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Well, it’s finally here, the American Flyer SD70ACe.  This is the 6-42505 BNSF scale wheel version.


What follows are my observations and opinions.


Overview:

Wow.  Out of the box, this locomotive is impressive.  It’s a full 2” longer and a little taller than the U33C.  I’ll admit to not being 100% familiar with the prototype SD70ACe, so I can’t tell you if any rivets are out of place, but BNSF units have the headlights in the nose, not between the number boards.  

Review SD70 01

 

Review SD70 02

 

Review SD70 03 BNSF 9344 RailPictures net

Prototype image: RailPictures.net c. Warren Calloway

 

Overall, details appear to be based on Union Pacific SD70ACe’s.

Review SD70 03 UP 8520 RailPictures net

Prototype image: RailPictures.net c. John Witthaus


Regardless, the SD70ACe sets a new standard for American Flyer diesel locomotives.

The first thing I noticed was the pilots don’t flop around with the trucks, more about that later.  The next thing was while the handrail stanchions are still Delrin or similar material, the railings and grab irons are wire.  Very stiff wire.  These railings are a lot more durable than the U33C’s, but things can apparently still get bent slightly either during packing or shipping.  I’m working to straighten out the front railing a little better on this BNSF model, I’m not quite there yet.

There’s a largish gap between the truck side frames and wheels to allow room for the wider tread HiRail wheel sets (and maybe also the result of rescaling data from the O gauge model file.)  For the folks who this might bother, the side frames are held on by screws.  I haven’t removed the side frames, but it looks like it may be possible to elongate the mounting holes on the side frames and move them inward a bit.

Paint is even, lettering is crisp and there’s no overspray or smudges I can see.  There’s two crew figures in the cab and a gray plastic shield to hide the front motor from view.

The model has see-through radiator grills…

Review SD70 04

 

…and fan blades visible in the cooling and dynamic brake fans.  Blow on them, they will spin.

Review SD70 05

 

The radiator fan assembly lifts off, revealing the rear motor, smoke on/off switch, TMCC program/run switch and volume control pot.

Review SD70 05a

 

Even though my SD70 came factory equipped with scale wheels, Flyer coil couplers were factory installed.  Mounting brackets and screws for Kadee 802 couplers are included in the box.  Kadee couplers not included.

China Drive Syndrome:
The drive system has been on just about everyone’s mind.  There’s been a lot of fear and loathing particularly from the scale side when it was announced the SD70 would have twin vertical DC motors.  We scalers have been collecting pitchforks and torches in anticipation.

Well, I’ve blown out my torch and put the pitchfork away…  It’s not evil.

The SD70’s drive runs smoothly and has good slow speed response.  It runs as well as any traditional horizontal drive locomotive from AM or (former) SHS in my opinion.  

The SD70 also tracks through my Shinohora #6 and Old Pullman #5 turnouts with no trouble.

 

Command/Conventional Control:
The SD70ACe is also the first Lionel/American Flyer model that will run on AC conventional, TMCC/Legacy, DC analog and DCC.  No switches to set, nothing to remove, replace or rewire.  The internal electronics senses what is applied to the rails and responds accordingly.

I’m going to discuss DC and DCC operation here.  I’ll leave it to conventional AC and TMCC/Legacy users to report their findings as I‘m not really equipped to test these modes properly, other than verifying the locomotive does also work on AC and TMCC.

Analog DC:
Note:  The SD70 will run on DC, but it has to be pure DC.  In discussions and experimentations with the Y3 here on OGR, it’s been discovered that some contemporary DC power packs don’t output a pure DC signal and the model’s radio board reacts to the anomalies.  As a result with pulsed DC, the SD70 will run fine in reverse, but sit with the horn blowing in forward.  Several different power packs have been tried with the same result.  Reversing the wires to the track has no effect.

Lionel is aware of this issue and is looking into it.

 

My DC throttle is an old GML Enterprises 3 Amp throttle using the fixed AC output of an old MRC power pack as a power source.  I’ve had no problems running the SD70 with this particular combination.

With conventional analog DC operation, the prime mover sound activates at about 5.9v, lights come on around 7.9v and the locomotive begins to move around 8.5v.  Speed control is a good as your throttle.  The locomotive stops moving around 8.5v and shuts down around 6.2v.  In DC, there is no independent control for the horn or bell.  Direction is controlled as usual with the direction switch.  

I don’t know if add-on products like MRC’s “Black Box” function controller will access Lionel’s DCC sound features in DC mode.

