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While I wait for the #10 to arrive, I have naturally been researching the above.

I read a piece on the "Tinplate Times" site where a guy restored a poorly painted 408E: he begins by saying he prefers to try to save the original finish if possible, and he was able to strip off the crappy re-paint and save the original Mohave finish.

I've decided to try that approach with the "10". It seems like the baked on original paint could withstand the stripper; depending on what's used, how long it sits and maybe a little luck. The terrible black (🤬)  paint has to come off anyway, so using a stripper that will do the job quickly I think is crucial.

With that in mind, please share your thoughts and opinions. Thank you.

Mark in Oregon

PS: after that, we can discuss the mechanism. The wheels appear to be okay (intact) so I'm hopeful. 🙂

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@Rob English posted:

Mojave is WEAK in the best circumstance and stains readily. It stains with water. Permanently. Its a waste of time IMHO.... but it is your loco... do as you like!

The "Mohave" I mentioned was the original color of the 408E in the article; I think (judging by the eBay photos) that the #10 I'm getting was originally "Peacock".   Dunno if that's an easier color to "rescue"...

Mark in Oregon

Mark when I have done my tinplate restoration or fantasy paint scheme I use TSP, Trisodium Phosphate, to strip the paint off. Very easy to use and works fast and effectively. I just mix a few tablespoons in hot water in a plastic bin. Let it sit for 15 minutes or so, a light scrubbing with a toothbrush or scotch bright pad will bring you to bare metal.

@Strummer posted:

The "Mohave" I mentioned was the original color of the 408E in the article; I think (judging by the eBay photos) that the #10 I'm getting was originally "Peacock".   Dunno if that's an easier color to "rescue"...

Mark in Oregon

OOPS well Peacock is essentially similar in nature. stains easily especially when the paint is oxidized (dull). comes off easily.

Okay, you'll be sorry you said that! 😄

Another question, this one regarding freight car size. The TCA book says the 112 gondola is part of the "Early Small Series" and is either 7" or 9 1/2" long.

Here is a picture of the 112 I got last week:IMG_20220519_131536172

... it's clearly stamped "112". But here is a picture of its length:

IMG_20220519_131541828

...you can see it's 11 1/4".

So do I have an earlier "12" that's probably been refinished and stamped a later number?

Mark in Oregon

PS: still hoping to find some trucks for this...(hint,hint...). 😁

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The paint Estes & Hennings sold in aerosol form was lacquer. The paint Hennings sells now is an alkyd enamel. Lionel did not bake their train cars etc.,  but ran them thru a dip paint trough on a moving hangar. The paint was enamel.  If an item is over sprayed w/ lacquer, it will bubble up the original enamel paint.  TSP is the home method to remove paint. We use aluminum oxide in a sand blasting cabinet for total restoration.   Harry 

The #10 arrived today, so rest assured I'll be asking a lot of questions.

First impression: this is the first "Super Motor" I've ever seen; it's quite different from the power unit in the #33. The wheels are in really good condition; on the non-geared side have raised lettering: "The Lionel Corporation New York." I guess these are the original wheels(?) After the usual cleaning and lube, it seems to run well, but since I don't know what these are supposed to be like, I'm merely guessing.

The body, although intact and straight, is going to need a complete stripping, including the original "Peacock" paint. How is the safest way to straighten (then re-flatten) all those little tabs?Back when I was into later Post War stuff, I had to take apart a 45N; in doing so, most of those tabs broke. How to avoid that happening this time?

One of the couplers is really bent and is missing a piece, so it'll have to be replaced: how does one go about doing that, since it's kind of riveted in place...

Place stand by for more of the same; thank you.

Mark in Oregon

To save the tabs just lift each a bit at a time. Don’t attempt to move it the full 90 degrees if possible. The metal has some flex so you pull it at an angle to release the tabs. Reassemble the same way and don’t try bending back to the original position. The less angle they are bent the more likely they will not break off.

Pete

Another question: how do you go about accessing the commutator brushes on one of these "Super Motors"?

Online research only shows how easy it is when the wheels are pulled and the frame is disassembled. I don't want to have to go to that extreme; there must be a way... 🤔

Mark in Oregon

PS: I was able to remove one of the brass side panels; so far so good. Funny: I've never had much luck with "Brasso", but it worked great on this...🙂

Last edited by Strummer

Whether Mojave, Peacock or any other color is more durable just doesn't matter.  Authentic replacement spray cans are readily available.  Go the trainenamels.com and you will see the full list of Lionel colors.  I have about 20 spray cans of their different colors. 

I always strip to bare metal.   My preferred paint remover is white vinegar.  I use super market aluminum baking tins and totally immerse the piece that I am stripping.  At $2.50-3.00 per gallon, I don't even think about the cost.  It is reusable.

The vinegar may leave a light rust residue, but that comes right off with vigorous brushing.

I don't use a primer.  You can always add another coat to the part that isn't fully covered.  I bake it for an hour in our kitchen oven at about 175.  If I wait four to five hours before baking, it won't be noticeable in the kitchen.  Even my wife who is extremely fussy about that kind of odor doesn't notice it.  The paint doesn't care if you wait before baking.

I've done several restoration projects this way.  It really does work.

Here's a summary of the results of my vinegar bath.  First two photos showing the intiial condition - npot the same truck, but one in the same original convition.1 initial2 initial

Now the vinegar soaked truck after toothbrush scrubbing.5 ttoyhbrush scrub

Then some vigorous scrubbing of parts with this steel brush.

Here is a wheel after scrubbing with that tool



7 hard scrub

Here is a wheel after scrubbing with that tool

80 wheel compare

Here is a wheel after scrubbing with that tool





This light rust sometimes appears from the vinegar.  It whisks right off with  Dremel woe brush.

11 light rust

\My vinegar bucket wasn't quite deep enough and part of the wheel stuck out.13 contrasr

It's not yet finished, but now the remaining work is reasonable for the Dremel tool.  Another Dremel accessory that I fund handy for deep rust spot on a wheel is the sandpaper flapper.

Note that this is early standard gauged which is much more rugged than O gauge or some later sG.  For later trucks, I just pop the wheels out so I can work on wheels, axles and frames separately.  The problem with early SG is that the axle ends are swaged and you I don't see any easy way to take the wheels out of the frames.

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After reading the comments about TSP, I'm inclined to do a test comparing it with the vinegar.  I have these two old O gauge cars from about 1920 in my restoration queue.  I'll do one with vinegar and one with TSP or a TSP substitute and compare the results - I hope sometime this week.

It appears that TSP cannot be legally sold  now in MA because of the problem of phosphorous pollution of our waterways.  Has anyone tried the similar products that are free of phosphorous ?

99

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@Strummer posted:

Thank you for your input; the only "piece" I have to strip is the entire body, so I'll using a large bucket and whatever I end up using, either TSP or, as you suggested, white vinegar. That sounds like a good idea; we use that a lot around the house for cleaning...and it goes great with sliced cucumber! 😁

Mark in (wet and windy) Oregon

I have used ZEP citrus degreaser for a while now. Takes longer, filter and reuse, better the TSP for the environment (i think it is anyway) and its VERY gentle on the piece.

Thanks guys; those are both good suggestions.

I first tried a 2 1/2 gallon pail, but the body was slightly too long to be completely submerged; I then transferred to a "5-er", which was big enough for the #10 body to sit level in the bucket, so no additional water was needed. 🙂

I'm still wondering about those motor brushes, by the way...🤔 How do you get to those without having to disassemble the entire chassis?

Mark in Oregon

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