What is the difference between DZ 1000 and the DZ 2500? And do you think the difference in cost is worth it?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
the dz2500 can be controlled by a handheld remote through the MTH AIU or the lionel legacy system. the dz1000 can not. I dont really think its worth it i use the dz1000 with the push buttons
Could you have that backwards? There are wiring diagrams on the Z-stuff site for connection to an AIU and the Lionel switch controllers so it appears the DZ-1000 can be operated remotely from their info. I thought it was the DZ-2500 that would not work with an AIU or SC1 & 2, only with the TMCC data driver?
Also the DZ-1000 can be operated manually, but I don't think the DZ-2500 can.
The other night I was comparing track and switch opinions for when I build my layout, specifically what controlled the switches. Looking at the DZ2500 it comes command equipped which means less components you will need to buy when configuring the switches to be operated the cab-2 remote. You will need the data drive (Info Here)from Z-stuff from what I have read.
They way I understand it if you are going to be using Lionels LCS, then you will need a SER2 (Info Here) to connect the data driver from Z-stuff. My question would be does this setup allow to throw the switches from the LCS on the ipad? Also, will it update the switch position, if the switch was wired for command and button control or do you have to also get STM2 (Info Here)?
As far as I know the dz1000 cant be operated from a command system. they only have three wires that come out of them. the DZ2500 has 6 wires for command switching if I recall correctly.
crood Marty would be the guy to talk to about Ipad use and switching. He seems to have a handle on it from the videos that I have seen.
Joker,
Thanks for the information. I will have to look to see if I can find these videos. I personally think that there is a lot of opportunities with LCS system from what I have seen on-line via reading or watching videos. Sometimes you have to do a little research, but you can find answer. The other times there are grey areas where your not sure if one specific solution will work the way you want.
Chris
Originally Posted by joker34:
crood Marty would be the guy to talk to about Ipad use and switching. He seems to have a handle on it from the videos that I have seen.
I think of the DZ-1000 switch machine as a dumb machine just like what comes on the Atlas O switches and the OLD Lionel switches (not the new Fast Track stuff). It works with MTH's AIU, Lionel's SC1/2 and ASC, and most two button controllers just like any of the other dumb switch machine.
I think of the DZ-2500 as a smart machine with a mini computer in it. It comes set up to receive TMCC signals directly just like the new Fast Track TMCC switches. Its button controller has only one button; each press changes the switches position and you can reprogram the red and green lights to match the switch position as needed.
Being a smart machine, the DZ-2500 can also be reprogrammed to act like a dumb machine so it can be controlled by the AIU for those who only have DCS. However, if you are going to control your switches with a AIU the DZ-100 makes more sense cost and complexity wise. I would also use a DZ-1000 for conventional layouts.
If you plan to control your switches using a TMCC or Legacy controller/base, then it makes sense to use the DZ-2500.
At the Worlds Greatest Hobby Show in Edison and again in York there was a display layout with working DZ-2500 machines. They are slow throw machines and can be configured to react from a single input wire. The display layout, which demonstrated pretty much all of the Z Stuff products had a RDC that took different routes as it moved back and forth. Dennis from Z -Stuff explained the DZ-1000 cannot accomplish that. When I get to that point on my layout I plan on changing out the 1000's with 2500's for the increased functionality offered.
Here is their phone number and e-mail address. I would call Dennis and ask him.
General Information: drzander@aol.com |
Phone 585-377-0925 |
Address Z-Stuff for Trains 420 Mills Street Hinsdale, IL 60521 |
The DZ-1000 can be wired into the AIU on the DCS unit and the Lionel accessory unit for the TMCC or Legacy base accessory unit. Follow the instructions from either DZ Industres or Gargraves or Ross website.
Anybody who says the DZ-1000 can't be wired in to a command system needs to re-read the info on the DZ-1000.
The DZ-2500 might be a non-wired unit for use with either commnd system.
Lee Fritz
No one talks about the looks of these machines. I used DZ-1000 machines on my last layout. They worked fine but I thought they looked terrible. I'm going back to under table machines of my new layout. Had them two layout back and while they were a little harder to install, I thought they were well worth it. Don
Huh? You can operate the 1000s with you Cab1/2 with an ASC or SC You can throw a 2500 without the above but you need a serial cable connected back to the command base.