 

DCC:
My DCC system is an MRC Prodigy 2.  I’ve tested the SD70 using the tethered throttle and the wireless upgrade throttle.

Lionel describes the SD70 as “DCC enabled.”  DCC gearheads expecting a decoder with a million CV’s to play around with are going to be disappointed.  The factory installed DCC decoder is built into the TMCC receiver and is designed to control Lionel’s TMCC/Legacy electronics, which control the locomotive.  

However, the DCC decoder has the NMRA standard CV’s for long and short addressing, consisting, acceleration and deceleration delays.  Available user CV’s are listed in the manual, along with Function Key assignments.  The decoder is capable for 14, 28 and 128 speed steps.

The manual is viewable here, DCC functions begin page 24:
http://www.lionel.com/media/se...541748171SD70ACe.pdf

 

CV50 is an interesting one.  Depending on it’s setting: 1 for lead; 2 for middle; 3 for rear; it will control the lights within a consist so that only the front lights of the lead unit and rear lights of the last unit will respond to direction changes.  Any intermediate unit will be lights out.  The horn, bell and TowerCom in the lead unit will be to only ones respond to commands when in a consist when CV50 is set.

I have had no problem programming the decoder on main or the programming track, but needed a booster such as one made by DCC Specialties to do a reliable read-back function on the programming track.

As expected, overall control of the locomotive is finer with DCC than with straight DC.

Pilots:
“Swinging pilot?  What swinging pilot?”

Review SD70 06

 

“Oh, THAT swinging pilot!”

Review SD70 07

Review SD70 08

 

OK, The pilots swing on the SD70.  This has been a REAL sore spot on the scale side, so I’m going to spend some time here.  

The pilots are mounted to the locomotive’s frame on a bracket that allows them to swing independent of the trucks.  They will remain aligned with the locomotive body through curves unless there is a car or locomotive coupled to it.  There is still a gap between the pilot and carbody, but it is less than the U33C’s.  

Now, for those who would still be upset with this arrangement, Lionel has provided spacers and screws to mount the pilots to the sheet metal frame.  Simply unscrew the Flyer coil coupler and bracket, unplug the coupler cable and remove the pilots.  

Four spacers and screws are included to “fix” the pilot.  The spacers go between the pilot and the sheet metal frame.  The instructions for mounting the pilots and Kadees escaped being put in the manual shipped with the locomotive.

The pilots must be mounted to the frame before the Kadee coupler brackets are installed.  Correct screws are also provided for this.  It’s also wise to mount the Kadee’s to their brackets before installation, they’re a lot easier to handle that way.  Once installed, the Kadee couplers are at the correct height according to the Kadee coupler height gauge.  

As before, there is still a gap, about .033”, as opposed to the U33C’s .055” on straight, level track.  A clever modeler could fabricate and paint a filler piece to fill the gap if he so desires.

I found the pilot gap on the rear of my BNSF unit to be greater than the front pilot.  However, the rear pilot and coupler were both sitting at the correct height and the body appeared level.  But, after a little investigating, it appeared the rear of the body wasn’t sitting quite all the way down on the frame.  By pressing carefully on the hood and frame, I could see a little “bounce” and close the gap.  It was very subtle, I probably wouldn’t have noticed it for a while if I wasn’t taking gap measurements.

 

I tried tightening the two screws underneath the end of the long hood that hold the body down, but they wouldn’t budge.  Not wanting to strip the mounting lugs, I removed the screws and added some thin washers as needed to pick up the slack.  Now both front and rear pilots have the same .033” gap from the body.  A minor issue and I don’t know if or how many other units are so afflicted.

 

Sounds:

I’m not real familiar with exactly how an SD70ACe sounds.  When I see them on the BNSF Chicago-Aurora racetrack, I’m usually more concerned with getting somewhere rather than railfaning and groovin’ to the sounds, plus they’re usually mixed in with GE’s.  I’ll take it on faith that this is how an individual one sounds up close and personal.  There are some EMD signature sounds I recognize in the prime mover mix, the horn and bell sound good.  The prime mover sounds will “notch up and down” as the locomotive accelerates and decelerates in both DC and DCC.  In DCC mode, the horn will sound as for as long as F2 is pressed.

However, the braking sound is well…  sorta sounds like an elephant in heat.  It sounds every time the locomotive is brought to a dead stop, so don’t stop it near a zoo or circus.  Or… DCC users can set CV54 to 0 to turn brake squeal off.  And, of course, there’s TowerCom.

