they are reversed from PS2 I believe. The assigned pins are hot and the return to ground is thru the purple.
However smoke and couplers are different!!
I'm planning to use a PS3 upgrade kit to replace a bad PS2 board on a Premier Triplex. When I right click on the associated upgrade sound file, I get a screen full of symbols. No zip file. When I click on a PS3 sound file for a later Triplex engine, I get a zip file to save. But MTH instructions say I should only use PS2 files. What am I dong wrong?
PS3 steam upgrade kit uses PS2 sound files, with no zip file.
I just picked an early PS/2 model, this one: https://mthtrains.com/20-3069-1
I clicked on the Upgrade link and got this file.
pr_triplex_011129c_final_3v.mth
I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but you may have to right click and select "save as" to get it properly.
The PS/3 Steam Upgrade uses the 3V PS/2 files, do NOT load the chain files.
That is the same upgrade that I'm trying to save. When I right click on yoor upgrade link I don't get an option to save as
When I tried to save your file, it saved it as a PDF.
Bob, I use Firefox. If I left click on GRJ's link, I get another window with the option to save it.
Bob, you need to configure your browser for file types. What are you using. I tried it with Firefox, Chrome, and Microsoft EDGE, all of them were able to download the file properly by just right clicking on it and saving the link as...
I had that same issue when I upgraded to windows ten and the edge browser. The only way I could get the file, to be able to load, someone sent it to me in an email. (Barry or Marty?)
Joe, for EDGE I just go to the MTH page, select the Support tab, and right click on the ProtoSound Upgrade icon. I get the following drop-down, I select Save target as and I get the proper .MTH file. Below is the display I get in Microsoft EDGE.
I thought if you just save the target, you are saving where the web page is? That didn't work for me as I load downstairs with an old machine that is not connected to the internet. Maybe I'm wrong, again?
Thanks for all your help. AOL and Google Chrome don't work. I get save target as with Microsoft explorer. But it wants to save it as a Adobe Acrobat file. I don't think that is right.
I absolutely love that these kits are out! It’s so nice to have so much money in these newer engines and they never become obsolete. Thank you mth for doing as much for operators as possible! Means a lot!
Hey guys-
I'm considering upgrading a few of my PS1 diesel locomotives to PS3 and am looking into sourcing an upgrade kit (50-1912). I recall in the past that MTH club members received a discount on the upgrade kits when ordering directly from MTH, however when I look at the MTHRRC details on MTH's site I don't see any mention of it. Does anyone know if that discount is still available for members and if so, how much each kit would cost?
Thanks!
mattrain posted:Hey guys-
I'm considering upgrading a few of my PS1 diesel locomotives to PS3 and am looking into sourcing an upgrade kit (50-1912). I recall in the past that MTH club members received a discount on the upgrade kits when ordering directly from MTH, however when I look at the MTHRRC details on MTH's site I don't see any mention of it. Does anyone know if that discount is still available for members and if so, how much each kit would cost?
Thanks!
I bought one last fall as a MTHRRC member at the discount price. I want to say it was $175.
Various vendors have them as well: http://allaboardtrains1.com/50prso3diupk.html
We are an ASC for MTH and I cant seem to find any correspondence from Jeff or Jason which lists the different part numbers for proto 3.0 steam in tender boards. I've checked with what service bulletins along with the common parts listing and I cannot find and reference to any PS3/2 part numbers (similar to Marty's original post which started this thread). Am I missing a service bulletin ? also could you tell me the part numbers for the Proto 3.0 steam boards that go in the tender ?
Thanks to all
I'd contact Jason directly.
PS-32 Steam Upgrade board in the PS-3 Steam Kit is AE-100035-3V as a repair part, but this will require a turn in part. G
Hi folks
I'm back after a few years. The PS3 upgrades look neat. I read the whole thread. I've done a Williams GG1 PS 2 install and MTH GP9 PS1 to PS2 upgrade. I've also resoldered MTH steamer tethers.
