Does the original sound board, bell/horn in a WIlliams engine need to be removed/dismantled, inorder for the ERR sound board to operate correctly?  Another problem I see is, 10 VAC is required to initiate the ERR sound board.  @ 10VAC, the engine is running rather fast,  There appears that in neutral, regardless of VAC, no sound is activated.  Only at high speed.

Additionally, the bell continually rings, as power is applied, the motive power begins to sound but then immediately shuts down, when voltage drops below 10VAC...  The install was performed exactly to directions included with the sound kit, on the ERR website.  I thank you in advance for your assistance.     

 Quarter Gauger 48'

   

Td 

 

Original Post

No pinched wires, tryed a Lionel 80 watt and Atlas 75 watt industrial transformer'. and followed directions to the letter.  I'm pretty decent at electronics, and why I'm baffled by this.  Just wondering if the original bell.horn sound board is interfering with the Err sound board.......

 Quarter Gauger 48'

   

Td 

 

Did you say DC?  The ERR sound board is ONLY compatible with AC in conventional mode.  A DC offset on the tracks will cause continuous bell or horn, that's how the transformer signals for those to be activated.

Since you run conventional, just use some series diode pairs in one motor lead to drop the voltage to the motor and thus raise the required track voltage.

For conventional, you obviously also should consider a battery, I like my YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement, but I do have a dog in that fight.

No DC, John, My layout is AC.  I have a 9 Volt battery installed.  I have lighted (AC) bulbs in several cars to pull juice.  

The instructions state" the 10 volts AC is required to enable startup sounds... I think the ERR board will not work correctly in a Williams, without the ERR cruise commander as well.... This isn't the first 100 bucks I have wasted trying different things in the hobby.  I am disappointed though that I just didn't go with the Williams sound board for 10 bucks less. Whether the sound is  rated not as good as the ERR system, I could have lived with it........  

 Quarter Gauger 48'

   

Td 

 

What transformer are you using?  I find that the MTH Z-1000 seems to be somewhat troublesome for conventional use, it frequently will ring the bells or honk the horn for conventional testing.

The diode advice still applies.

If the boards are both fed from rollers, and aren't sharing other connections, there shouldn't be an issue.  That would prevent the two brands from running together period if that is the case.

I'd try lifting one of the Williams boards connections or whatever, and test the ERR board solo. Move to another power supply to test it also (I didn't even know Atlas made power supplies. If the design is chock full of electronics, chances are good that's the issue)... it should work on the Lionel supply; but just for fun which Lionel power supply? (some output differently than others)

A short on the track or in a car, etc. can also throw a dc offset into the mix. So can mixing some metals at contact joints (I dislike aluminum in electric connections because of this... it likes to mess with me.) 

When you test, disconnect anything not involved with a test. In particular the power supplies. (not just off, disconnected)

A single led if not balanced by another led/diode can produce an offset too. Any singles added to the layout?

(I mention this because some folk recently have found some led that don't burn out on ac without reverse protection, and I bet folks are trying it... but that can create an offset too; an led is still a diode.  Lay an 8a diode across your rails and listen to the whistle blow. Reverse it and you'll hear the bell..... hold it there and... you'll burn your fingers 😰 😏 😂...so use the other dyi button method threads to be serious about using them for dyi whistle/horn/bell. )

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





Adriatic,

Thank you for reading the first post accurately.  The ATlas transformer is not loaded with any electro gizmos.  It is a plain heavy duty conventional AC out transformer.  The rollers are providing individual independent power to each unit.   Personally I think, the 10 volts required to activate the sound board is the problem...AT 10 volts, these Williams engines fly.  When backing off on power the sound board cuts out.  The real mystery is, why the bell keeps ringing????

I will experiment some more. If I don't get positive results, I will pull it out, and install a williams sound kit.  If that don't work.  I will move on and forget about sound in this unit....... Thank you for your input'.....

 Quarter Gauger 48'

   

Td 

 

I use an ERR RailSounds board in my conventional Williams GP9. I removed the Williams board and speaker first. 

Consider wiring your loco in series—that will slow it down a bit.

I also used to use a WBB transformer, which was a rebranded Atlas, and it worked fine. You had to press the bell button for several seconds to turn it on and off.

Finally, I’m a fan of GRJ’s YLB. It provides a nice piece of mind, works well, and is easy to install.

—Matt

First, I would just unpower the Williams sound board to see if that resolves this.  SInce your running conventional, both sound boards would activate on a bell or horn/whistle trigger.  You did not say if this is steam or diesel.  So the parallel motor trick only is good for dual motor engines (diesel).

