RAILROAD SIGNALS

There isn't very much to go on here. No seller listed, no maker, no former post link, etc.  just a part number, price & photo.

Adriatic posted:

There isn't very much to go on here. No seller listed, no maker, no former post link, etc.  just a part number, price & photo.

These things are on eBay. If you just search under model railroad signals you will find loads of them. There isn't much information to go on that's why I'm asking.

eBay: 253170050795

They actually look like a step up from the Chinese ones I've picked up, nice that the poles are painted and the backs are finished.

They are just bare LED's with one dropping resistor, so you need a controller that provides outputs for three-aspect signals individually, they're designed to operate on 12VDC.  Positive voltage on the common lead and ground on the light you want to light.

In order to use these, you'll need something like this controller, eBay: 150757223236

Not much information, but the guy sure has a lot of train stuff in all sizes it seams! Im going to have to check them out more!

There is a close cousin from NJ International

Give a look at the new WeHonest direct sale website.  He's got some good looking O-gauge signals at very good prices!  Here's a couple of samples.

This one comes with the flasher board, very cool for $4.72!

Wasn't aware WeHonest had a store now, thanks for another good tip! I have some of their items from ebay and it's pretty good stuff. Very reasonably priced too, or it was last time I ordered anyway.

I believe the pricing on their personal site is even cheaper than the eBay store.  There are some pretty good deals for some decent looking signals on their personal site.

Does anyone here know of a manufacturer making O gauge Darth Vader signals yet ?

You could control any of these signals with a simple rotary switch if you wanted manual control - ie tower operator or Dispatcher.

For example on a single track line, you put two signals at a block boundary, one facing each way.    Then  you install a 3 position single pole rotary switch.    One pole clears eastbound, one pole clears west bound, and the center pole between them sets both signals to stop.

Neat idea for manual control, works well and is dead reliable.

I'd be inclined to buy a bunch of their signals if there were boards to buy that gave automatic control like the Atlas signals did.  If I install signals I don't ones that time out to green from yellow, I want them to actually stay yellow until the next block is clear.

I've been mulling over the possibility of designing such a board.  It seems to be a need if you want to step up from individual control to chaining the signals so that adjacent blocks can also affect the signals.  Maybe I'll start a thread to see what the consensus is on the desired functionality.

I'm thinking of not only the adjacent block capability, but also the ability to control flashing RR crossing signals.  Then there's the topic of multiple tracks that might come up...

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Neat idea for manual control, works well and is dead reliable.

Hi John,

I take it you can't work these with an ITAD?

thanks

sinclair posted:

I'd be inclined to buy a bunch of their signals if there were boards to buy that gave automatic control like the Atlas signals did.  If I install signals I don't ones that time out to green from yellow, I want them to actually stay yellow until the next block is clear.

Azatrax has a block signal control board that integrates. It's designed for LED signals. Here's the link: http://www.azatrax.com/block-signal-circuit.html

The WeHonest LED signals are perfect for this, but I think you have to remove the dropping resistor from the common.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've been mulling over the possibility of designing such a board.  It seems to be a need if you want to step up from individual control to chaining the signals so that adjacent blocks can also affect the signals.  Maybe I'll start a thread to see what the consensus is on the desired functionality.

I'm thinking of not only the adjacent block capability, but also the ability to control flashing RR crossing signals.  Then there's the topic of multiple tracks that might come up...

I know Terry at Custom Signals, had that concept kind of I was planning on getting all the boards to do that, since I had him do a Signal Plan for me, but that idea is not really going to work any more. Since I am going to have my track plan redesigned. Also, doesn't Atlas signals have the ability to do that as well. Though I think simplified a bit. Though I don't think their boards could control Flashing RR Signals.

Though some thing else that may come up would be the different types of signals out there. That may or may not work all the same way.

I would be up for something like that.

Of course there is the option that AGHRMATT mentioned as well.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've been mulling over the possibility of designing such a board.  It seems to be a need if you want to step up from individual control to chaining the signals so that adjacent blocks can also affect the signals.  Maybe I'll start a thread to see what the consensus is on the desired functionality.

I'm thinking of not only the adjacent block capability, but also the ability to control flashing RR crossing signals.  Then there's the topic of multiple tracks that might come up...