1) Is the space needed for a PS3 the same as a PS2 for a diesel?
2) If trying to put PS3 in say... a Lionel Polar Express or Hogwarts express, the challenge would be mounting the Tach. The boards to in the tender. Right?
3) That said. has anyone done those locos, that's willing to quote an uprade?
4) If I have a 2005 RTR Christmas steamer, I'm giving to a niece this Christmas (30-4141-1), is that a 5V setup? If so, would it be cheaper to buy the upgrade kit, or to pay a ech that can get just the board? I am in NJ and can probably get the train as far away as Hennings.
Thanks
Marty ( A random Marty, clearly not the Marty)
Marty, the Polar Express could be possible, but the Hogwarts has a vertical motor and an oddball flywheel. That one would take some work to make it happen. I did a Hogwarts in TMCC when the Cruise Lite was available, nowadays I'm not sure what I'd do. The Hogwart's also has the small set motor, so a newer Polar Express is a better bet with the large motor.
The PS-3 Upgrade kit for steam uses the PS-32 board which is wider and slightly taller then the PS-2 3V. So it has become harder to do installs in small steam with small tenders. G
no that engine is a ps 2 3 volt board! and as far as the kits concerned is you can purchase it from mth for $169.00 plus shipping if you join there premier or railking club there is a feed then you get kit for the above price, otherwise it cost you 199.00 plus $18.00 shipping!
p.s I have ps2 3volt board if you would want me to replace it and not have to buy the kit! the board would still be ps 2 3 volt and much cheaper then buying the kit especially if your paying someone to upgrade it for you! I'm in new jersey too!
Yes the board would be cheaper!
Alan
I have a general question about the Proto-Sound 3.0 Upgrade Kits mentioned here: https://www.mthtrains.com/news/571. These are specifically items 50-1911 and 50-1912.
1. Do these kits use the so called "PS32" board?
2. Is it right to say they are designed for Proto-Sound 2.0 3v sound files? If yes, why on page 33 of the upgrade manual say that the user must download a Proto-Sound 3.0 Upgrade Sound file?
3. Are the upgrades mostly geared towards owners of older original Proto-Sound locos (PS1)? Or are they more for people that want to install a command system in a conventional locomotive, like older Lionel or 3rd Rail ones? Or both?
4. If I have a Proto-Sound 2.0 (3v or 5v) locomotive and the circuit board dies beyond repair, are the "PS32" boards (sans the rest of the upgrade kit parts) what a ASC tech would install as a replacement board?
I know this is probably covered elsewhere, but after reading all eight pages of this thread and searching the forum I can't find answers to these specific questions.
Steam kits use the PS32 board and load 3V PS/2 files.
Diesel upgrade kits are standard PS/3 diesel boards and require PS/3 sound and chain files.
Upgrade kits are targeted for anyone that wants to add DCS command to a non-command locomotive, or for people that would like to move from TMCC to DCS.
Yes, the PS32 board is the board we use to replace both the 3V and 5V PS/2 boards, there are no more PS/2 boards available for repairs.
Thanks. The difference between Steam and Diesel kits is what I think I was missing. It's all much clearer now.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Steam kits use the PS32 board and load 3V PS/2 files.
Diesel upgrade kits are standard PS/3 diesel boards and require PS/3 sound and chain files.
Upgrade kits are targeted for anyone that wants to add DCS command to a non-command locomotive, or for people that would like to move from TMCC to DCS.
Yes, the PS32 board is the board we use to replace both the 3V and 5V PS/2 boards, there are no more PS/2 boards available for repairs.
As a FYI I've had no problem running PS3 steam sound files in a PS32 board, as long as the proper PS32 steam chain file is loaded. You DO NOT want to load the steam PS3 chain file associated with the PS3 steam sound file you are using, just the PS3 sound file. Leave the PS32 steam chain file alone.
