Removing/ replacing Trucks

I have done this a few times.  I strongly suggest using strong needle nose pliers to remove the rivet holding the plastic trucks to the car.  If you drill the rivet and get it too hot you risk damaging the car. DAMHIKT.

I fail to see the point of installing sprung die diecast metal trucks on 0-27 rolling stock.Nick

It puts a little more weight on them and they track better.....

Main advantage of modern trucks is reduced rolling resistence. The same engine will pull twice as many cars with modern trucks vs post war bar end or staple end trucks.

 

Pete

Thanks all for the comments.

Another question or 2. there some 10-11 inch +/- cars that the couplers will not hold and the cars are tied together, don't know if new trucks will help but hope so, also there are a few (old) 027 cars with the trucks broken, wheels off, due to the bad judgment of running the cars to fast and them hitting the floor. 

 

Any advice on the brand of couplers to use? I have a couple of  Lionel's on hand but will probably need a few more.

 

Brent

I've been drilling out my trucks for decades. But what GregM said has truth to it. I use a fresh drill bit made for metal over a piece of homosote to help absorb the heat. You want the drill bit to immediately shred the top over hang of the rivet... you should see metal shavings immediately. If not, you risk the scenario Greg mentioned.

 

I don't replace trucks though, save for an illuminated car where the heavier trucks help reduce flicker. I instead remount the trucks using a truss screw and a stop or lock nut.

 

This is to get rid of the inherit truck wobble, which is the real cause of most derailments. I tighten the locknut until there is no swing in the truck, then loosen it just enough to get the truck to freely move left and right. This really eliminates derailments, even with lighter cars pushing heavier cars backward through tight 027 curves. This has become standard procedure for me, save for cars that come with die cast trucks or Lionel cars that are gear operated, like the aquarium car.

 

For the coupler problem, remove the coupler armature and heat it up gently. I've gotten real good at this and I can use a cigarette lighter to do the job. You heat the armature and then using pliers give it a bend upward and blow on it to cool it, and keep the armature in the new position. 99 percent of the time, I've found this eliminates the "opening coupler" problem.

 

Another note since I use plastic trucks a great deal. For some cars that I wish more weight on, you can either add self-adhesive weights OR look for wheel sets that have solid wheels instead of the inside hollowed out wheel. MTH and Atlas Industrial Rail make these totally solid wheel sets. I bought lots of them when they were readily available... I don't know about now. But the solid wheels add more weight to the car.

The plastic trucks likely have the lower rolling resistance.  The diecast trucks will be heavier and track better.

 

This seems a little like trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, that's a lot of money to sink into an inexpensive car with plastic trucks.

 

As far as couplers, you can replace the knuckles & springs on plastic or diecast trucks, the parts are readily available.  Most of those cars have the couplers as part of the truck, so you won't be picking brands of couplers as a rule.

 

 

I would just add some stick on tire weights to the inside of the car. A lot cheaper than metal trucks and wheels for 027 cars.

Ooops, missed the part about plastic trucks. I have avoided most everything made after 1955 in my Post War collection for that reason.

 

Pete

Using the BR-S Truck Rivet backing tool with the BR-BP Base Plate, both available from http://www.rivetin.com/ eliminates most rivet spin when drilling them out.

I have those, and I've drilled a bunch of them out, never lost a truck.  OTOH, I don't know that I'd replace the trucks if they're not broken...

 

First, maybe he just wants the die-cast trucks; generally, in Lionel-brand-world, they look much better. This hobby is just appearances, anyway. 

 

When removing a truck rivet, I generally use a Moto-Tool and cut-off wheel. Heat issues

can still exist, but carefully slicing the rivet head works for me.

 

Drilling the bottom of the rivet is still the cleanest method, though.

 

One more thing: I hate truck rivets. Fortunately, most of my stuff is not "Traditional",

but, as luck would have it, I'm currently swapping trucks on a PW-style/MPC/LTI tender.

Metal frame, though. That helps. 

I don't put rivets back, I hate them as well.

 

Timely topic.  I recently bought a Lionel ExpressTrak box car, which is too light. Weighting the car didn't help because the trucks were too light and rather sloppy. So, I just bought better trucks at Charles Ro. I tried drilling the rivet out with an Irwin 9/64" drill bit that is designed for "hardened steel". (I've had no success with this drill bit even for aluminum window sills!). It barely created some shavings on the rivet, and as others noted the rivet started to get hot and affect the plastic. Fortunately, I caught it in time When I burnt myself .

 

Brianel027, what size bit did you use and where exactly did you place the homosote? (It sounds familiar but what is it exactly?). My drill is an old Black and Decker my step father gave me; can it be under powered for the task?