John,

The bidirectional control easy to accomplish? Had spoken with the guy who I think designed the Atlas equipment and with crossovers plus passing sidings the wiring, signals and boards signaling trains going both directions was more than I could afford for two mains. Looking forward to your solution. Both the manufacturers listed provide good equipment and are great to work with. WeHonest has even sent some things packaged in thin wood inside the box. Most of our guests just love seeing all the lights being illuminated, even if they don't change colors.

Well, bidirectional control kinda' implies multiple tracks.  Having signals that react to trains going different directions on the same tracks would require some capability of determining the direction of travel.  This can be done with multiple IR sensors for a block, but not really using insulated tracks.

Different directions on the same track is probably common on layouts, as few have room for a double mainline.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, bidirectional control kinda' implies multiple tracks.  Having signals that react to trains going different directions on the same tracks would require some capability of determining the direction of travel.  This can be done with multiple IR sensors for a block, but not really using insulated tracks.

Terry at Custom Signals had a board called a "Tumble Down Controller" that was made for this application and used insulated rails.  If you have single track between town A and town B with multiple signal blocks along that track, the board detects when a train enters the single track from town A.  All of the signals in the opposite direction (from town B to town A) are automatically set to the STOP indication. 

Signals in the direction from town A to B act according to automatic block signalling (when the train has moved completely into the second block, the signal at the beginning of the second block displays STOP while the signal at the beginning of the first block changes to APPROACH.

Makes sense Bob, that could certainly be done.

Almost anything can be done, but at what price and what is the real market for such devices? Last night one of the original members of our weekly train group came by (he's moved out of the immediate area and can't always get here). This person had his own signal business for over 10 years and made some early signals for Terry Christopher as a sub contractor. We were discussing this very subject  and his conclusion was that: you need a very large, almost club sized, layout for this type of block signaling to work, AND, our observation is that most 3 rail operators seem to be quite contented with reasonably good looking signals that light and change colors when a train passes. The market for prototypical signaling is all but nonexistent in his opinion.

On another subject, i have found We Honest to be a very reliable supplier of inexpensive products. Their signal controllers are really nice and if you  don't want to buy 5 just to try them, search their catalog carefully - just bought 2 for about $23 shipped. Also I have been trying to get them to make their round target signal heads in the most common PRR style (7 lights all amber) so far to no avail.

I'd love to see WeHonest make the PRR round signals, I'd be lined up for those!

A company called Three Rail Innovations made a board that used short blocks to sense direction for relays to run signals and accessories. They also would operate flashers. I use them for crossing gates and signals. They had so many options that I couldn't get my head wrapped around a lot of them, but I'm sure John or Stan would have no trouble.Anyone else use these?

They are long gone apparently.  Do you have a URL, perhaps we could use the Internet Archive to look at some of the old offerings.

Yes, Atlas had boards that did like I want, but they are next to impossible to find.  Atlas isn't currently releasing them, but I have heard rumors they are redoing the whole signal system.  As for signaling in both directions on the same track, you can do that with the Atlas signals, but you are buying twice as many.  You just set them up for direction independently.  Sure the price doubles, but I like it as it seemed simple to do and you could trigger them with isolated track instead of having sensors under or beside the track.

I visualize something fairly simple but flexible, perhaps with the following attributes.

• Insulated Rail Input & Optical sensor input, user selectable.
• Lamp outputs for LED or incandescent bulbs.
• 3-aspect signal capability (red, yellow, green) with automatic delay.
• RR Crossing flasher outputs.
• Output for occupied track section for chaining signals (optional use).
• Input for next track occupied for chaining signals (optional use).

This would fill most of the basic requirements.  I'm sure there are tons of other things you could do, but you can also drive yourself crazy trying to add features.

As usual, this discussion got way off track!  All I want to do is MANUALLY control each of the three lights on each signal.  I have located and purchased 3-position mini-toggle switches that will enable me, or another person, to select which color light on every signal as appropriate.

I need to manufacture my own track schematic on a board and mount these mini-toggles in a centralized location.  The dispatcher, via hand-held walkie-talkie, will be able to verbally convey orders as well as regulate the flow of traffic via Block Signals. 

That's too easy John, we wanted to complicate it a bit.

Yes John:

Why would we want a simple toggle switch. It is much more fun to apply the Rube Goldberg approach...

