Question about Gargraves

short answer is Ross switches are the best. stainless resists corrosion better, but if you  run magnetraction you will have traction problems pulling any consist of length.

Hello Bob! Ross Switches are just the best that money can buy.

I am in the process right now of building  new layout,and this is my first time using Ross Switches.They just operate so smoothly,there is NOTHING out there that can come close to the design quality and customer service if you do happen to run into a problem.

 

I am using Gargraves Flex track for the track work,but Ross switches were designed to work with Gargraves track,although Ross now is making their own track also.The advantage of using Gargraves track is mainly one of cost,but if I could afford it,I would be using Ross track as well.

I did a lot of shopping around before I settled on this combination,and although Ross switches are a little pricey,they are hand made,have stood the test of time,and worth every penny of their cost. That's my opinion.

I am Ross all the way, for switches and track, except in the very few spots where I needed custom curves. My layout is probably more modest than many here which made the cost difference on the track a non issue. I prefer the more uniform height and width of using all Ross, and the spikes in the Ross track are a nice touch.

 

i don't have experience with stainless track.

I was in York in April and placed my order for Ross switches for pick up. When I picked up my order Ross switches was selling Gargraves flex track. If that tell you anything...

There's really no reason to use stainless unless you are building outdoors. Then you have a different problem, because I don't think anyone makes a stainless switch. Regular is cheaper anyway.

 Yes, or I might add, have a basement that's damp or is real humid.

Ross makes his own brand of track also.  The thickness of Ross track and switches is much thicker than Gargraves.  Ross is the best track product available.

Cost, ease of bending, the Phantom rail, and availability was the reason for the GG choice years ago.

Ross switches were the best, and easier to find then the track was.

 

On stainless, voltage drop is higher per foot than regular track. The connection at the wheels too. You should use more drops with stainless, or nickel silver.

I think the nickel silver conducts better, and still gives great corrosion resistance as well as having dirt shedding properties. 

From all the Ross and Gargraves track I have...all the Ross track/switches is spiked to the ties, the Gargraves track is embedded into the ties in slots cut into the wood.

 

I decided on using Ross switches and curved sections while using Gargraves flex track for straights and adjoining makeup pieces.

This is used Gargraves flex track.  We fabricated a circle gauge for the curves.

 Mike CT

At my club we use Gargraves track for it's realistic look. The wooden ties are natural insulators between outside rails so if you want to use isolated track as train detectors Gargraves is a good choice. Bending your own curves may be a little more time consuming but it allows you to better fit into a space since you don't have to use standard radius curves. Stainless steel track may be better for rust prevention but it is more expensive and harder to solder to. You need to use silver solder since regular electrical solder doesn't solder well to stainless steel. For most uses the regular track is sufficient.

 

We have been replacing our Gargraves switches with Ross. Ross is better made. It looks better, it has more choices as to switch type and size and is more reliable. We have had some problem with Gargrave switches that need repair. A common problem is the keeper rail becoming loose or detaching. 

We have GG stainless track on the stone bridge on our modular layout. It consistently stays cleaner, longer, than the Atlas track on the remainder of the layout.

Gargraves track, Ross switches. 

 

Yes, Ross sells Gargraves flex track....because Ross' track design (staple-spikes) does not lend itself easily to a flexible track product. 

 

Although it's not published in either company's spiel, I believe the two have a synergistic (word-of-the-day?) and complementary relationship they'd probably only toast to in a dark corner of a pub somewhere. 

 

When I designed my layout using RR-Track software, I tried to use stock curves wherever possible...bending the flex track smoothly has a learning curve and some inherent waste.  However, it is not only necessary but also esthetically pleasing to occasionally marry up two points on a track alignment with a smooth, free-formed curve not commercially available from either source.

 

The big advantages to Ross switches, IMHO, are the great variety of product, the smooth operation, the craftsman-like workmanship.  The advantage of Gargraves track, IMHO, is it's flexibility.  Since Ross uses staple-spikes to fasten their rails to the wood ties, the appearance (arguably more realistic?) is essentially different from Ross's trackwork, since GG uses no staples, no spikes.

 

Therefore, in order to keep some uniformity in the appearance of my layout track, I decided to use Gargraves everywhere...straights, curves, etc.... except for the switches.  And the plethora of spikes/staples on the Ross switches actually added (IMHO, again) to the overall appearance by drawing attention to their added complexity and special function.  Besides, if you consider a prototype switch construction, they have rail supports and fasteners that create a more complicated appearance than that of the approach tracks.