 

After the drill bit failure, I dug out my jewelry coping saw and tried sawing the rivet off in between the truck and plastic body.  Hard to tell because the space was so tight, but I think that was working and it didn't generate much heat.  But the incredibly tiny toothed super thin saw blade dates from the 70s and didn't last long. Drlling seems like it should "just work" but maybe I'm better off trying to find a new jeweler's saw blade?

 

Anyone have any ideas? This seems like it should be a no-brainer but ...

 

Thanks,

 

Tomlinson Run Railroad

TRRR,

   This is the technique I use for installing new/different trucks on my RR Cars, and it all depends on how big the Rivet is that holds the trucks on which ever manufacturers rolling stock you happen to be working on, as to Bit size.  Disassemble the upper part of the car from its chassis, I put the entire RR Car Chassis right side up in my drill press vise, use some rubber padding so the car is not damaged, as the vice holds it.  Pick a drill bit that is just slightly bigger than the Rivet head.  Use the drill press/drill to just barely remove the head of the rivet, the drill press with its 90% vice will perfectly remove the head of the rivet, as you drill.  Remove the rivet stem & old trucks from from the undercarriage of the RR Car and replace the old trucks with new Premium MTH trucks, which come with the correct size screws for attachment to the chassis.  As you install the new MTH Premium Trucks you might need a small flat washer depending on the size of the hole originally engineered on your rolling stock, it differs from company to company.  If you happen to have some older Lionel good metal trucks around, they work well also.  Reassemble the RR car and test her on the tracks.  I have done this with many RR Cars, especially the Menard's early Flat Bed Tank Cars, which came with junk trucks.

Have fun replacing the trucks on what ever rolling stock you choose.

PCRR/Dave

 

On the stubborn rivets, I just take a Dremel Cutoff Wheel and grind the top of the rivet off.  I keep a water bottle handy to cool it after a bit of grinding to avoid any melting risk.  I can assure you that the cutoff wheel will not have a problem with any rivet.  FWIW, I exclusively use the fiber cutoff wheels.

Interesting technique, PCRR/Dave.  Thanks. I had disassembled the car but approached the drilling from the underside of the truck because the rivet divet gave the drill bit "purchase". Given the failure of that guided method, I can't imagine drilling down from the top through the rounded rivet end. But then I don't have a drill press, much as I'd love one someday.

 

Too bad the top of the rivet is countersunk into the plastic chassis, otherwise I could carefully (and tediously) file the top off. Your post got me wondering if there's a Dremel tool tip that might work In place of the drill press.  But given how my hardened steel drill bit failed, I dunno. Someone mentioned needle nose pliers, which won't work for the small space and my lousy grip, but perhaps I can work to lift up the slight flange on the rivet bottom with something sharp and pointed like an awl?  If not, I may end up ordering some new saw blades and practice patience.

 

Thanks,

 

Tomlinson Run RR

Gunrunnerjohn, our posts crossed in the mail.  That's the sort of thing I had in mind and was thinking of positioning the rivet over a damp rag to cool it. Thanks for the specific details on the cutoff wheel. A trip to the hardware store is in my future for sure.

 

Tomlinson Run Railroad

The Dremel cutoff wheel should reach almost any rivet top and solve this problem.  It's my "go to" method for truck rivets.

 

TRR,

   The Dremel cut off wheel gets the job done, however be careful of over heating your

Chassis, if the rivets are AL, which many are today, you can also use a pair of Dykes to snip the rivet head.

To me both these techniques are a little crude and can damage the rolling stock, however done with care, they do work.

IMO a man should invest in the proper tools, and do the job correctly, I do understand good tools are expensive today.

PCRR/Dave 

Well gentlemen, I broke down after forty years and bought a Dremel tool.  The stores I went to didn't have a cutoff wheel -- fiber or otherwise, but the hardware store guy thought I would have success with a grinding wheel he picked out with a rounded bottom. The recessed plastic well that the rivet top sits in required that innovation.  However, I must now do some serious school work to make up for the shopping trips, so stayed tuned. Hopefully, I can try out my new toys tomorrow and hopefully report back with success.

 

Tomlinson Run RR

 

Edit: I take it back. The hardware store did have cutoff wheels but because of the funny recessed plastic on the chassis, they wouldn't have worked.  I can post photos later for future use.

