I don't have the Turbo Train, so I'm not worried. 
So far I haven't seen any issues with the speed that the DZ-2500 activates the non-derailing feature. Obviously, the switch isn't instant with the tiny motor, so I see that as a lot more of a risk than the couple of milliseconds the relay takes to do the actual switching of the fixed rails.
Yeah, my speed of the train is pretty extreme to get a short. Grandchild found this one. 😁
Good thing I sent the boards for a prototype run to OSHPark, I had the wrong footprint for the relay! OOPS! I also noticed a couple of spacing issues, but a kludged one together and it works, so I just need to correct the mechanical issues and I'll get a bunch of PCB's.
@CAPPilot posted:I would commit to a bunch of them.
If these are a complete item, I'll buy 10 minimum.
Well, they will be complete when I get the new boards. I went for another spin of three to make sure everything lines up before I order a big batch.
I'm late to the thread here, but it looks like you have another neat device here that might fill a need for many! Looks good!
I need a stiff Bourbon. I completed wiring up a Ross #6 crossover and two Ross #8 curved turnouts last weekend, with the DZ-1008, and screwed the track down. Ordered 4 more DZ-1008s to cover additional turnouts not considered in the earlier order, a week ago. Obviously, this is a vastly superior solution, not only because of the common rail selection but also because it eliminates the dependency on the grossly undersized DZ-1008 relay contact wires (what's the point of a 10A relay with #24 wires connected to it, despite their short length?). At this point, I'll have to try out my inventory of rolling stock to see if I'll have any problems, before I pull things up and rewire (or add ugly visible wires soldered to outside of rails).
@KarlDL posted:...grossly undersized DZ-1008 relay contact wires (what's the point of a 10A relay with #24 wires connected to it, despite their short length?).
John,
I went through the topic and did not see the amps yours will handle.
The relay I have is a 5A relay. I can't imagine one engine drawing power needing 5 amps, and the 10A relay would have been much larger for a DPDT relay.
Mr New here. I could use a little help on explaining some of the abbreviations. Thanks. To GRJ for all the sharing of info
Which abbreviations are you confused about?
Ms.MSS in the board and relay discussion
I have no idea what Ms.MSS means.
OK, what I think is my "final" PCB version samples came back and I built a couple of them. This is an all thru-hole design to make it easier for folks to assemble. I can't imagine enough volume to do an assembled production run of these, so I'll be ordering a batch of blank boards and supplying a kit of parts for folks that want some of these.
This final layout reduced the size of the board to 1.05" x 1.05", the two jumpers to minimize the external wiring were moved to the edge of the board and the footprint was made compatible with standard .1" jumper blocks.
Given the design of the board and the opto-isolation of the trigger, this board can actually be used for a number of applications, but my goal in designing it was to enhance the operation of my Ross switches by switching both the hot and neutral rails to better maintain continuity through the longer switches and the double-slip switches.
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John, this "final" incarnation looks great! Might you consider making the gerbers available on the forum for those of us who may want to roll our own? I would cheerfully buy a few kits from you but the truth is I already have all components in my parts boxes, including these exact relays, so it might not make much sense?
Thanks either way,
Rod
Sure Rod, here they are. I am buying a bunch of parts, but there's room for you to roll your own. 
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Thanks for this John. I'll get a few boards on order. I assume the big relay traces are sized for 2 oz copper, right?
Rod
Yep, I went with 2oz copper to make sure I had the current carrying capacity for the 5A relays.
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Great John thanks. Forgot to ask earlier; is that VO1 opto the venerable LTV-8141? It looks like it may be but I can't quite make out the markings in the board layout photo.
Thanks, Rod
Yep, that it is. It works well for this application, I don't need blinding speed and the high gain of the Darlington transistors give me good sensitivity on the trigger input. Maybe the BOM will help.
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Great John, thanks again. We have an RCS 175M double xover on our train show layout modules that will benefit from one of these. Shorter engines were sometimes left high and dry if passing across this guy too slowly. This relay board should help. If things ever open up and we can do train shows again that is!
Not just sure what I will do with the other 8 boards yet...........? 
Rod
This work well on long switches, most of the curved switches as well as #6 or larger switches.
Got a few of 1008's on a club layout that are junk. Would love to replace them with this. How would this get wired up in line with the DZ-1002 and DZ-1000?
@christhetrainguy09 posted:Got a few of 1008's on a club layout that are junk. Would love to replace them with this. How would this get wired up in line with the DZ-1002 and DZ-1000?
