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Bobby Ogage posted:

Trolley cars in Vermont.RRStationStateSt-1923Notice the black bands on the trees. Is that sticky stuff to prevent Gypsy Moth caterpillars from decimating the leaves?

The Burlington RR station postcard is amazing.  Thanks!

Re: the black bands, the height looks about right for gypsy moths.  Wikipedia says they were introduced in Massachusetts in 1868 and spread throughout the Northeast.  Ontario also had them. So, it very well could be.  Those look like hardwood trees, too.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

This post card of Cooper Square in New York City fascinates me. Cooper Square is at the junction of 3rd & 4th Avenues and E6th Street. It is the home of Cooper Union, one of the finest colleges in the USA.

The post card depicts Cooper Union (building with the flag), the 3rd Avenue El and trolley cars on 4th Avenue in 1917. On November 14, 1832 the world’s first streetcar line ran on the Bowery and 4th Avenue, between Prince and 14th Street. Street cars of the Third Avenue Railway ran underneath the El.

Notice the cobble stone roadways. Those stones lead to the installation of iron street car rails in the streets for a smoother ride than the carriages of the day could provide. Horse drawn street cars evolved to electric street cars, and the buried third rail between the tracks supplied safe hi-voltage electricity to run the street cars.

The post card is hand colored, and the color of the street cars may not be authentic.

 

Cooper-Sq-1917

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Great photos of Manhattan street railways, The historical perspective is most interesting as well. I might add that befor electric propulsion, Manhattan cars used a cable system. The cables were located in an underground conduit between the rails with the cabl grips on the cars extending through the opening in the conduit. . When electrification came of age, it was the choice to use the coduit for the trolley wire so to speak and equipping cars with electrical equipment and insulated contact shoes for power pickup. The system was preferred since it eliminated the need for street poles to support trolley wire used elsewhere. It thus became the standard approach in Manhattan. There was little of the conduit design in the outer boroughs , consisting only that which was associated with Manhattan car lines entering Brooklyn ie Manhattan Bridge and Williamsburg Bridge lines. Some Tars crs were equipped with these contact shoes as well as overhead poles . These cars were  on routes that crossed from Manhattan into the Bronx I believe. 

David Johnston posted:
Bobby Ogage posted:

More trolley & interurban cars in California.Thunder Bay kb

I do not recognize any of these as California cars. Maybe somewhere else?

Given the business sign on one of the photos for what looks like McCartney's English china, my guess was Canada.  Wikipedia confirms that Port Arthur and Fort William are in Ontario.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_William,_Ontario

That explains the "baseball this afternoon" sign, too :-).

Go Blue Jays!

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Last edited by TomlinsonRunRR
TomlinsonRunRR posted:

And the double truck P.A.Y.E cars (whatever that stands for) may have been manufactured by the Cincinnati Car Company.  I found a web hit for that type of car being delivered to Georgia in 1922.  Can anyone else elaborate further?

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Pay As You Enter, meaning a one trolley man car where there was no conductor to collect the fare, only the trolley driver who you would have to pay as you boarded.  

Reduced labor cost, but also could a trolley’s progress along its route.

As an aside,  P.A.Y.E. is now commonly used to mean Pay As You Earn, a type of student loan.

Alan

Alan B posted:
TomlinsonRunRR posted:

And the double truck P.A.Y.E cars (whatever that stands for) may have been manufactured by the Cincinnati Car Company.  I found a web hit for that type of car being delivered to Georgia in 1922.  Can anyone else elaborate further?

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Pay As You Enter, meaning a one trolley man car where there was no conductor to collect the fare, only the trolley driver who you would have to pay as you boarded.  

Reduced labor cost, but also could a trolley’s progress along its route.

As an aside,  P.A.Y.E. is now commonly used to mean Pay As You Earn, a type of student loan.

Alan

Ah, thank-you for the explanation(s) of P.A.Y.E, Alan.  Given that meaning, scratch my musing about the Cincinnati Car Company.  I wouldn't imagine they had a monopoly on the manufacture of that type of car.

Thanks for the info.

TRRR 

TomlinsonRunRR posted:
Bobby Ogage posted:

Trolley cars in Vermont.RRStationStateSt-1923Notice the black bands on the trees. Is that sticky stuff to prevent Gypsy Moth caterpillars from decimating the leaves?