 

Anyhow, the two products look great, work great, are American-made, and, arguably, are cost effective.   And in regard to the latter, BTW, did anyone take the time to read Steve Brenneisen's (Ross advertisement) price comparison with another track manufacturer in the latest issue of OGR???  Holy moly!....I had no idea how much overseas manufacturing had changed the pricing landscape...as well as availability ()...lately!!!

 

So, it really boils down to TEHO. 

 

But since you asked....

 

KD

If you use Gargraves in a damp area, use stainless or you will be sorry.

I am Gargraves track, flex, and GG and Ross turnouts. 

The Ross turnouts are just a bit nicer than the GG in operation and looks......but cost a good bit more. 

Kinda like a good vs very good situation. Both work fine.

Some very early GG are not as nice and I junk them.  Got a few in used lots I bought. 

PS.....I use Atlas 22.5 crossovers too! They work well with GG and Ross. 

I use Ross switches and Gargraves track. The switches are flawless and once you get used to installing Gargraves track it operates flawlessly also!

I use Gargraves switches, primarily because of the price differential.  Some of mine are 30+ years old and work ok, but a few of these old switches seem to have had the points bend from the constant hammering of heavy loco traffic.  I see the newer Gargraves switches have the points made differently, more substantial.

 

Over the years, I have found Gargraves to be very willing to stand behind their product.

Go back some years and you will find that Ross is a GG spinoff. Ross products used GG rail for years until they bought their own rail making machinery. So the two company's have always worked together for our benefit.

I hate to burst your bubble about using stainless steel Gargraves track but down here in southeast Florida stainless steel is the best because of indoor moisture problems. I have seen regular Gargraves track rust at a hobby shop.

 

One problem I have with Gargraves switches is that not many of my MTH steam engines like Gargraves switches. So I will try Ross Custom switches.

However all my Williams engines do well with Gargraves switches.

 

I have used Gargraves and 027 straight track together for a ceiling layout before.

 

Lee Fritz

Lee, all my Gargraves are 100" or O-72, and haven't had any problems with MTH locos, but I'd be interested in hearing more details, like locos affected and switch sizes.

 

Ross used to be Ross-Curtis.  They split up and after while, Curtis ceased to operate.

As others have said, GG flex track is my choice overall.  I have been migrating from GG switches to Ross in the heavily traveled areas of the layout for the simple fact that they work ALL THE TIME.  My older GG switches did rust a bit in my humid basement.  As for flexing the track, it is sort of like learning to ride a bicycle, you can't adequately describe the proper technique but once you do it correctly you can do it again forever.  Also GG track is very available both new and on the secondary market at a lower price point when compared to ScaleTrax or Atlas.  If you are starting fresh, have unlimited funds and want a superior overall look, those two deserve consideration.  

Don't forget you can paint track to prevent rust

Good luck painting that track.  OK for a small layout.

The Gargarves switches are 042 and MTH engines that I have been having problems with are the MTH steam engine; Reading Lines T-1 4-8-4 northern(20-3130-1) and an MTH Reading Lines steam engine cab # 117 a 4-6-2(30-1152-1). The front wheels won't stay on track at the switch and I have tried many things to solve the problem, mostly track leveling.

If I use a Lionel or K-Line type of tubular switch they don't have any problem.

 

Just bought a Reading Lines SD-70 ACe in Norfolk Southern heritage series(30-20135-1) and don't know how it does as yet because I only had it on a short test track.

 

Lee Fritz

Marty,

OK for a small layout. 

As in the past, we agree to disagree a bit. It would depend on what you call "small".

 

My layout is around the walls in a 21' X 13' foot room with a 15' extension. It has 3 interconnected levels, 3 main lines (two O54 and one O42), 2 subway lines, a trolley line, a transfer table-based engine yard, and several freight yards.

 

The layout has 100 switch tracks, almost all Gargraves and Ross with a few Lionel Super O for good measure. There are enough sidings to hold 98 command control engines and a trolley, as well as approx. 200 pieces of rolling stock.

 

I run DCS and Legacy, no conventional

 

All the trackage except for switch tracks, is Gargraves tinplate with Phantom center rail. I have not removed the blackening on top of the center rail, although I have removed the track's clear, oily protective coating.

 

DCS and Legacy run fine without any issues - unless I'm testing DCS beta software!  

Takes paint fine on my small 24 x 34 foot layout......