Correct, most PS/3 steam sound files will work with the PS32 boards. I hesitate to mention that as there are wrinkles, depending on the specifics of the engine and the sound file. For sure you don't want to try to load the PS/3 chain files, that will fail for sure.
Gunrunnerjohn,
Can you still get a ps3 kit for steam with smoke unit. I have a Weaver Models Pacific that I might want it installed in. I want the straight diesel tether from the tender to the engine.
@DL&W Pete posted:Gunrunnerjohn,
Can you still get a ps3 kit for steam with smoke unit. I have a Weaver Models Pacific that I might want it installed in. I want the straight diesel tether from the tender to the engine.
Yep, I buy the smoke units separately, obviously they don't come in the kit. Is this a brass steamer or diecast? The straight tether is really dependent on how much clearance I have, some lend themselves to it better than others. Also, typically the straight tether limits the type of curves, so if you have wide curves, you'll be happier with the operation.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Yep, I buy the smoke units separately, obviously they don't come in the kit. Is this a brass steamer or diecast? The straight tether is really dependent on how much clearance I have, some lend themselves to it better than others. Also, typically the straight tether limits the type of curves, so if you have wide curves, you'll be happier with the operation.
It is die cast, this was the run that was for K-line but they went under. So Weaver took the order.
I think I am in the right area now. Just purchased my first steam proto 1 engine and looking to upgrade. I guess I have to go right to ps3. Are these kits available anywhere or did I miss the boat.
They are or will be available again. I grabbed a few of the steam upgrade kits when they were available, but I'm still waiting on the diesel upgrade kits I ordered.
50-1911 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)
click on find it locally and 2 shops have them for sale price is $199.00 plus shipping
Alan
Well I received a response from one. There not selling then only being used for people waiting to do a in house upgrade. Will see if the other vender responds
@gunrunnerjohn posted:They are or will be available again. I grabbed a few of the steam upgrade kits when they were available, but I'm still waiting on the diesel upgrade kits I ordered.
Mine shipped last week and will arrive from MTH tomorrow according to tracking.
Is there a PS3 slave board for ABA setups that goes with this stack board setup?
Nope, there exists a PS/3 diesels slave, but it's not sold for retrofits, and I'm not sure we can even get spare boards nowadays.
I have had the slave board go out 2-3 times so I’m looking for either a reliable fix or an upgrade to replace or eliminate it. The last time it went out was a week ago, fortunately I had a spare which now needs to be repaired or replaced. With the money I have already spent repairing this unit I could have upgraded both A units.
I'd just do another full PS/3 upgrade, that's the only "supported" path now.
On both A units?
I have the 20-2563-1 FT ABA set
Yep, on any powered unit, you just upgrade it like it was an independent engine. Then to run them, you configure an MU and run them together, or they'll run separately.
This confirms my thoughts on upgrading, what about the couplers on the B unit? Currently they are fixed and do not open, is it possible to add proto couplers?
Anything's possible, but typically you want the short dummy couplers to keep them fairly closely coupled.
Not sure I’ve seen any short dummy couplers, any pictures? I believe the existing couplers are dummies not sure if they are short or not.
Kind of a related question on an ABA, if you had a slave board die let's use a 5v slave as an example, could you leave the lead A alone and just upgrade the slave A first or do both have to upgraded at the same time to PS/3?
Trainlover9943, I actually thought about that to help reduce the cost all at one time.
I have had the slave board go out 2-3 times so I’m looking for either a reliable fix or an upgrade to replace or eliminate it. The last time it went out was a week ago, fortunately I had a spare which now needs to be repaired or replaced. With the money I have already spent repairing this unit I could have upgraded both A units. Harlee62
actually you can get ps 2 salve boards repaired so thy won't fail i have done it!
Alan
@Harlee62 posted:Trainlover9943, I actually thought about that to help reduce the cost all at one time.
My thoughts exactly. Plus if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Alan Mancus I would love to have the sale board fixed so it won’t fail again that would be a big plus since it seems that is the weak link.