They're actually wired like a DZ-1008 except you have the extra connection to the ground switching. Normally, only one rail is switched between center rail and dead, I just added a contact so that the rails are switched between center rail and outside rail.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:They're actually wired like a DZ-1008 except you have the extra connection to the ground switching. Normally, only one rail is switched between center rail and dead, I just added a contact so that the rails are switched between center rail and outside rail.
So which wire trigger's the relay off the DZ-1002/1000? Yellow or green?
Hello GRJ, I have a lot of these "Walthers Layout Control System -- Vertical-Mount Switch Machine and also Walthers Layout Control System -- Distribution Block" , you can find the write up here: "https://www.walthers.com/products/layout/track-and-accessories/switch-machine-turnout-accessory"
Do you think your new boards would work with these machines? If so, I'm very interested in using them where they are needed. Thanks in advance, WNYJOHN
The relay board is simple, put a positive voltage AC or DC from around 2V to 18V on the isolated trigger pins and it'll close the relay. So any task that has that type of trigger available can be used.
Can I order these?
@NYC 428 posted:Can I order these?
I don’t think anyone has done up kits or finished boards for sale. Were you thinking kits or finished boards? How many are you considering?
Rod
Just one to start so I can see how it works.
A kit or finished would be fine, but the kit would need good instructions.
Does this have anything to do with on my Ross double crossover,sometimes I have to go a little fast through it because when I go slow it seems like there's a dead spot?
@NYC 428 posted:Just one to start so I can see how it works.
A kit or finished would be fine, but the kit would need good instructions.
Here's what the instructions look like, not a lot to say, it's just a PCB kit building exercise. I have one kit still packed up here. If you want it, drop me a line on my profile email address.
<---click on graphic to expand--->
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Just wondering if anyone has taken the time to do up a composite hookup drawing for these boards with say a 175M or a DSS? And if so, do you mind sharing? 
Rod
@gunrunnerjohn do you still have any of these?
So I have mapped out how I think this could work with an RCS 175 crossover, as follows:
The switches are assumed to be thrown in diagonal pairs.
1 & 2 are trigger signal, active only when the switch is thrown to the A-A route.
3 & 4 are accessory power (preferred), or track power if running command.
Board Connections with J1 & J2 both jumpered:
5 is to both diamond tracks #2
6 is to track power center rail hot
7 is to both diamond tracks #1
8 is same as 7; N/C
9 is to outside rails common
10 is same as 5; N/C
So did I get this right? The only relay connections are contacts 5, 6, 7 and 9. Is this how you folks that have wired up a 175 are doing it? All that is being switched here is the 4 short diamond rails.
The only time the relay gets triggered is in the crossover A-A route position. It remains untriggered in all other conditions. The untriggered condition sets the diamond rails for route B-B crossovers by default.
What about the curved leadin rails of each switch. Do they need to be grounded when the respective crossover route is selected? It's likely better if they are, but is this necessary? They likely ground OK by contact with the outside rail when the switch is in the turnout position.
Rod
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Rod
your circuit seems to use one DZ-2502 to control all four machines.
According to Zander, you cannot operate the 4 switch machines with one DZ-2502, you need at least two.
@AlanRail posted:Rod
your circuit seems to use one DZ-2502 to control all four machines.
According to Zander, you cannot operate the 4 switch machines with one DZ-2502, you need at least two.
Well I just downloaded and reproduced the DZ hookup drawing, not really paying much attention to number of DZ-2502 switches. if it needs two, well fine I guess. I am really just trying to figure out the best way to hookup grj's replacement relay to toggle the short diamond rails. But thanks!
Rod
If you limit the throw to all four straight, or all four curved, 1 controller can do it. If you want to control each crossover separately, throwing two at a time, 2 controllers are needed.
@Ken Wing posted:If you limit the throw to all four straight, or all four curved, 1 controller can do it. If you want to control each crossover separately, throwing two at a time, 2 controllers are needed.
That would surely simplify the switch operation. Trouble is the diamond rail pairs 1 and 2 need to be alternately powered or grounded depending on the direction of crossover. For instance if its a B-B route then both rails 2 are hot and both rails 1 are grounded. And for an A-A route its exactly opposite. So you really can't have all 4 switches in turnout position, it has to be one crossover route or the other. At least that's the way I see it unless my relay hookup is totally wrong.
I am kinda hoping that grj or someone else who has used these relay boards will chime in here and show us how they hooked it all up.
Rod
@Rod Stewart good point. You don't necessarily need two DZ-2500, but if you only had one, you would need a second double throw switch to specify which route you wanted, so as to properly power the 1 and 2 rails.
