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You don't have to disassemble the whole chassis, but you do have to pull the wheels from one side to unscrew and pull out the brush holder.  Having done that, it is just four screws to take the side frame off and you can do a thorough inside cleaning.

To take the wheels off, you need something that will hold the bottom side  of the frame while you use a big hammer and a nail set to drive the axle out of the wheel on the top - slowly, carefully,  Be patient and it will come out.

I don't know what advice to give on resetting the wheels other than having an old vice like mine.  IT's an 80 year old vice (from y father's workshop) that has 2.5" between the jaws and is well squared.   Since the axles normally end at the wheel surface, it's easy to get the gauge right.  Don't know what modern tools will do the job.

ML

You don't have to disassemble the whole chassis, but you do have to pull the wheels from one side to unscrew and pull out the brush holder.  Having done that,

Umm, on the drum (barrel) commutator super-motor there is a single screw on the motor side plate about 3/8" from the bottom in the middle of the side plate between the wheels. Remove that screw and pull the brush holder plate straight out. Hopefully there is enough wire on them to get it out, otherwise you'll have to loosen the wire from the wafer with manual reverse switch. There is a brush spring detent on each brush tube assemble to release tension when reinstalling the holder.

See here: http://themotordoctor.com/lionel_super_motor.htm

A few more questions:

After I pull the brush plate out and replace the brushes, how does one get everything back in its proper place, since those brushes are under tension from their springs? How do you keep them "separated" enough from each other to then slide back onto the commutator? Stupid question I know, but still...

I'm working on a couple of #112 gondolas; after stripping and cleaning, what level of sheen should the truck frames have? I know it's probably a matter of preference, but I'm talking about the factory-applied finish. Gloss? Satin? Flat?  (If it matters, and according to the TCA book I have, these are "100 series type V" trucks for "later" series cars, with the blackened painted(?) side frames...)

As always, thank you!

Mark in Oregon

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Last edited by Strummer

Here is a technique that I have used successfully for holding brushes while assembling certain motto types.   Make a two inch long piece if cardstock about the width of the spacing of the brushes.  Make a hole in the center for the shaft of the armature.  US the cardstock to compress the brushes into the holders and wrap it around the plate, holding in place with Scotch tape.

Place that assembly over the armature shaft and start the brush plate screws just enough to hold. Then tear out the cardstock, which will leave the brushes in contact with the armature.  Then tighten the screws.

Here is a technique that I have used successfully for holding brushes while assembling certain motto types.   Make a two inch long piece if cardstock about the width of the spacing of the brushes.  Make a hole in the center for the shaft of the armature.  US the cardstock to compress the brushes into the holders and wrap it around the plate, holding in place with Scotch tape.

Place that assembly over the armature shaft and start the brush plate screws just enough to hold. Then tear out the cardstock, which will leave the brushes in contact with the armature.  Then tighten the screws.

Thanks.

I'm trying to visualize what you describe and it sounds like the chassis has been taken apart (?)... something I'm hoping to avoid having to do...

Please correct me if I'm getting it wrong.  🙂

Mark in Oregon

I call them character! Looks great, what kind of paint are you using? Keep the pics coming.  

Thanks Rich.

I used Rust-Oleum "Lagoon"; it was the closest to the Lionel "Peacock" I could find. Not exact, but close enough... for me, anyway. 😊

Just need to address those motor brushes, attach the headlights and re-assemble.

One of the things that struck me is what heavy gauge this stuff was made from. It's real metal! 😁 Lots of fun to work on...

Mark in Oregon

Headlights installed and working:

#10 Lights

...even this turned out to be an adventure; the slot/holes for the casting and the fiber contact piece was not large enough for both items to fit, so I had to do a little CAREFUL filing on the body to enlarge those openings.

Managed to do that without damaging the body and/or the paint, so we're good to go.

Mark in Oregon

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Here is a sequence of photos showing how I deal with the springs when mounting the brush plate.

Cut a piece of card stock as shown long enough to wrap around the plate.  Make a hole in the middle to fit the armature shaft. (I had to add a piece to the one shown.

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Put the brushes in the holder using the cardstock to hold them against the springs.  Tape the cardstock around the brush holder, aligning the hole with the hole in the plate.

IMG_7225IMG_7226

Place the brush holder in position   While holding the assembly remove the cardstock - use scissors to cut through one side and tear it from the other.

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Replace the screws and you're ready to go.

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For use w/ the open-faced brush holders, I have a simple fix.  Take a normal paper clip, bend out 1 leg straight, then bend the straight end into a "U" shape.  Now you can install the brush holder w/o the brushes attached, but with the springs in place. When re-mounted, use the paper clip tool to 'lift' the spring arm, and insert your brush in the holder, then just slide the clip tool out.  The Old Man   

P.S.  I will demonstrate on our next video podcast that the boys do every couple of weeks.   

The Train Shop Weekly - youtube

Last edited by Harry Henning

I appreciate everyone's input, I really do.

On the engine in question (a Standard Gauge #10) the armature is of a different type than the one shown in the above photos. I'm hoping someone reading this will know what I mean and can clarify...

In the meantime, here it is, looking bluer than ever (🤔) in the display case:

IMG_20220605_183843390~3

Still need to find a replacement coupler for one end, but as of now, everything seems to be working.

