'Rare' or highly desirable today?

these may be more from the "rare and NOT in demand" category...

for over three years i looked for a hockey card that had a book value of 25 cents.

more relevant here and something i don't really understand... i am surprised when i see a ca.1985 Williams Challenger... the first tinplate articulated locomotive in regular production by a company that pretty much led the way in the emerging "3-rail scale"... sell for only a few $100...

perhaps it's either too early, or just me that considers this locomotive a landmark piece.

overlandflyer posted:

more relevant here and something i don't really understand... i am surprised when i see a ca.1985 Williams Challenger... the first tinplate articulated locomotive in regular production by a company that pretty much led the way in the emerging "3-rail scale"... sell for only a few $100...

perhaps it's either too early, or just me that considers this locomotive a landmark piece.

It's because many folks nowadays are more interested in the latest command, smoke and sound features rather than a conventional locomotive by itself.

Rusty

Certain Gilbert S Gauge items.

Rusty Traque posted:

overlandflyer posted:

more relevant here and something i don't really understand... i am surprised when i see a ca.1985 Williams Challenger... the first tinplate articulated locomotive in regular production by a company that pretty much led the way in the emerging "3-rail scale"... sell for only a few $100...

perhaps it's either too early, or just me that considers this locomotive a landmark piece.

It's because many folks nowadays are more interested in the latest command, smoke and sound features rather than a conventional locomotive by itself.

Rusty

you're probably right and that was the basis of my "too early" comment.  i'm sure in the 30's and 40's nobody wanted that junk from the 20's anymore ...

What seems to be in demand right now is I see a lot of people looking for the MTH Coors Light bullet train tail car.

NYC superliner set 4 pack 2 pack and station sound car.Have them but rarely seen at shows and crazy prices on bay.

I guess the K-Line Santa Fe 'Transition' cars would come to mind here as well...

dk122trains posted:

NYC superliner set 4 pack 2 pack and station sound car.Have them but rarely seen at shows and crazy prices on bay.

 

A beautiful set!  I wonder if the influence on the rarity was the scale crowd?

There were certainly enough people here decrying it as outlandish when it was offered, since NYC didn't survive long enough for either the cars or the SD80 that was made for them to have ever existed IRL.

Maybe there are just more people in the hobby now who appreciate this for what it is (causing the surge in pricing/demand when they are offered for sale).  A really nice train in a popular road name from the past.

-Dave

Dave45681: It's sad to say it, but those "Superliner" cars would have only existed on the NYC until they came to their first tunnel on the mainline......

There are very few rare items in the modern era. Just because somebody asks a high price for a item does not mean I would ever pay it. 

There are also just too many trains on the secondary market to overpay for anything. 

Dave

Chuck Sartor posted:

What seems to be in demand right now is I see a lot of people looking for the MTH Coors Light bullet train tail car.

I see them for $200 asking price but at the same time I picked one up NIB on ebay for $75.00.  To some people your dream acquisition is just their item to get rid of.

overlandflyer posted:

these may be more from the "rare and NOT in demand" category...

for over three years i looked for a hockey card that had a book value of 25 cents.

more relevant here and something i don't really understand... i am surprised when i see a ca.1985 Williams Challenger... the first tinplate articulated locomotive in regular production by a company that pretty much led the way in the emerging "3-rail scale"... sell for only a few $100...

perhaps it's either too early, or just me that considers this locomotive a landmark piece.

While I agree that it is a good engine and I proudly display one, there were brass big boys produced for the two rail market years before this one.  I would put the MTH Challenger as the top three rail locomotive to own because it changed the direction of the entire industry. 

The  Clinchfield Challenger was my first MTH purchase and over a period of 2 years I finally got 30 mixed brand CC&O Hoppers. I spent a lot of time in and around Clinchfield territory interviewing old timers for Mark Hipp (Mike's brother in law) to determine the paint color of the lettering. A large majority of retirees at Erwin Yard and local Cafes plus one rail artist all said "white". It was road numbered as one of the "Wartime Challengers" that Clinchfield bought from the government and ferried from Utah and redrafted and singlestacked them for eastern coal.

Anything from Kline or Weaver.

Some of the higher priced K-line passenger cars are the bi-level Santa Fe cars.....along with the transition car that goes with that set.  The recent prices on Ebay have been eye opening....

Like Alan, I have been watching the prices recently on the K-Line Superliner Santa Fe Set. Stupid prices are the norm.

I thought by now one of the manufacturers would have seen the  opportunity for SuperLiners in a variety of road names. The Atlas Santa Fe F Units and recent Power offerings by Lionel & MTH would look great pulling these high level cars.

It may take awhile - but I'm waiting for something new instead of paying $200 each for 15 year old cars.

Paul

I think the modern stuff will quickly decrease in price as the number of capable/interested buyers quickly decrease.  Some York's lately you see stacks of the rare limited edition MPC sets for a fraction of past prices.

Price dont matter if you like it, buy it and enjoy it.  Time is short

Here is a very bad video (cause I took it!) of a train of Santa Fe Hi-levels.  This was taken a couple of days ago as the sun began to shine through the east windows.  Makes the finish on those cars look fantastic....!

Hard to find items in my field are:

Ferdinand Magellan 3 rail pax car in all three schemes

Many Sunset Models PRR Brass locomotives

Sunset Models 3 rail PRR BRASS pax cars

Golden Gate Depot Amtrak passenger sets and cars

Atlas O Conrail- MP15 & U23b

K-Line PRR Scale diesels.

K-Line PRR 21"  passenger sets

A lot of engines that were $1,000 when new 10 years ago, now go for a few hundred on eBay.

The K-Line ILLINOIS CENTRAL GULF covered steel coil car must be rare because it sold out and has never been on sale again, even second hand.

