Pullman-Bradley Cars

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WEAVER...;hash=item1c3d5ae052

ON Ebay, but has nice images of the Cotton Belt car, in the SP scheme.

Dan

Managed to obtain 4 more Pullman Bradley cars on e bay.  Now have enough cars for my Patriot. 

Does any one know whereto find 6 wheel trucks for diner?  I will try Weaver on Tuesday after holiday weekend. 

Sorry Bob no Seaboard on e bay. 

mikeg

Mike,

I've decided the best thing to do is buy one of the other RR named cars and do a repaint, I have the decals.

Here's the Lionel P/N for their trucks - 6-22365.

You might be better off to buy a MTH Full-Length Vista Dome car and use the 6-wheeled trucks from it.  They can be found fairly cheap and parts from it can be used on other projects (that's what I've been planning to do with the SAL car I have).

Bob,

I heard from Weaver today and they do not have 6 wheel passenger trucks. 

I will contact Lionel tomorrow, 3 hour time difference is a pain, would you guys please align your clocks with us. 

Is the mounting the same as the Weaver truck mounting?

Does any one know do the NH Parlors have 4 or 6 wheel trucks?

mikeg

The Osgood Bradley coaches and grill cars in their as delivered configuration to the New Haven had 4 wheel trucks from all the photos i've seen. Just checked a photo in my train room of NH #5201 grill car; it has with 4 wheel trucks.

jackson

If possible, could you post a picture of it? My 2 PB cars that are posted earlier in this blog, are diners and I have not seen any pictures of the grill car.

Appreciate input,

mikeg

Mike, Would like to but my attempts to scan pics fail miserably due to my own lack of computer skills. However, would suggest you Google "Osgood Bradley grill cars photos". Also check the NH RR historical groups online for pics. l bought my photos from one of those groups at a train show, but with a little searching you can find photos online. Also remember when built the NH called their diners "grill cars". Am not sure what they were called in the post WWII era as they may have modernized them, or how other RR's configured them or what they called them.

jackson

Mike,

Just found this online:

http://railwayclassics.com/images/amflyer/NH01-35.jpg

Also was wondering if the photos you posted were of a car similar to the New Haven's "Watch Hill", and were these corrugated side cars rebuilt Osgood Bradley cars or not? Any New Haven experts here with the info?

Mike,

Try this site: http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/NH.htm  In looking at the photos in it i saw the ones you posted earlier. My question is, were these originally O-B cars or rebuilt from older heavyweights? A query to the NY,NH&H RR historical group may be in order as you may be trying to model something starting from the wrong base car! That would be a big OOPS! . Please accept my apologies in advance if you have already done this research.

Mike, Check out this site, http://www.railroad.net/forums...hp?f=91&t=17023; it appears the O-B grill cars were all converted to coaches in the early 1950's.

jackson

Did more digging.  No apparent reason why diners if OB lightweight needed 6 wheel trucks, but they do. 

Sort of hesitant to again contact NH Historical, last time president replied quickly, did not know answer to my query, but kindly referred me to expert.  That was probably 2-3 years ago and I am not holding my breath waiting. 

Will continue exploring and see what I can find.

mikeg

Mike, just sent you an email.

Bob, hate to destroy car. Trying GGD and MTH parts, if no will destroy car.

mikeg

Mike,

i think the two cars you posted pics of at the beginning of this thread were not Osgood Bradley cars but were Pullman Standard cars as referenced on the page http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/NH.htm. The first car in your photo is NH #959, Pullman Standard corrugated grill car (ref. North East Rails) and the second car in your photo is NH "Roger Sherman" Pullman Standard corrugated grill car from Railfan.Net submitted by a Gary Morris and inaccurately titled "NH American Flyer Diner" (hence then assumed to be a O-B car).

Hopefully you haven't started chopping up some of those nice Weaver O-B coaches yet!

jackson

In the above 2 posts,

i have tried to contact GGD for the trucks. 

Thanks for the photo section, I had used PRR in past but completely forgot about that site. 

Jackson said the diners-grill cars are PS not PB. 

The Shore Line book from Kalmback show pix of Miles Standish as a diner on Merchants limited. 

Also these Diners? have the rounded roof ends that appear identical to OB roof ends, 

The book also show a picture of a streamlined PS cars all of which have the PS square end. 

I have tried the NHHS without luck so far.  The forum is protected by Yuku which despite education and knowledge I cannot get past.  Then yuku noted the last posting was 2005. 