It's been a very interesting project. 🙂

Mark in Oregon

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Last edited by Strummer

Mark sounds like you have an older style “Barrel” commutator.

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Here is a link that discusses the importance of the phenolic washer, which holds the three commutator segments together, and how to epoxy them if its broken.  It sits above the solder ball on the left side of the pic, on top of the horizontal lip of the segments.

You should inspect this to make sure you aren’t going to have a blown commutator.
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...matures-commentators

Here is a pic of an engine I had picked up that suffered from a broken ring.

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Fortunately all three segments were still in the motor. I was able to clean this up, and used a ring of heat shrink tubing in place of the ring. I also placed a drop of super glue on the back of each segment to the shaft. So far so good with its performance. Unfortunately I hadn’t taken any pics of the finished product  

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Last edited by Rich Wiemann
@texgeekboy posted:

In the ‘before’ photo the grates (or whatever) on the side were a different color than the body. Was that a non-original mod?

Those "vents" were, as far as I can tell, always the same color as the rest of the body; but I'm new to Standard Gauge, so don't take my word for it.

Hopefully, someone who knows about SG will be able to give you a definitive answer...

Rich

Thanks for your response; yep, that's the kind I was referring to. 🙂

Fortunately, my armature looks to be in good condition; I just would like to know the best way to change the brushes without having to pull the wheels and disassemble the entire thing.

Mark in Oregon

Last edited by Strummer

Earlier in this thread it was suggested to use white vinegar for cleaning old, rusty parts; this didn't surprise me, as we use it for general cleaning around the house.

Anyway, a few days ago I dropped some wheels, axles and truck frames into a small container of it, then promptly spaced it out until this morning. Here are the results, after a simple wiping down of the surfaces and before any wire brushing:

wheels 2

It totally blew me away how well it worked. Thanks to all who suggested it!

Mark in Oregon

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...I might add here the vinegar did an equally terrific job on the truck frames. Here is a pic of what began as (2) very funky and rusty pieces:

trucks

I suppose giving them a light coating of some kind of wax or oil might keep them from rusting again(?) After all, the Oregon Coast is in what is considered a "temperate rain forest" type of climate...

Mark in Oregon

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Perception of any color is dependent on the lighting in which the object is shown, thus the variations under different lighting conditions. It should further be noted that the patina of an original Peacock loco would have faded somewhat over the decades due to exposure to UV light and other factors that would favor oxidation.

Last edited by Tinplate Art

Perception of any color is dependent on the lighting in which the object is shown, thus the variations under different lighting conditions. It should further be noted that the patina of an original Peacock loco would have faded somewhat over the decades due to exposure to UV light and other factors that would favor oxidation.

Very true. Although this newer color is better (in that it's less blue and more green), it still doesn't match the color sample from the TCA book.

Perhaps I should have gone with a tan finish...🤪 🙂

At least I got through it, and it runs well! 😁

Mark in Oregon

The name of this thread could be "The many shades of peacock", but I do want to keep it with "Restoration".  The photos embedded below are peacock shades from five sources.  All were taken today with my iPad and color checked against the originals.

The baseline for this is the 352E set that was given to my my around 1930. It was only 30 years old when I first saw it, not time for the color to have changed much.  It has always looked green to me.

Here is my set.DSCF0284

Peacock is somewhere between light blue and medium green.  Here is the 10E labeled peacock on page 69 of the 1976 TCA book.  It's sort of blue, distorted by the low resolution printing. IMG_7746

Here is one from Greenbug's new Standard gauge book.

I'd label it blue.  IMG_7748

Now Doyle's book.  Looks light green with a blueish tint.IMG_7749

Then there is the problem of lighting.  My photos are usually with incandescent.  Here's one of the cars under an LED lamp.

Looks like a greater blue tint.IMG_7751

Now back to my train which I'm preparing to sell as we get ready to move to a senior living community.  The sides and ends are almost C-7 but the roofs don't look good, and I want to repaint them to match the sides.  I have found Trainenamels to do a very good job of reproducing original colors.  IMG_7753

Their 10-peacock looks green, but it's not the same as my green.IMG_7754

As may be observed in the animal kingdom, one should not put two male birds together, especially peacocks.  So I hope my train will be bought by someone who doesn't have a clashing peacock    

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If you try to strip off the new paint it could wind up looking like this (photo #1 & #2) any way. So why not strip it down to bare metal and repaint. It will look brand new. I strip everything down, prime with an automotive etching primer, spray paint the finish coat and bake 30 minutes at 200 degrees.

They look great and wear well.

PS the diner was made from a Lionel #610 junk car.

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Well...

I thought this thread was dead, but I guess not; the observations regarding "Peacock" make a lot of sense to me, and I thank you all for your input.

I just picked up another #10; this one looks to be in great condition cosmetically, but the motor has no wiring and (2) of the wheels will need to be replaced. Here it is:

Green 10 #1

It's also missing this handrail:

Green 10 #2

...anyone have a spare, or can suggest a place that might have this? Hennings, maybe?

I guess it's time to get one of those "faucet pullers" and see if I can completely destroy this model...2 of the wheels had been replaced at some point in time, so that's good.

The big Greenberg book doesn't list a #10 in green, so I guess this is an older repaint...(?)

The fun continues.

Mark in Oregon

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