 

Lights:

Numberboards are illuminated as long as there is DCC power applied to the locomotive.  The cab lights and headlights in the direction of travel will light when the locomotive is selected.  The cab lights go out when the locomotive starts moving.  The ditch lights will illuminate in forward only once the locomotive is moving and will alternate when the horn is sounded per current prototype practice.

 

Smoke:

Yes, The SD70 smokes where and when it should with a fan driven smoke unit.  I’m not a smoke enthusiast, so I’ll leave that for someone who is to talk about.  With DCC, smoke on/off is controlled by F8, or the smoke unit can be turned off permanently by the switch under the radiator assembly.

 

Curves and “Fixed” Pilots:
Now, this is a big locomotive, and being able to run on sharp curves is more about how far the coupler is from the truck pivot axis than overall locomotive length.  Mounting the pilots to the frame brings its own perils of overhang.  The following shows how much overhang there is on a 33” radius curve.  

Review SD70 09

 

And on a 29” radius curve:

Review SD70 09a

 

29” radius seems to be about as tight as you can go with fixed pilots and Kadees with this locomotive:

Review SD70 10

 

As the above picture shows, when coupled to a 50’ boxcar, the Kadee couplers are just about, if not at the end of their range.  A more modern car with an extended draft gear would actually make the situation a little better, but I don’t have any to test with.  If you have sharper curves, you may want to consider leaving the pilot pivoting bracket assembly in place and let the pilot swing.  

My 29” radius curves are inside passing tracks, and I haven‘t run into any issues with derailments so far because of the fixed pilots.  Otherwise, my mainline curves are 33” radius and there have been no troubles there.

 

Conclusion:
Well, I’m finally going to shut up!  But… not before an apples to oranges editorial.  

Submitted for your approval, a comparison of the Flyer SD70ACe with a custom painted and detailed River Raisin brass SD9, the only tricked-out S scale diesel I have that’s close enough to compare:

Review SD70 11

Review SD70 12

Review SD70 13

 

There will still be some in the S Scale modeling world who will equate anything with the American Flyer brand as toy trains.  Maybe they’ll change their minds with the SD70ACe, maybe not.

However, with the SD70ACe I think we can safely say that American Flyer has evolved well beyond the “toy train” stage.

Even with the design considerations taken for the traditional American Flyer operator, the American Flyer by Lionel SD70ACe is a great S Scale model.  I’m looking forward to other similar products in the future.

 

 

UPDATE 03/08/13:

Additional reviews and information may be found at:

Micheal Greens S Scale blog: 

www.s164.com

 

The S Scale SIG (Special Interest Group):

http://sscale.org/988/volume-2...diesel-first-look-2/

 

Carl Tuveson's American Flyer website:

http://www.tuveson.com/sd70/af_sd.htm

 

Rusty

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Images (16)
  • Review SD70 01
  • Review SD70 02
  • Review SD70 03 BNSF 9344 RailPictures net
  • Review SD70 03 UP 8520 RailPictures net
  • Review SD70 04
  • Review SD70 05
  • Review SD70 05a
  • Review SD70 06
  • Review SD70 07
  • Review SD70 08
  • Review SD70 09
  • Review SD70 09a
  • Review SD70 10
  • Review SD70 11
  • Review SD70 12
  • Review SD70 13
Last edited by Rusty Traque
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Rusty, thanks for taking the time and care to give us this review. 

I am very impressed.  Let me ask you one question, are the "gears" real noticeable on the trucks? 

Overall, I like what I see.  Maybe 2 UP scale units are coming, who knows.

Thanks again for a wonderful review.  I appreciate the contribution to make to the best scale on the planet!

Originally Posted by John Albee:

Rusty, thanks for taking the time and care to give us this review. 

I am very impressed.  Let me ask you one question, are the "gears" real noticeable on the trucks? 

Overall, I like what I see.  Maybe 2 UP scale units are coming, who knows.

Thanks again for a wonderful review.  I appreciate the contribution to make to the best scale on the planet!

John, the drive gears are not noticeable under normal viewing conditions.

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by Swafford:

Hi Rusty,

 

What type of Kadees did you install? I appreciate the review, pictures and time sent on posting the information.

 

Regards,

Frank

 

 

Kadee 802's.  That's what the mounting brackets are are drilled and screws supplied for.

 

A word of caution: While the mounting holes on the pilots for the brackets are drilled and tapped, there may be some paint that has worked its way onto the threads.  Work slowly and carefully when installing. 

 

Rusty

On sound, I talked with the people at Lionel about this engine.  What I was told is they recorded the sound of the actual SD70 to put into the O Gauge version so when they built the unit in S they used the same sound.  It sort of sort of sounds like a jet plane in a way.  Much different that the U33. 