Second, does this use motor power to a light via diode to get directional lighting?  If so that is a possible source for constant bell.  Or a stray motor lead touching the can of the motor.  It does not take much.  G

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Lionel Independent Repair Tech

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Folks, I doubt that adding a single LED to the mix will generate enough DC offset to trigger a horn or bell, there has to be something else in the picture.  Also, adding a protection diode to an LED doesn't change any DC offset it might generate, it only protects the LED from excess reverse voltage.

GGG posted:

First, I would just unpower the Williams sound board to see if that resolves this.  SInce your running conventional, both sound boards would activate on a bell or horn/whistle trigger.  You did not say if this is steam or diesel.  So the parallel motor trick only is good for dual motor engines (diesel).

Second, does this use motor power to a light via diode to get directional lighting?  If so that is a possible source for constant bell.  Or a stray motor lead touching the can of the motor.  It does not take much.  G

Thanks for your response'.  It is a twin motor, 2 AC incandescent bulbs, non directional.  I will follow your recommendations and see what results I get'. Thanks very much'.. 

 

 Quarter Gauger 48'

   

Td 

 

     'Sound install Update'

To all that made recommendations and comments to the thread, and those members that may want to install an ERR sound kit into a WIlliams engine that is only equipped with a horn and bell system.  

I decided to reverse the the power connectors form their prescribed locations. I took the power lead from the installed williams board and plugged that one into the open port on the Reverse board.  I plugged the ERR power lead into port for the original williams sound board.  And the Err sound board came alive.  IN neutral, all 6 motive sounds play beautifully.  In forward, the motive power sound is in the 3rd rev up sound.  AT 10VAC horn and bell sound and motive sounds rev up accordingly. 

In lower speed, horn and bell do not activate.  But the motive power rev up and down is quite impressive.  The sound from the speakers is vibrating in the original williams baffle that I will add some foam to absorb the vibrations. 

 [Epilog] So by switching the power leads solved the problem contrary to the ERR instructions.  Perhaps, the williams boards in this particular model are not receptive to the normal prescribed set up in the ERR standard directions.  I will send Scott Mann, a copy of this post for his reference.  The Williams, SD-40 locomotives electronics are dated 2004 on the circuit boards.  Here is a photo of the interiors components.

IMG_20190426_153329683_HDR [002)IMG_20190426_153415757_HDR [002)IMG_20190426_153531898 [002)

 Quarter Gauger 48'

   

Td 

 

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I received a very positive and receptive response from Scott, if future sound board installs encounter similar complications in "Williams" Locomotives.

 

That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing with everyone too. If we hear about this again, we will know what to suggest. Our instructions don't incorporate all possible installs. But this seems worthy of some modifications to the instructions.

 

Scott

 

 Quarter Gauger 48'

   

Td 

 

It's probably not a big surprise that the polarity of the leads are reversed, that makes perfect sense.  Usually, I figure that out when the whistle button rings the bell.

I am confused about what you did without a picture of the Williams board, but if you did what I think originally, you had the ERR Sound board connected to a motor take off on the Williams board which is probably what was causing erratic bell/horn.   That other port is a little unknow about what comes out of it.

Typically, you splice directly into the leads coming off the pickup rollers and the chassis ground.  Sometimes Williams reverse wire color from the traditional red is pickup roller, black is chassis.  But that is the most reliable method.  I do realize you might have had to cut the wire to splice it.

You never really stated clearly where you where getting AC power from for the ERR board in your original post. Which I think is why you had use confused.  G

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Lionel Independent Repair Tech

Virginia Train Collectors Member

GGG posted:

I am confused about what you did without a picture of the Williams board, but if you did what I think originally, you had the ERR Sound board connected to a motor take off on the Williams board which is probably what was causing erratic bell/horn.   That other port is a little unknown about what comes out of it.

Track power is available at the 2-pin port, it's there to support a sound board.

John, You need to go look at a Williams reverse unit, and reread his post.   Your not comprehending what happened.  HE did not just reverse leads to get it to work.  He had it plugged into the wrong port on the reverse board.  There are 2 2pin ports.  One is AC power for sound board, but he left the original Williams sound board plugged in.  That other port is not a AC pickup it is some sort of slave connection.  Hence why his ERR sound board was not working right. It was not on AC track power, it was on the wrong port.  G

MTH Authorized Service Center

Authorized ERR Dealer

Lionel Independent Repair Tech

Virginia Train Collectors Member

Yep, I see that in his pictures now.  Apparently, both of the extra 2-pin connectors come from the motor drive, at least that's what my meter says.  The only one that has track power for the sound board is the bottom one next to the four pin connectors in his picture.

The odd part is, I'd swear at one point on those boards both connectors in line with the 4-pin ones came from track power, I may just be confused.

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