I am really not trying to reinvent the wheel or drag this out.  I think the only thing remaining that I need are the six wheel trucks from GGD if available and the nerve to begin grinding the walls to correct window placement. 

Thanks to the many who have contributed to this undertaking,

mikeg

Mike,

Have you looked at Allegheny Scale Models for trucks:

http://alleghenyscale.com/O%20...General%20Trucks.htm

O scale trucks are not the cheapest thing in the world are they?  I got a pair of trucks from GGD a couple of years ago, expensive but they were the closest thing I could find and Scott was more than willing to sell them at the time.

It's a shame when the trucks not only hold up a project, but cost more than the project originally.  I'm still waiting for someone to offer a decent set of Dalman (Dahlman) style trucks to replace the Keil-Line trucks I have under my SAL boxcar:

Contacted GGD today, person in parts not available today.  Awaiting a callback before doing anything else.

Have logged on to NHHS forum and picked all types of new and interesting info.

Anyone interested, under Patriot question.  Now on page two. 

mikeg

The only mistake was when I thought I was wrong.  There is glory in a great mistake. 

I have been searching for info on the Patriot and when I was given info on train makeup I found I was looking for the Colonial. 

The Colonial was interesting in that it had a B60 baggage, 6 or 7 coaches which were single vestibule 64 seat 16 seat smoking lounges, a grill car (6 wheel trucks) by PS not PB, 2 parlor cars, a baggage, lounge, parlor and 31 seat car and surprise 3 Seaboard coaches from the Silver Comet and 1 RFP 10-6 Pullman from the Silver Star all thru from NY to Washington.  

Bob I may need to contact OK engines again for more Seaboard cars.  If I proceed down this primrose path, I will have an extra PB C&O coach.  So far all I have done is open the box.  It appears to have still have been factory sealed. 

Does anyone know where I can obtain a B60 baggage car?

I did look at Allegheny Scale and too many choices and all are kits and I presume 2 rail scale. 

GGD only has 2 pairs of 3 rail trucks from the 20th century and will not give them up because they may need them for warranty repairs. 

I will contact Lionel and MTH (Gary) tomorrow, 3 hour time difference. 

This has become more and more interesting.

mikeg

Mike,

Reading some of the books I have I'm also surprised at the makeup of some of the "Named" trains.  Several of my books dealing with passenger trains lists what the consists were on a given day,  I guess you could expect to see anything on a train coming out of Washington D.C., NYC, or Philly.  ACL and SAL even had some cars painted in the other RRs schemes   It must have been pretty colorful to see a trains with cars from a lot of different RRs.  I guess some of the excursion trains I've seen aren't that far off the mark after all.

Bob

Interesting observation. I think researching individual named trains often turns up a wealth of information. I think the streamlined era ushered in a requirement for a premier train to have a uniform appearrance. Add to this the fact that many of these long didtance trains were joint operations of several railroads. The California Zephyr may be the best example of uniformity in train appearrance in the postwar streamlined area. The train was a joint operation of the Western Pacific, Denver and Rio Grande and Chicago Burlington and Quincy. The New York Central and the Pennsylvania jointly operated the coast to coast through car service. All the cars in the train carried the Letterboard, " The California Zephyr". Equipment was owned by the WP , D&RGW and CB&Q and this was noted with the rr initials marked on the car near the doors. The PRR owned a car in this train which was decorated in a like manner. NYC leased cars from the CB&Q. All of them carried a name in the " Siver ......" series. The PRR car was always in the same position in the Zephyr as well, just in front of the observation car. 

On the Northeast corridor we all are familiar with the train , the "Crescent" This train was a joint operation of 5 railroads who all owned equipment for it; the Southern of course but also the Pennsylvania , Atlanta and West Point, The Western and Alabama RR and the Louisville and Nashville. The appearrance of this train was uniform as well. The PRR cars were fluted sides and had lettering in the style of the Southern.

And so it could be with other trains on the corridor . There were trains jointly operated but where there was not such a requirement for uniform appearrance. So it might be common to see cars in various railroad colors in the same train . In addition, it was a practice for railroads to lease cars from other railroads to aument equipment needs due to seasonal demand, ACL diners found work on the East Wind train to Maine during the summer when the Flrida service demand might not be so large. I saw a cosist in a book once for a Seaboard train that was made up entirely of PRR cars.