I write for the S Gaugian magazine and will write a review of the SD70 soon and submit it.  Your info is good as it is a long version, which would never get into print there.  Unless they will have one of their writers do a scale review I will reference this one because I am a Hi Railer only.

I have written the Roundhouse column for over 3 years.

Got my BNSF SD70ACe recently.  Seems like a keeper so far after a quick visual inspection, recommended lube (yes, the manual says to lightly grease the drive train gears on both trucks unlike the Lionel MKT PA video which says to leave them dry --?) and test run on my layout.  It is fun to see how far AF diesels have come.  


Is the color supposed to be a very dark green or black?  It looks black, yet for some reason I though BNSF uses a very dark (nearly black) green like the PRR did.  Anyone know?  Thanks.

 
I haven't tried it yet with DCC, but hope to after a good Legacy shakedown.  The NCE PowerCab is one of the systems supported.  I have that system with a Smart Booster.

Attachments

Images (1)
  • IMG_0576

As an owner of the O gauge Legacy version of the Lionel SD70ACe, one can not help but be struck by the great similarity (both inside and out) between the O and S scale versions of the details concerning the engineering, modeling, and manufacturing. Possibly, a reason for these appearing to be very good right out of the gate is because the good folk at Lionel had taken the same developmental path once before.

 

All looks and sounds very good so far. Thanks, Rusty, for the review. I am looking forward to the DL&W Heritage version in the fall.

 

Bob

Thanks for the info on BNSF SD70 paint colors and lighting configurations.  Sorry for not having noticed that I left the fore and aft cardboard separators in my engine before photographing (and running) it.  They're gone now.  

 

NCE sells the Smart Booster.  I bought mine years ago to boost system power up to 3A, but I think the current model is 5A.  You can buy it outright for about $130 or they used to offer an upgrade for those of us with the original for $60.  I haven't done so, but with more S engines getting made with DCC, particularly with more larger DCC S engines, (currently I only have a DCC SHS 2-8-0 with very low amperage draw, and I run petite On30 engines with rolling stock as Sn42 on HO track with my NCE system as well), I may upgrade sooner than later. 

So I got my three powered SD70s. Two of the three wobble as the travel down the track at any speed. One is bad, and will be going back to Lionel. It appears as if one of the axles on the rear truck is bent and is causing the wobble. The other one is not as bad, I'm going to let it run a whole and see if it is a breaking in issue. Sad, I was looking forward to these for a long time, now two might have to go back. Did anyone else notice a wobble in their engines? Ben
Originally Posted by NotInWI:
So I got my three powered SD70s. Two of the three wobble as the travel down the track at any speed. One is bad, and will be going back to Lionel. It appears as if one of the axles on the rear truck is bent and is causing the wobble. The other one is not as bad, I'm going to let it run a whole and see if it is a breaking in issue. Sad, I was looking forward to these for a long time, now two might have to go back. Did anyone else notice a wobble in their engines? Ben

Ben, scale or hirail wheels?

 

Either way, a bent axle is a bummer.  But your other one may be a much simpler problem.

 

I picked up a Mopac unit that has hirail wheels and there's a slight wobble.  It appears to be caused by the traction tires.

 

My scale wheel BNSF unit has no wobble.

 

 

Also:

Rumor has it (heard it from 2 trusted sources)  that Lionel's going to release a scale wheel conversion set for the SD70 seeing demand appears to have outpaced production.

 

Rusty

 


 

Rusty, First, sorry I realized after I posted I kind of hijacked your thread! They are high rail. I will look at the tires on the one with the lesser issue. It's been running 20 min and I think I see an improvement. I had the same issue with my Milwaukee road U33 and it resolved itself in about two hours run time. I will look at the one that is worse off (bnsf) to see if there is a traction tire issue, but I think it is an axel. They do look and sound wonderful! Ben
Got mine today (at least tge first one), they're beautiful.  I'm looking for another UP, scale wheels.   I seemed to have changed the address correctly, have horn,bell, etc., but no forward or reverse.  I have NCE 5amp system.  Thanks for your help in advance.  I think it has the best sound I've ever heard.  I too would like to see a WP heritage unit or/and a Savannah & Atlanta unit.
Originally Posted by John Albee:
Got mine today (at least tge first one), they're beautiful.  I'm looking for another UP, scale wheels.   I seemed to have changed the address correctly, have horn,bell, etc., but no forward or reverse.  I have NCE 5amp system.  Thanks for your help in advance.  I think it has the best sound I've ever heard.  I too would like to see a WP heritage unit or/and a Savannah & Atlanta unit.