Andrew

The Lionel GEVO

Dewey, Great story!

I think the Weaver brass cabooses are desirable.

The ATLAS O ILLINOIS TERMINAL Pullman-Standard 4750 3-bay covered hoppers were built to order and are impossible to find for sale with 3-rail trucks.

Andrew

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Hard to find items in my field are:

Ferdinand Magellan 3 rail pax car in all three schemes

Many Sunset Models PRR Brass locomotives

Sunset Models 3 rail PRR BRASS pax cars

Golden Gate Depot Amtrak passenger sets and cars

Atlas O Conrail- MP15 & U23b

K-Line PRR Scale diesels.

K-Line PRR 21"  passenger sets

 

GGD Amtrak cars are sought after!  I obsorb whatever of these I find!!!

dk122trains posted:

NYC superliner set 4 pack 2 pack and station sound car.Have them but rarely seen at shows and crazy prices on bay.

Don

Would love to see those run some day!

Peter

The scale length K Line cars are a given, but I think the 60 footers with full interiors are desirable too.

These still look good behind scale locos being scale width and height , and look much better on average O scale curves.

In either case K Line nailed the close coupling of passenger cars 2 decades ago. It seems the "big two" still struggle with this.

Its amazing how K Line left such a lasting impression the hobby , having been around for such a brief period.

I wonder what we'd have from them if they were still around.

I've been watching the market trends with the Lionel ES44ACs. Some of the heritage units are already getting up there in price, depending on the road name. I saw a non-powered unit recently priced at the same value the powered one was worth when it was released! I'll be curious what factor the "BTO" trend will have down the road.......

Rob

Brass traction flat cars with containers and  K-Line Foreman's Car road number 195369.  John in Lansing, ILL

Bill DeBrooke posted:

Chuck Sartor posted:

What seems to be in demand right now is I see a lot of people looking for the MTH Coors Light bullet train tail car.

I see them for $200 asking price but at the same time I picked one up NIB on ebay for $75.00.  To some people your dream acquisition is just their item to get rid of.

A tail car? I've seen the regular operating door reefers go for around $75, but the tail car goes much higher. I saw one go for $350 a couple years back.

While desirable may be pushing it (since it probably ticked off more people than it pleased) the Lionel "York" boxcar from a couple years ago has to be on the list in terms of rare.  50 pieces is pretty low for anything.

-Dave

Here is another 3rd rail chlorine tank cars in brass from years ago.Rarely see them.

Any of the Lionel die cast ES44ACs, especially thr Boy Scout one.  Lionel scale GGI,in Penn Central, only 90 were made.

Bill DeBrooke posted:

overlandflyer posted:

...1985 Williams Challenger...the first tinplate articulated locomotive in regular production ...

..., there were brass big boys produced for the two rail market years before this one.  ...

up until this model, you could not touch an O scale brass import (limited runs, not in general production) for less than a few grand, no less an articulated engine.  i remember this sold for $999.  again, a landmark model for the 3-rail industry.  i would rate the significance of this piece alongside the 1937 Lionel Hudson.  of course in 1970 (same 33 years after its introduction) i'm sure you could pick up a '37 Hudson for a song, too.

[ed: math... ]

I seem to remember a long time ago there was a TM video with that Challenger running on someones layout, and when it ran over what appeared to be a scratch built trestle, the trestle collapsed from the weight and the engine landed on it's side, the trestle a bunch of snapped wood!  It could have been staged, but somehow I don't think so. Does anyone else remember what I am talking about?

overlandflyer posted:

Bill DeBrooke posted:

overlandflyer posted:

...1985 Williams Challenger...the first tinplate articulated locomotive in regular production ...

..., there were brass big boys produced for the two rail market years before this one.  ...

up until this model, you could not touch an O scale brass import (limited runs, not in general production) for less than a few grand, no less an articulated engine.  i remember this sold for $999.  again, a landmark model for the 3-rail industry.  i would rate the significance of this piece alongside the 1937 Lionel Hudson.  of course in 1970 (same 33 years after its introduction) i'm sure you could pick up a '37 Hudson for a song, too.

[ed: math... ]

I in no way was intending to diminish the importance of this piece.  I agree with you completely.

overlandflyer posted:

Bill DeBrooke posted:

overlandflyer posted:

...1985 Williams Challenger...the first tinplate articulated locomotive in regular production ...

..., there were brass big boys produced for the two rail market years before this one.  ...

up until this model, you could not touch an O scale brass import (limited runs, not in general production) for less than a few grand, no less an articulated engine.  i remember this sold for $999.  again, a landmark model for the 3-rail industry.  i would rate the significance of this piece alongside the 1937 Lionel Hudson.  of course in 1970 (same 33 years after its introduction) i'm sure you could pick up a '37 Hudson for a song, too.

[ed: math... ]

Back then when the Wm Challenger came out, if you didn't pre-order one, with in a month or two they were selling for $1800. - $2000. Yep, since then resale value of these engines have been on a downward spiral.  Back in August 2018 I purchased a LN (shelf queen)  Wm Challenger for approx. $440. shipped. I also purchased a few more Wm brass large steam engines.

April 2017, NOS Wm SP Cab Forward approx. $430. shipped.

Nov 2018, LN Wm NYC class A, approx. $525. shipped.  

The Williams Challenger purported to be a scale model.  I believe it was undersize.  It is certainly not a desirable model for 2-railers.  Check out the Sunset, USH, or even Lobaugh for a far more faithful model.  Opinion.

My surprise is seeing the sag in the price of the Lionel B6 - that one deserves better.

Fortunately, if you have the money to spend, you can spend your money on anything you want and what YOU want is desirable to YOU. And if someone else wants it too and he can't have it  we then call it rare!

However, neither is truly desirable or rare.