Barry, I was talking about painting the track.  Anything past painting track on a small layout would' be a huge job.  The poster  before was talking about making Gargraves rust proof by painting it.   Not a fun job.  It will be doable for a small layout.

Lee, thanks for the info.  Back in the early 1990's, I had several sidings that used Gargraves O-42 switches.  I found that I couldn't back 10-car trains through those switches and eventually replaced them with O-72.  I had no problem when loco was pulling a train. Since I had had same problem with old Lionel 022 switches (31"), I attributed it to the sharp curves.

Dave, what process do you use to rustproof with paint?  Barry, we will always disagree on cleaning center rails.  I clean my track every week.  I have a 10 signal on every inch of track as do most operators.  I have worked on some of the big layouts and a scotchbrite to the center rail is always done.  I was very lucky many years ago when building a layout with Steve Brenneisen who taught me the correct way to bend and cut Gargraves track.  I love the big layouts.  I wish I had more room at my home.  I have worked on several of the huge layouts built by Rich Roman and Michael Hart of SMARTT.  Barry, I hold you in high esteem for your extreme knowledge of DCS and what goes on inside the wires.  I obtained what I know from hands on.  I still have your book on my coffee table in the train room as I know many others do.  We are all college educated but in different things.  The best education I have ever had related to our hobby is working on the big layouts and troubleshooting when people have an issue.  

 

When Rich Roman and SMARTT build layouts they always clean the center rail of any black material before installing the track in a layout.  Both layout builders (OGR Forum Sponsors) have tested large layouts before and after the center rail has been cleaned.

 

 

I spray mine with Dupli-color  Hot Rod Primer. Clean rail tops with lacquer thinner. 

In my damper than I'd like basement no issues yet. Running train keeps tops shiny and dupli-color seals sides as it does on automobiles. 

Use both, like both. I find GG switches to be fine - though I haven't bought any - with one exception - since 1990 (there's a fact to ponder), and they still work. But, back then, they came with no switch machines and I custom-installed - on 20+ switches - a Rix machine, and employing all the soldering and scratch-built springs that that phrase implies.

 

All were O-100 GG units. Great size; very usable.

 

I have 1 modern GG O-72 with built-in machine (lazy way to do things - actually easy to install).

 

My O-72 pre-formed mainline curves are by Curtis - now defunct. They look just like Ross.

 

I have an 8-track Ross yard set - very, very nice.

 

My old yards, not to be used by 4-8-4's - were built from and remain Lionel O-42 track

(this has the O-27 low profile), and it works well, too. It's mostly buried in dirt (well, it was, but my layout is falling apart), so the "3-tie" issue isn't screaming at you..

 

Bottom line, I prefer steel track and a robust build. GG, Ross, old Curtis, Hi-rail-appropriate Lionel, probably ROW? - all are good. 

Thanks Dave.  We have all had our day with hot rod primer.

RJR,

I am having a derailment issue when the steam engine enters the Gargraves switch from at the switched piece that moves to direct the engine or train to go straight or take the curve. Maybe the switch piece has a small burr I can't see but I am not sure.

Have not tried those engines with an 072 switch as I have a smaller layout and an 072 switch would take up too much space for me.

 

I don't have a problem with post war 022 switches and MTH engines.

 

Lee Fritz

This Fort Pitt High Railer module, (Ross Switches, and Gargraves track), was air brushed with acrylic Railroad tie brown.

 

Curtis and Ross used to be partners.

Mike, that looks fantastic.  Great job.  Love those Ross 3 way switches.

Thank you,   All the Fort Pitt rail is painted,  Track and ballast maintenance is a significant project, but well worth the effort.  Even non-train public comments about our modular layout. 

Dollar for Dollar, Pound for Pound and Inch for Inch.  Ross switches are the BEST.

 

The DZ-1000 switch machines (an option on all Ross switches) are also very reliable, easy to install and maintain and an excellent deal.

 

Over the past 2 months our club bought and installed 35 Ross switches.  ALL with the DZ-1000 machines.

 

 

Lee Willis recently posted about blackening wheels with a product called Neolube.

 A paint on conductive metal graphite treatment that lasts. That is what I got out of online research anyhow. Price isn't real cheap, but I get a feeling it might be a worthwhile solution to the "white stripe", or maybe the source of what's there. 

Good enough for nuclear reactors where it seems to be required by regulations. The cheaper version likely doesn't get pre-tested like batches for the nuclear industry do.