Gunrunnerjohn,
I hope I’m posting this in the correct forum. I saw an old post where you helped a member with the same problem. I have a PS1 engine that doesn’t run (it just makes a horrible sound like radio static) and I want to upgrade a it to PS3. I need to know where to cut the traces on the circuit board of my smoke unit, but my board isn’t shown in the PS3 upgrade instructions, nor is it the board pictured in the post I read earlier. I have a PS1 RailKing Allegheny, the box shows 20-1117LP, but the catalog # is 30-1117LP. I've attached pictures of the smoke unit and engine. I've been away from the hobby for quite some time and I'm in the process of making room for a layout so I won't be doing the upgrade immediately, I'm just trying to get the process established in my mind before attempting the upgrade. After reading some of the preceding posts, hopefully I’ll still be able to get a PS3 upgrade kit when I’m ready to do the job. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
Steve
You're in luck. Since you don't need any of the PCB stuff for PS/3, just remove that bottom board and pitch all of it.
On the top board, remove the stack funnel, and just cut any traces leaving from the two resistor pads on each side. Remove all the wires. If you plan on using the existing headlight socket, it has to be totally floated, both wires, no frame connection.
If ou post a picture of the top of this board after you've removed the funnel, I'll indicate the traces to cut and what to jumper.
Thanks a lot John! I’ll get back to it in a day or so and post the picture without the stack. Thanks again.
Steve
Hi John,
Here’s the photo of the board minus the funnel, as requested.
I’m not good at electronics, so I’ve attached the following picture in the hope that you can tell me what it is. 
I found the brown cylindrical “thing” (I told you I wasn’t good with electronics) on the right side of the photo laying in the shell of the Allegheny when I took it apart. Could this be the reason that the engine stopped working? It looks like it’s a perfect fit for the spot labeled C1 on the board. I still want to do the upgrade regardless of what it is, I’m just curious. Also, regarding the headlight, I was going to use the existing bracket, but won’t the grommet and wire harness that’s supplied with the upgrade kit be enough to isolate the headlight? Thanks again John.
John, one more question. Would it be ok to use the bottom board as a mounting bracket for the smoke unit if I remove the components from the board?
You don't have to remove the components, just all the wires. The components obviously aren't in the way now, so why make extra work?
For the smoke unit, remove all the wires and cut the trace at the red line. You can actually cut it anywhere along the trace, that one just has to be gone. You will then have to connect the two places with the yellow circles together and connect each of those to the PS/3 smoke heater wires, (red connector). Polarity doesn't matter here as there's no ground and they're resistors. The smoke fan wires (green connector) are polarity sensitive, you want the fan to spin clockwise looking from the top.
Thanks for the help, John. I really appreciate it. I think the PS3 installation instructions should get me the rest of the way. Thanks again!
@Marty Fitzhenry posted:One thing I did not touch on is you can replace any bad PS2 3 volt boards when needed with the upgrade board set and your locomotive will now be PS3. This is not just for 5 volt replacement. Just order the AE-1003v36 top adapter board plug it into the bottom board and you are good to go.
Do I understand this statement correctly that the new PS3 top board can plug into an older PS2 bottom board? or is it just that a different top board is needed to match the PS2 harnesses for plug and play?
If it's the first, then can I get a deal on a dozen or so?
I'm assuming you have to be talking about the PS32 board set, right? Most certainly that top board is not in any compatible in form or function with any of the PS/2 board pieces.
The Stacker board on top of the PS32 board set has the same connectors as a PS/2 board and is intended to be used as a replacement for dead PS/2 board of either the 3V or 5V logic when used with it's companion PS/3 bottom board.
I have a dead Railking Decapod that had PS2. It died on dirty track. Would upgrading to PS3 be a fix?
Thanks!
Dale
You can have a PS32 board installed to replace the dead PS/2 board, it's the cheapest alternative if the board is truly dead.
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