Hi Guys - I just purchased a Old restored 248 Engine off the Bay.  Seller said in good working order. Upon testing I noticed no light (not light bulb related) and the engine ran very sluggish with needed extra power to get the engine moving. After the engine ran around the track about 10-15 times the Engine stopped and appeared to be over heated - body became very warm to the touch.

Any help on what might be going on would be appreciated.

Ken 

Original Post

Ken, take this with a grain of salt ok... I am no expert.

I recently had one of my newly acquired 252's with very similar sounding issues and upon tear down and inspection I found the winding's in the motor to be shot. There was enamel peeling off of some of the winding's causing dead shorts.

The repair... lol still looking for an economical donor.

Ted

Ted, the SoDak O-27 Railfan!

Ken,

I offer you advice speaking as from the voice of experience. If you ever purchase another, take it apart and completely service the unit BEFORE you run it on your track. To do anything else is well........extremely unwise. By doing a complete service YOU as a wise buyer can notify the seller immediately in case of any untruths in his listing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

Respectfully,

"Pappy"

My Two-Cents                 

 

Thanks Guys! I removed the body last evening and lubed up all the important parts - It appears to be running fine at this point - and is no longer heating up - Still a bit noisy - but I think that is the nature of the beast of a Loco this old.  Still no lamp - So I will check it with a volt meter over the next couple days. But at this point I am a happy camper.

Ken 

I have a 249E from the pre war era, still runs good. The older engines need more service to keep on running and I would suggest cleaning the armature brushes and contact area on the armature, I use a pencil eraser to take the crud off the armature and brushes. If the brushes have a small pit mark or are uneven a light sandpaper will smooth off the surface of the brushes.  Lube the gears & axles as well.

Lee Fritz

Philadelphia & Reading Railway, one of the first railroads in the USA, first to have a double track system in the USA.

Mythotto posted:

Hi Guys - I just purchased a Old restored 248 Engine off the Bay.  Seller said in good working order. Upon testing I noticed no light (not light bulb related) and the engine ran very sluggish with needed extra power to get the engine moving. After the engine ran around the track about 10-15 times the Engine stopped and appeared to be over heated - body became very warm to the touch.

Any help on what might be going on would be appreciated.

Ken 

What I would do is to get some CRC contact cleaner to thoroughly clean the brushes, brush holders, commutator and pickup shafts. You may consider degreasing all the bearings, gears and shafts. Then go back and apply a small dab of grease/lubricant to the gears. A drop of 30w motor oil applied to all the shafts and bearing surfaces. After doing all those items do a bench test or place the loco on the track (without the shell) and see if it works.

Let us know of your results.

Ron M 

Use a meter first and make sure that the he screw in base side is grounded to the shell and that when the shell is mounted that it is grounded to the frame of the motor, also check your bulb to make sure it is good. If there is no wire from the headlight it can be tied to the same spot that the pickup wire is going to. I believe this is one of the brush terminals. Hope this helps.

RonH

Don't Junk it, Make it Work!

 

Even though the schematic is with a reversing switch (252 loco), just trace the wire and all goes to the collector plate along and the collector plate goes to one of the armature brushes. You do not have to connect to the collector plate but rather connect to the armature brush plate using the screw connection. Use the ohm meter to buzz out the continuity from the brush plate to the collector plate to get the right brush screw. If you use solid wire it may be easier. I always use super flex stranded wire at this point so that when I take the cab on and off for servicing the sire will not be that/break brittle.

RonH

Don't Junk it, Make it Work!

 

What you have is a "late"  or at least later 252.  The headlight will have only one wire.  Check the socket by loosening the bulb, bending the retainer back, removing the reddish contractor.  Put it back in with the lil screw holding the wire facing the front.  Right now, its facing the rear and not making contact.  If the bulb tests out ok then put it back in making sure that the lil square contact on the reddish contractor is centered in the socket.... The rest of the wiring looks fine based on the pictures... a good cleaning may do it.  Also lube it with some good synthetic lightweight oil...that is also key.

The brush plate looks right for that type of motor...it is a Type 7 from 1930.

Prewar Tin...Any maker, any gauge, anytime!

If the bulb and socket are good (use a ohm meter) the check the ground from the screw part of the light bulb to the frame of the motor. Looks like a good restoration and the paint on the frame and shell may be creating a open and not shorted to create another electrical path. What I did to avoid this problem is to run another wire from the cast headlight to the frame of the motor. I also use small wire terminals to be held with the screws,

RonH

Don't Junk it, Make it Work!

 

RonH posted:

If the bulb and socket are good (use a ohm meter) the check the ground from the screw part of the light bulb to the frame of the motor. Looks like a good restoration and the paint on the frame and shell may be creating a open and not shorted to create another electrical path. What I did to avoid this problem is to run another wire from the cast headlight to the frame of the motor. I also use small wire terminals to be held with the screws,

That's a great idea Ron. I am going to use that on my 252!

Ted, the SoDak O-27 Railfan!

Thanks Ted I use the super flex stranded wire (22 awg), has about 50 to sixty strands and has a silicone jacket. The reason for this wire is that it flexes when you take the body of and on for servicing. On one of my 248 and a 253 I also installed a cab light (radio shack bulb holder) and brought down the brightness with some resistors. I also painted part of the bulb not to shine on the track. Easy modifications without altering the frame or motor and always could be brought back to original.

RonH

Don't Junk it, Make it Work!

 

Thanks for the info, Ken.

I am running a 430 in my 252 right now but ordered some 432 bulbs to try out. Basically a 430 but rated to 18V. I also ordered up a directional LED in the E10 base rated and regulated at 18V.

Thanks for the inspiration... I bought a 248 tonight for next year's Christmas train. It will be highly modified.

Ted

Ted, the SoDak O-27 Railfan!

I did a post on 6/18/2015 "Restoration of a Lionel 248 Project" (you can search this up by using the magnify glass icon on the top bar), this also explains some of the mods that I did. I still have 3 more 248's to restore, they are fun to do and there are many parts available. There is a attachment with the before and after photos. 
Please post some pictures of your 248's.

 

RonH

Don't Junk it, Make it Work!

 

Attachments

Photos (1)

248 an interestingly simple engine. A scaled down 8 with as many color combos, and different number plates (Brass vs painted). Common colors are orange and red, also found in dark green, peacock and olive green. Never a wafer reverse and single light. Rare version did not have handrails (using left over shells from ives transition run). If interested I have examples of all of these.

This is from trains 99 site (he did an excellent write up on many of these subjects

Sounds like you have quit a 248 collection. I only have 4, 1 has been restored and the other 3 are in line. 

Train 99 does have a lot of information on this engine. Would like to see a picture of the one with no handrails.

RonH

Don't Junk it, Make it Work!

 

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