The Burlington RR station postcard is amazing.  Thanks!

Re: the black bands, the height looks about right for gypsy moths.  Wikipedia says they were introduced in Massachusetts in 1868 and spread throughout the Northeast.  Ontario also had them. So, it very well could be.  Those look like hardwood trees, too.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

I agree.  The black bands were meant to fight Gypsy moth infestation.  We had them here about forty years ago.  They're gone, but now we have Stink Bugs, Lantern Flies and who knows what else may be coming down the pike ?

Bobby Ogage posted:

More trolley cars in Pennsylvania

FirstElectricTrolleyCarGirard_Callowhill_6_smHarrisburg, paKlapperthalMtNeversink-1913land_j

Second photo seems to be PTC ( Philadelphia Transportation Company ) shop.

Last photo looks like, is Penn's landing along the Delaware River.  I think Buckingham Trolley Association operated there for a short time.  

Where were the other two photos taken ?

Hi Bobby

 The Brooklyn City railroad was the original horsecar line which began operations in 1854. There were several other companies that came to be within the next decade. There were Horse car lines , a couple of cable car routes and finally electrification about 1895. 

The BRT or Brooklyn Rapid Transit Corporation was formed around the turn of the century to consolidate transit in Brooklyn and Queens and Nassau under one corporate entity. There were but a few that did not become part of BRT  most notable of which was the Manhattan Bridge  3 cent line running between Flatbush and Fulton st to Manhattan and canal street via the Manhattan Bridge. 

The BRT had over its history a number of Labor Union diputes and strikes. During the 1919 strike, the well known Malbone street accident occurred which forced the company in receivership.

In 1923, the company was reorganized into the BMT or Brooklyn  Manhattan Transit . It took over all of the BRT subway and elevated rail lines as well as the BRT trolley and bus lines that existed at the time . The Brooklyn and Queens Transit was organized as a separate company in 1929 and the BMT placed the operation of the Brooklyn and Queens Transit streetcar and bus routes at that time under B&QT Operation. 

In June 1940, New York city organized the Board of Transport which acquired the assets and operations of the IRT and the BMT including the B&QT A process of unification began at that time. The City replaced the Board of Transport with the Transit Authority in 1953 and the first true unified line took place 1n 1954 with the BMT Culver line in Brooklyn on McDonald avenue, being re routed into the IND;s 6th avenue line at Church ave. All but three trolley lines in Brooklyn were gone by then , these last three closing by October 1956.

So to answer your question , All of the companies you noted were part of one company and the same company that oprated the streetcar lines in Brooklyn. From the Horse car of the Brooklyn City Railroad to the PCC car shown in the Transit Authority colors represents a span of 100 years of Streetcar lines in Brooklyn. A great post Bobby. 

Thanks for the Oregon photos. I found them very interesting.  I was particularly interested in the photo of Portland Traction 4004.  PT 4001 is at the Western Railway Museum.  See photo below.  It was formerly Indiana Railroad 202. Another of these cars, 4003 I think, is at IRM.  Indiana Railroad bought 6 of these cars and two still exist. 

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Being a Long Islander, trolley lines that operated on Long Island are my favorites, especially these:

New York & North Shore Railway;

NY&NST 10 Stephenson

New York & Long Island Traction Company;NY&LIT Car 9 194kb

Huntington Railroad;

Huntington RR No 28

Manhattan & Queens Traction Company;

July 20th, 1937 image was taken on Queens Boulevard between Union Turnpike and Van Wyck Boulevard in Kew Gardens while passing Maple Grove Cemetery - Copy

New York & Queens County;

College Point Ferry Terminal at the end of 14th Avenue 3

Brooklyn & Queens Transit;

B&QT Peter Witt 8361 in St. George 334KB

Northport Traction Company

0243

My favorite street car / trolley car historian is Vincent Seyfried who was my high school English teacher.

Lets see your favorite traction lines.

 

 

 

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Post cards of trolley and interurban cars are great sources of traction history. This post card is fascinating. Look at the 3 interurban cars. There must have been a wye track arrangement at Evans City Junction.

Evans City Jct, Harmony Line, Pa

Evans City Junction was likely an important place circa 1910 judging by the photographic attention given to it by the media.

1910 Evans City Jct xkb

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harmony_routemap

 

 

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Yesterday there was a little switching at the Western Railway Museum to get ready for a special event.  I happened to be there and took a couple of pictures. 