This certainly presents the opportunity for O scalers to make up trains with cars of other railroads in their colors and points out the vgalue and fun in reseaching the trains service patterns, operation history and schedules over the years to make for interesting modelling.

Guys,

Here's a photo of the end of a Weaver PB car (thanks again Mike!):

What is the large rectangular thing on the roof?  I'm in the process of removing the paint to repaint it into an Seaboard car but can't find anything that indicates what this is or that it was used on the SAL cars.

Looking over all my info, it appears to be a hatch over the air conditioner.  Only one series had it and most did not. 

Bob, somewhere you posted pix of Seaboard coach and combine in PB configuration.  I cannot remember where, but probably answers the question. 

mikeg

Thanks Mike, none of the photos I have show that cover, even the builder's drawing indicates nothing.

The 2 windows on both sides of one end aren't correct for the SAL car (the last small window should be swapped for the large window to its left in the photo), but I don't think I'm in the mood to hack away at it.

I may removed the center posts and make the windows the larger variety, but then they would be too tall, always having to compromise when it comes to SAL

I just got my Model Flex SAL Pullman Green paint (I think it's a bit lighter shade than regular Pullman green) I ordered from Walthers today and I'm making a fixture out of a 12" piece of 4" pvc pipe to submerse the body into isopropyl alcohol to strip the paint.  I was going to use a glass vase/cylinder but then the idea to use pvc hit me.  I've glued a cap on one end so the alcohol doesn't leak out and once one end of the body is done I'll swap it end over end in the pipe to complete the paint removal.

Here's a drawing I found in one of the books by Larry Goolsby of the Seaboard BP coach:

Bob,

Similar drawings of the 2 versions of the O-B coaches used by the LV and be found in the book "Lehigh Valley Passenger Cars" by M. Mickey & David Warfel.

jackson

Weaver also made them in Canadian Pacific, I bought two from a forum member, and I have been searching on eBay for at least six months and have not found any more.

Its on the Weaver website, you have to paw with the pdfs for the various years.

Yesterday I finished removing 99% of the paint from the body.  Today I moved the 3 windows on each side of the body at one end so they would match those of the SAL cars:

That is some thick plastic   I used the thinnest Xacto blades I had and made many, slow cuts until I could get a thin razor saw blade in to finish the job.  I had to add some .015" thick styrene to the top and bottom of the pieces I cut out to get them back to the proper height so they would fit solidly in the cutouts.  The good thing is there's grooves in the styrene where I made the cuts, so I used them as a guide.

I don't know if I can clean them up any better than what I have done already but once I'm satisfied it's off to get painted (finally get to use my new compressor!) with ModelFlex Seaboard-Pullman Green paint.

I'm going with the original design to start with on this car, so the windows will stay like they are.  The decals I have also match the original lettering.  I still need to redo the interior seating to make room for the bathrooms on both ends.

Don't know if I'll try to turn the other car into a modernized coach, the windows and siding would all have to be cut out and replaced, plus I'd have to get/make new decals.

Bob,

I have been dragging on cutting and was thinking about using dremel flex shaft with wheel on end.  Did you even consider using power to cut the frame? 

When you are cutting 10 end steps and moving windows you get lazy fast. 

mikeg

Mike, I didn't want to take away anymore material than necessary, that's the only reason I used a thin blade instead of the Dremel.  Doing one or two cars with the knife blade isn't that big a deal, but if you have more than that you're gonna need fingertip protection.  Just the downward pressure on the knife has my hands in knots.  I'm going to finish this car before I decide to do the other one.  I was also concerned about accuracy with the Dremel, my hands shake enough without the motor adding to it.

The ideal thing may be to use a tiny laser beam to cut the plastic, I wonder if any shops offer that service?

Oh...Another reason I used the blade(s) was to keep as much molded-on detail as possible.

One other thing, the piece I cut out from the left side I used on the right side and vice-versa, that also kept more detail from being lost.

You may be able to use one of those really thin cutting disks if you can go slow enough so as not to melt the plastic and yet have control over the cut.  You might want to make a few cuts with a blade first then try the Dremel to finish the job.