Try cycling through the speed steps, sometimes when the address is changed, the speed step setting doesn't always follow for some reason.

 

I've gotten my unit into mumble mode occasionally when fooling around with the CV's.  The best way to clear things up is with the programming track function of your DCC unit.

 

You may need a programming booster like one from DCC Specialties for the programming track to increase programming reliability.

 

http://www.tonystrains.com/pro...pg|powerpax_1307.jpg

 

Don't feel bad, I keep finding out new things with the SD70.

 

Rusty

Rusty, thanks for your help.   I did figure it out.  After resetting the decoder via cv8 I did exactly what the manual says do and we're all good.  I'm ashamed to admit my initial error was trying to set the road number as 8343, not 8348.  This recent blindness in my right eye is killin' my rr career.
In thirty years of model trains, this is the best loco yet.
Sounds are great, even measured with all my Tsunami
decoders.  Can't wait to find the other UP number and I will have the two for my UP connection!
Thanks again to you Rusty and Michael, both giving excellent reviews!

I concur. I ran my CSX scale wheel model on my code 100 switching layout tonight under DCC and came away very impressed. Very large step forward from the U33. Although not my favorite prototype, a very fine model in all respects. Well done Lionel and well done Jon Z. The electronics are seamless, and that is exactly how it should be.

 

Now that we got all the bugs out how about some Gen I diesel power ;-)

Originally Posted by John Albee:

Rusty, still haven't figured out crewtalk in DCC.


As far as I can recall, there's no way to shut off crew talk in DCC, but I think it's also only controlled by some of the higher (above 10) function keys.  I don't have my manual handy (and the online one seems to be having troubles.)

 

The only "automatic" crew talk is by pressing F5 while the loco is stopped, when it deselects the loco and shuts down.  When running, F5 runs the "emergency stop" scenario (which won't stop the locomotive, you get to do that yourself.)

 

I can live with the crew "going to beans" or whatever during shutdown, it's relatively painless chatter.  I simply don't press F5 when running.

 

Rusty

Rusty,

 

Fabulous review!  I wish we had a section on the forum just for reviews like this, so everyone can make informed decisions as to what they should or should not purchase.  One could create forum subsection for Atlas, WBB, MTH, Lionel so finding a specific model/manufacturer would be easier.  I know OGR mag has a couple of reviews each issue, but it doesn't even come close to the number of models that are released each month.  A set of rules/guidelines can be drawn up as to allow for a consistent look and feel of the review.  Just food for thought.

Originally Posted by Rusty Traque:
Originally Posted by Swafford:

Good Day Rusty,

 

How are your SD70ACe's running? 

 

Regards,

Frank 

Until I can get hold of some scale wheels, the MoPac is a wallflower.

 

The BNSF runs just fine.  No problems whatsoever.

 

Rusty

Rusty Traque,

Thanks so much for the in depth review. I enjoyed reading it.

 

Are you saying the wheels (scale/hi-rail) are interchangeable or drop out like newer MTH locomotives?

 

A few years back when the subject of China Drive came up on the 2 rail forum some people theorized that the China Drive would work very well if the gear ratio was changed so it was no longer geared for high speed. Is it possible that Lionel has made this change with this new model?

 

And what is said cost for this beasty?

Originally Posted by Hudson J1e:
 

Rusty Traque,

Thanks so much for the in depth review. I enjoyed reading it.

 

Are you saying the wheels (scale/hi-rail) are interchangeable or drop out like newer MTH locomotives?

 

A few years back when the subject of China Drive came up on the 2 rail forum some people theorized that the China Drive would work very well if the gear ratio was changed so it was no longer geared for high speed. Is it possible that Lionel has made this change with this new model?

 

And what is said cost for this beasty?

The MSRP for the Flyer SD70ACe's is $479.99

 

The gear ratio was changed for the second run of U33C's and the new gear ratio continued on with the SD70's. The SD70 runs as well as any of my SHS and AM models.  It seems to have dispelled a lot of the criticism about the "China Drive."  As far as I know, all following models will have the newer gear ratio.

 

BTW, my Shay reviewed elsewhere has a vertical can motor in the tender driving the lead axle, a design that PBL has used with their Korean builders for 30+ years, long before model trains were made in China.  I wonder if that too classifies as a "China Drive?"

 

The wheelsets are replaceable, the axles are no longer pushed through a solid truck block like ye olde Flyer.  If it wasn't for the different gear ratios, I'd plop in the scale wheels I got for my EL U33C into my MoPac unit.

 

Rusty

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