"Rube Goldberg"?  I think it's slightly higher on the idea chain than that!

sinclair posted:

Yes, Atlas had boards that did like I want, but they are next to impossible to find.  Atlas isn't currently releasing them, but I have heard rumors they are redoing the whole signal system.

I am not surprised, as Terry has discontinued business.  Luckily I was able to secure the last CPLs and some boards at reasonable prices.  Now my layout has signals at the scissor crossover and advance signals that flash yellow as needed (thanks to Bruce Chubbs signal articles that pointed out the advance "error").  Certainly adds some life to an otherwise round and round layout.

John C

Any of the Atlas signals can be controlled with a simple SPDT toggle switch if that is the mode of operation you want. Install the circuit board, connect power 6-22VAC/DC as directed. Plug in signal and it will illuminate with the Green aspect as a default. Place your toggle switch on your control panel run connection wire 3 or 4 conductor type from toggle switch to the circuit board. Connect one wire to the spare "COM" screw terminal and one to the "RIN" terminal (RED)in and the other to the "Yin" screw terminal(YELLOW). Setting the toggle switch in one position will change signal color to Red the other direction will operate the Yellow aspect. If you want to take it a step further you can install the interconnect cables from J1 & J2 on the circuit board it will follow the sequence of setting the trailing signal to Yellow automatically. This is more like a CTC Centralized mode of operation rather than ABS automatic block control. All the Atlas signals and circuit boards are still available from the factory including the "G" , Searchlight, CPL, and Pennsylvania. You can reach me at 908-687-0880 Ext 7142 if you need further information.

Steve H

I am just absolutely flabbergasted! I just had to share this. Today my model railroad train signals arrived. These come in multiple sizes for multiple gauges. These particular ones are for O scale. Each signal has four wires.

The black is the common and the red yellow and green are for each individual light. This light is known as part number JTD433GYR. It may be found on eBay. I was really hesitant to buy the signals figuring they were just cheap garbage.

These two signals sell for $16.99. For that price you get for signals! That is about $4.25 for one train signal less shipping. Unbelievable!

I will be doing a review when I actually get these wired up. Yes, you do have to purchase some kind of an activator or electrical switch to get them to function. I want mine to function only manually. I want to be able to control them myself from one centralized location and act as a dispatcher. I purchased 3 position mini toggle switches to do this. More on this later.

These signals and the mini toggle switch to control each one cost me approximately between 8 and $9. That is one heck of a lot cheaper than anything else out there by a long shot. Now to see how they actually work.

In fact, when I do the review and show how these work I will post a video.

John C, do you get 2 or 4 signal towers for $16.99? The heading reads 2. Are you saying you get 2 sets of 2?

Dave Zucal posted:

John C, do you get 2 or 4 signal towers for $16.99? The heading reads 2. Are you saying you get 2 sets of 2?

I was wondering the same thing myself.

John C. posted:

These two signals sell for $16.99. For that price you get for signals! That is about $4.25 for one train signal less shipping. Unbelievable!

So how many signals do you get for that price?  Four?

Care to share an eBay auction number?

GRJ, search ebay for this number - JTD433GYR

The new WeHonest site has similar signals that really are less than $4, and he has three styles, left, center, and right.  They also have a screw base which makes for easy and secure installation.

  The tumble down, releasing trains on positioning cues, can be done a number of ways, a twist on old anti collision  and stop & go automation wiring, but as a brand it seems a convenient "stackable" automation choice.... if I recall right.

My thought right now is why a board... For mounting? or is not electrical you mean but a panel? 

You need to know the max switch volt/amp/watt rating. Mini's can be very light, especially if it is board mount as sensitive logic use is more common there. I guess it comes down to the number of led controlled by one switch. Led don't draw much alone but it can add up quick.

Dave Zucal posted:

John C, do you get 2 or 4 signal towers for $16.99? The heading reads 2. Are you saying you get 2 sets of 2?

I can't do math Dave. What can I say. I got four of them total for $16.99. Two of them come in one of the plastic boxes. As I made that post yesterday I was distracted by people talking to me. So I confused everybody on multiple sites. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks John C., it may have been a shipping error or could be a description error. I placed an order for some yesterday. I'll let you know what I receive when they arrive. I like the thinner, more scale like, ladder on these more then the ones from wehonest. The cost is a little more but the shipping is free.