I would be very cautious using a Dremel; When i made my O-B cars i tried it on some expendable areas but couldn't slow the tool down enough not to melt the plastic while holding it steady long enough to get an accurate cut. A fellow model railroader who works at GE tried using one of their very high tech water (or maybe it was nitrogen) cooled laser cutters -- still melted the plastic. Where we could we made some cuts using a very fine toothed band saw running extremely slow. Otherwise it was done the same way Bob is doing it. Good luck.

jackson

Anyone know if there's an adapter on the 2-rail version for Kadee couplers?  I was measuring this morning and figured I'll need a 1/4" shim unless they made adapter plates to get the Kadees low enough.

Bob,

I found commercially made shims at Micro mark.  The only problem is you need so many.  I just cut small pieces of styrene and stacked them.  Not very aesthetic I know but it works. 

mikeg

Tried to post to SikverMeteor blog and it is locked, so here goes. 

I contacted Ted at OK Engines and obtained 2 more shells.  One is Seaboard coach and other is RF&P 10-6 Pullman. 

The Colonial from Boston to Washington  from NY south carried 3 Seaboard coaches and one RF&P 10-6 Pullman on end of train to Washington and points south. 

Only problem was they were attached to baggage end on NH parlor and how did they get to diner or was that verboten. 

i will delete 2 PB and add two streamlined card on end.  4 is too much and deleting 2 PB gives Bob two Seaboard coaches. 

Great deal for all concerned. 

mikeg

Mike,

Was the Colonial a PRR train?  I'm surprised that SAL cars got that far (Boston) up north.

Oh...found out you DON'T want to use "old" Model Flex paint.

I had 1 bottle, maybe 2+ years old.  I bought 4 new bottles but used the old one (it looked fine) for the initial coat.  I'm not sure if I had previously thinned it or not but it puddled up real good.  I then sprayed a coat of new but that did little good at that point.  The car is in the alcohol bath as I type, I'll give it another go tomorrow with the NEW paint!  Toss that old paint out!!!  I read on another forum that the old paint doesn't hold up well and now I believe it (another learning experience)

Bob,

Colonial was a NH train from Boston to Washington.  The info on Seaboard & RFP cars on end was on a PRR document of consists of trains from NYC to Washington.

Personally have no idea if cars were attached at Penn Sta or were thru cars from Boston.

mikeg

 Bob, I added Kadee's to mine. I used the 2 outside holes on the Kadee. I removed the end gates from the cars. These holes seem to line right up with the 2 outer mounts of the Kadee. The couplers sit right under the diaphrams and seem okay on 072 curves. As far as shimming the coupler. I used what looks like 2 pieces of basswood stock the fits between the screws. 2 pads from the MTH cars may be close and look a little better.

Thanks Dave

I slid the car over the Kadee coupler gauge, that's when I noticed the rather large gap between the gauge and the bottom of the underframe.

I think I'll make a 1/4" thick shim that will fill up the space between the steps and long enough to mount the couplers.  Seems like filling the space up makes the shim less noticeable, I've done it on other passenger cars.

I like the way Weaver mounted the claw-coupler, slick-looking mounting arm.

I need to start figuring out what I'm going to do to the interior.  I need to remove a coupler of seats and build the walls for the toilets.

These are very well-built passenger cars, thanks again Mike!

I am almost ready to begin cutting. 

One question to previous cutters.  After you cut above and below windows, did you scribe and then break the plastic or what to remove the cut area? 

I don't see how to cut in that very small area with a zona saw or any other saw.  Probably obvious but.

mikeg

Mike,

I used the thin Xacto blade to make as many cuts as I felt necessary so that once I used a saw blade it wouldn't wander off the path.

I have an old Xacto saw blade (that WAS attached to a metal handle at one time):

http://www.hobbypeople.net/med...e95/5/7/574539_6.jpg

and used that to make the final cuts (didn't break the joint, cut all the way thru).  This saw blade is also very thin, both blades were the about same thickness as the grooves where you will make your cuts.

If your Zona blade is thin it should do the job, just be ready to add some styrene strips at the cut joints because you will be removing some material when you make the cuts.  If you position these strips lower than the outer edge of the window pieces you remove it'll give you back the grooves where you made the cut (man I hope that makes sense )

I think that I did not make myself clear.

You cut above and below windows, great now how do you cut the piece out of frame, without marring cut piece or frame?

mikeg

If you mean the 3rd side (small side), I used all Xacto blade on that, tedious work for sure.  Once both sides are cut I swapped left for right pieces (so the rivet pattern would match).

Wouldn't it be cool if they would make a passenger car that had moveable windows, like this old puzzle that had sliding pieces in it:

Windows could be arranged however you wanted, what a concept!