The information is out there, both from Lionel, Ross and Z stuff.
The information is out there, both from Lionel, Ross and Z stuff.
Channy,
I sometimes have a hard time reading Z-Stuff's instructions, so I put together my own diagrams to help me wire my layout. The 1st diagram below is how I wire my single switches for TMCC operation. I do not use an AIU, but the 2nd diagram is based on the data in the DZ-2500's manual. Basically you follow the instructions and reprogram the DZ-2500 from one wire (TMCC) to two wire (DCS) operation.
While the DZ-2500 can be wired for either TMCC or DCS operation, I still think the DZ-1000 for DCS is easier to wire.
While 'scale rail' above is pushing for under table mounted machines to give him that scale look which may or may not be what you want, I do agree with him the DZ-1000s are large and some engines have low level parts that can hit it. If you plan to mount the machines to the switch on top of the table, the DZ-2500 is much smaller than any other machine so is somewhat less noticeable.
Much more detail on Z-Stuff's web site.
Attachments
Images (2)
The DZ-2500 can be mounted under the table as well. If you search the forum (Thread), some guys have made their own mounts or you can buy commercially available ones (example).
Like I stated, I am seriously considering using the DZ-2500 for when I build my layout. I just have some questions as I previously stated in this thread (quoted below) about the switch machine working with Lionel LCS.
Chris
Originally Posted by crood58:
The other night I was comparing track and switch opinions for when I build my layout, specifically what controlled the switches. Looking at the DZ2500 it comes command equipped which means less components you will need to buy when configuring the switches to be operated the cab-2 remote. You will need the data drive (Info Here)from Z-stuff from what I have read.
They way I understand it if you are going to be using Lionels LCS, then you will need a SER2 (Info Here) to connect the data driver from Z-stuff. My question would be does this setup allow to throw the switches from the LCS on the ipad? Also, will it update the switch position, if the switch was wired for command and button control or do you have to also get STM2 (Info Here)?
Originally Posted by crood58:
My question would be does this setup allow to throw the switches from the LCS on the ipad? According to previous threads on this subject, the answer is yes.
Also, will it update the switch position, if the switch was wired for command and button control or do you have to also get STM2? To get switch position, you have to have the STM2. The issue is Lionel nor anyone else has said it will work with the DZ-2500 in command mode. Still waiting for an answer.
I have both TMCC and Legacy components I will be controlling from the Cab2/iPad. Here is how I will hook up my LCS. It does not include the STM2.
Attachments
Images (1)
Ron,
This is how read on how to set it up. Thanks for sharing your diagram. I would bet that in order for the switch position to be updated on iPad LCS app, that you would need a STM2, especially if someone is also hooking up the DZ-2500 to push buttons too. I wonder if anyone has done it yet.
Now my question would, since you are hooking the DCS also to the data driver would you be able to throw switches via DCS along with Legacy/TMCC. The only thing that I can see if the layout is big you will need multiple AIU's to hook all the switches up.
Now my question would, since you are hooking the DCS also to the data driver would you be able to throw switches via DCS along with Legacy/TMCC. The only thing that I can see if the layout is big you will need multiple AIU's to hook all the switches up.
Chris
Originally Posted by CAPPilot:
Originally Posted by crood58:
My question would be does this setup allow to throw the switches from the LCS on the ipad? According to previous threads on this subject, the answer is yes.
Also, will it update the switch position, if the switch was wired for command and button control or do you have to also get STM2? To get switch position, you have to have the STM2. The issue is Lionel nor anyone else has said it will work with the DZ-2500 in command mode. Still waiting for an answer.
I have both TMCC and Legacy components I will be controlling from the Cab2/iPad. Here is how I will hook up my LCS. It does not include the STM2.
Chris,
I am using DCS for engine control only; all layout functions are via TMCC/Lagacy. I am not at my desktop, and my iPad is not showing my picture. I think I posted an older, uncorrected picture where it showed a TIU in the mix. It should say TPC. I'll correct it tomorrow. Anyway, no DCS component should be connected to the data driver.
FYI - the only DCS components on my layout are TIUs; they are connected in passive mode.