This is San Diego LRV 1017

D080A1A9-FAB6-44CA-9DD1-B442B757AA9E
This is Key System bridge unit 187.  It operated over the San Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge from 1939 to 1958.  Removal of the tracks from the bridge in 1958 resulted in the California Toll Bridge Authority having to fund the BART Transbay Tube 10 years later.  As I recall it cost about $150,000,000.
E1B8C097-BB12-4911-AD26-7854BF22CC5E
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entral California Traction Company box motor #7.  It worked from Stockton to Sacramento CA until 1947 drawing power from a 1200 VDC third rail.  The body was built by J G Brill for the Washington, Baltimore, and Annapolis, where it ran as their #1.  The electrical and mechanical equipment came from a previous WB and A  #1, which burned c1929.  I believe the car was paid for with an insurance settlement.   Behind 7 is Salt Lake and Utah interurban observation 751.  This is a control trailer.

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The following two photos are the control equipment in the very small cab of Key Unit 187.  I should have lifted the camera just a little and then the automatic speed control indicator would have been visible.  The name plate just above the brake valve handle stop is on the bottom of the indicator light box.  There were 4 speed indicators, 11, 17, 25, and 35 mph.   As the cars speed approached the indicated speed a bell would start to ring slowly with the ringing speed picking up as the speed got closer to the indicated speed.  If the indicated speed was exceeded a buzzer would sound giving the motorman a few seconds to acknowledge the buzzer and make a brake application.  When I was younger I rode over the Bridge many times on these units.  A good motorman would keep the bell ringing the entire trip over the bridge.

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The switching at the Western Railway Museum a couple weeks ago was to get Napa Valley 63 out of the back of Carhouse 3.   One of the Museum’s members wanted to take a ride on this car.  He has been involved with it most of his life. This may be his last ride on the car. Napa Valley 63’s steel body was built by St Louis Car Company in 1932 after a carhouse fire destroyed several of this company’s cars. It was paid for with an insurance settlement.  Electrical and mechanical equipment was salvaged from a burned car.  It only ran 4 years before Napa Valley gave up passenger service. Napa Valley continued limited operation to deliver US Mail and switch Mare Island Navy yard. 63 was kept until after the war helping preforming these duties. It was then stripped of its electrical equipment and used as a coach by a lumber company. 

The Museum acquired the car in 1985. There has been a lot of work done to the car since to make it serviceable, but electrical equipment has not been reinstalled yet. For this special trip it was towed by Sacramento Northern 1005. This car was heavily rebuilt in 2000 at the Museum after it was nearly destroyed in a railroad switching accident in 1960.   Following pictures were taken on a test trip on Wednesday.  The Special run was today. 

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Last edited by David Johnston

I've always said if I could go back in time and spend a day with one person it would be my paternal grandfather who died in 1952, 8 years before I was born. He was said to be surly and ill tempered and had a penchant for dangerous vocations but I figure he would have softened up some for his grandson ;-)   Among other things he served in WWI in both the Calvary and as a pilot in the US Army Air Corps. In the 1930's he was a motorcycle cop in Newark, NJ during a time when they were killed or injured with some regularity. He was assigned to provide escort for a dignitary aboard the Hindenburg and was at Lakehurst when it crashed and burned. He built his retirement cottage on Barnegat Bay at the Jersey Shore by himself from the ground up and spent his final years deep sea fishing in the Atlantic. The stories he could tell must have been endless.


Another job he had, which I only just discovered, was as a street car operator or conductor or something related. My sister recently found this photo in a box of my late father's possessions.

IMG_2928
That's my grandfather on the left resting his foot on the head of a co-worker. I can only assume this was before his career on the police force and he looks fairly young so I'd say just after the war in the mid to late 20's. I'm guessing the photo was taken in Newark where he lived.
I'm hoping one of of the experts on board here can identify the type of trolley and possibly add some information.
Thanks in advance.

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Last edited by G-Man24

G-Man:  Probably one of these, or something similar:

https://www.njerhs.org/publications

Looks like a single-end version, as the doors at photo right have been converted to walls and there's no trolley pole over their heads.

Mitch

Interesting I didn't even notice the lack of overhead power or mast. So were these conversion cars being fitted with some type of combustion engine ?

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