Give a look at the new WeHonest direct sale website.  He's got some good looking O-gauge signals at very good prices!  Here's a couple of samples

I have purchased the crossing signals in HO size and they seem perfect for my S gauge layout. You may want to check the size for O, just a suggestion.  I will mention the cross buck is aluminum color rather than white with black lettering but they look decent. These come with a board to make the LEDs light alternately, I tried running both signals off one board but then they flashed to rapidly, using one board per signal they work fine,

Ray

I think that was probably a shipping error as the listing seems clear that you're getting two signals for the $16.99.  Sometimes you just get lucky.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think that was probably a shipping error as the listing seems clear that you're getting two signals for the $16.99.  Sometimes you just get lucky.

Nope, I got two block signals in one package for $16.99. 

I have some WeHonest dwarf signals (from ebay a few years ago). They are nice and were well priced too! Unfortunately, they are still sitting under the layout in a box and not on top of it being used...

I may have to sample some of WeHonest's larger signals and also some of the ones listed here in this post. Price is right to be able to compare a couple of each. You can always find a spot for them somewhere (on top of the layout). 

So whether it's $4 per signal direct from wehonest or even double that on eBay, isn't the elephant in the corner the cost of the electronics to make the 3 LEDs "work"?   There's a camp that wants manual control using 3-position toggles (apparently about $4 for the control) and another camp that wants prototypical signaling with "daisy-chained" block detectors (cost all over the map depending on features). 

But my guess is the biggest camp is what's offered in off-the-shelf 3-aspect heads with timed-yellow-to-green behavior.  In this case the board shown earlier by GRJ seems like a capable no-soldering-required solution but comes in at about $12-$18 per signal head.  In other words several times the cost of the signal head itself! 

Just my opinion but isn't this where the focus should be?!  Has someone shown how to hook up this board for 3-rail using the isolated-rail method?  I see this board takes AC or DC voltage but, again, has someone confirm the "grounding" of the commons works when using Accessory AC from an O-gauge train transformer?  Etc.

I can imagine cobbling together some eBay relay modules and timer modules to perform the timed-yellow-green behavior using an insulated outer rail trigger.  I'm guessing less than $5 per signal head.  Not sure if there's any interest in this or if I'm completely missing the boat on what guys are after. 

Stan, that board can be activated by the included IR sensor pair or a reed switch.  Given the reed switch idea, I would assume it would also work with an insulated rail. 

I agree with your thinking 100%. 

BUT, I'm thinking of all the guys using Arduino controllers that sense block occupancy using insulated rail.  There too you'd think you could "just" hook up the insulated rail trigger to the Arduino input...ground/common being logic 0 and all.  But every Arduino interface I've seen uses an optical isolator or similar to protect the "sensitive" digital electronics from the nastiness of O-gauge track power - TVS suppressors being a case in point.

I'm with you on the protection Stan, if I were doing the project, there's be protection for the input!

Maybe it's time for another "project" PCB for signals that can be assembled cheaply.

Someone say PCB? Ok, now I'm hooked... Actually, I was thinking the same thing while reading these last few posts. Stan got me to thinking about the signal control board, as in the one referenced earlier and in Stan's pictures above. The possibility of something like that sounded interesting as do so many things around here. 

I'll start a new thread.

Here's a new thread on the signal control board, let's all chime in.

The RR Track Signal Control Board Project

Well John C. you lucked out getting 4 for 16. Mine came in and I only received 2.

Dave Zucal posted:

Well John C. you lucked out getting 4 for 16. Mine came in and I only received 2.

I looked on Ebay again and it is VERY CONFUSING as to how many you get.  It states: "TWO PIECES."  I assumed 2 signals.  When mine came I had four signals in two boxes.  Later, someone commnted something similar tou your and I went bad and looked on Ebay.  It is confusing and depending on your interpretation of "TWO PIECES" it could mean either.  I'm glad I got four.  I ve got 16 more to order.  Hopefully, I'll get lucky.

JTD433GYR 2pcs Model Railroad Train Signals 3-Lights Block Signal O Scale 12V

It states "2pcs" 

GUNNERJOHN WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Apparently, I got lucky!  I got 4 total signals.

  The ad may have been edited for clairity after an inventory check.

   Lets just hope some poor packing employee didn't loose a job over an ad or order executives poor wording. Mistakes happen at all levels, but the folks up top seldom pay the same fines in my experiences as it can be easier in multiple ways for the more competitive personality to pass that blame on.