Here's the (unbelievable) update. The Dremel tool grinding stone 911 worked better than the pretty useless drill bit but kept slipping and took off some plastic because it was a bit too large. A narrower grinding tip didn't work when tried from the underside of the rivet.  It was easy keeping the rivet cool by just pouring water over it, while working at the kitchen counter, but it was pretty obvious that this method would take the remainder of my adult life to remove.  After consulting with Nick the manager at my local Aubuchon Hardware store, he offered to help.  Nick theorized that the rivet kept turning and that maybe holding the Dremel tool sideways would help prevent the spin, but it still would have taken off some plastic on the chassis. By contrast, when I used the jeweler's saw, I was able to hold the rivet firmly in place while sawing. Unfortunately, they didn't have the tiny saw blades.

 

So, Nick sank a drill bit into a piece of wood after taping it in the underside of the rivet. He then placed the bottom of the rivet over the drill bit. This served to anchor the rivet by creating a counter direction to the drill's spin direction.   (He previously tried setting the rivet on top of a file to anchor it, but that pesky counter sunk plastic made that solution useless.) Then, using a surprisingly thin metal drill bit like my jewelry bits, and a slow setting, he created starter holes in the tops of the rivets.  This took considerable time.  Then he moved on to a very large wood drill because that's all he had. It was amazing how it really tore through the metal whereas my "Cobalt" works-on-any metal drill bit did absolutely nothing. It still took a very long time. Nick is a patient man. To deal with the friction and heat problem - there was no water in the back room - he just switched to the other truck when the one he was working on got hot.  After another very considerable length of time, he had both trucks off.  What a guy! This store manager went above and beyond the call in my book.

 

I went home and used my new Dremel tool to clean up the holes for the screws and put the new Lionel 6-14078 trucks on, and they are everything I'd hoped they'd be. The box car now tracks beautifully and the doors stay shut because the ride is so steady now.

 

If I ever do this again, I'm going to go back to the jeweler's saw approach. I'm having PC problems, otherwise I'd post a pic of the counter sunk plastic that added a level of complexity in removing rivets for the original trucks.

 

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Oh yeah, a train project book I just purchased showed the author using strategically positioned dampened cotton balls to cool down plastic parts when drilling.  For what it's worth ...

 

TRRR

I've drilled a number of rivets out using the Brakeman's Riveter kit, I have the anvil that keeps the rivet from spinning.  However, I haven't encountered any lately that I couldn't use a Dremel cutting wheel to remove.  I'm curious how that could be that deeply recessed, do you have a picture of what you have?

Gunrunnerjohn, I did take pictures but a software update yesterday to my supposedly unsupported XP freezes my computer when I insert a camera memory card. When I find my cable I'll upload it for the curious. The cutting wheel did actually start to remove the rivet top but in my inexperienced hands it took off plastic, too.  I removed the chassis on another cheap Lionel boxcar and it had the same recessed well holding the rivet. You are right, it's really not that deep. So the right tool is only as good as the skill of the hands that hold it :-).

 

Tomlinson Run RR

There are lots of older Lionel rolling stock with counter sunk rivets.  Especially gondolas.  G

quote:

There are lots of older Lionel rolling stock with counter sunk rivets.  Especially gondolas.

 

Add flatcars and hoppers.
I have a pair of end nippers that are ground down to fit inside the bolster of postwar Lionel plastic trucks. The difficulty are the rivets. Postwar rivets appear to be steel. Whatever they are, they are extremely hard.

If I want to save both the car and the truck, I use a drill, and one of the Brakeman's Riveter anti-spin anvils (they come in two sizes).

If I only want one piece, I destroy the piece I don't care about. Then it's easy to cut the rivet body with the tool of your choice. For me, it's usually a razor saw.

I took the trucks off a gondola a couple weeks ago with the Dremel cutoff wheel.  You do have to brace it so you don't cut stuff you don't want to cut, but it's possible.  I'm sure there must be some cars that would be a problem, but most it should be possible.

 

I have the Brakeman's Rivet kit, and I have used that to drill out rivets.  I just find the Dremel quicker and easier to remove them.  With either method, you do have to be aware of heat buildup to avoid damage to the plastic body.

 

The PW rivets are some tough stuff, sometimes they take some work.  I do have some small 3/4" diameter cutoff wheels for tight spaces.

Ladies & Gents,

   The investment into a small drill press, and  it's vice at Harbor Freight for $80.00 in our hobby opens a lot of doors for repair & replacement work, on all kinds of rolling stock trucks and engines.  IMO it's a very very good investment.  You can wait till the drill press goes on sale and use a 20% off coupon in the NRA magazine to drop the cost way down to about $54.00.  

PCRR/Dave

I have a drill press, however it's much easier to take them off with the Dremel.

Its very rare that I use my tabletop drill press.