RR Club video in 4K?

Very crisp image.

Here's another showing the farm

 

 

Sam, lots of times the quality of video is highly dependent on the source.  In the old computer days, we had an acronym GIGO... Garbage In Garbage Out.  And the same holds true for audio/visual technology.

 

The latest OGR Great Layouts video #11 is SUPERB, FANTASTIC, MAGNIFICENT on blu-ray at 1080P.  Can't say enough great words about it.  I know lots of the new 4K TV's have very good up-scaling algorithms.  But after watching the 1080P version on my 54" HDTV (non-4K), I can't imagine anything better... except perhaps on a very large 96"+ home theatre screen where the extra resolution would be more noticeable.  But for the average TV size, I think 4K isn't necessary if 1080P material is captured well and produced properly to disc.

 

David

Thanks for the compliments, David. The current HD standard of 1080i (interlaced) or 1080p (progressive) can provide a wonderful viewing experience. Like anything technical, there are many facets to producing good video. Good camera equipment, proper lighting, smooth camera work and two world-class layouts all combine to make GLA-11 our best layout video yet.

 

4K is currently the next step in the march of television technology. However, I'm with you in that the current HD standard is just fine, even on very large screens like your 54-incher.

Sorta on topic, but sorta non-train related, frankly.  And not that anyone really cares that much because good looking footage is good looking footage, regardless. 

Capturing video in the 4K format (or even in the 8k format -- yes, it is being done, mostly in Japan) is incidental really based on your output format.

For instance, you are not viewing 4K raw video when you play your camera or iPhone back to your TV.  It is down converted to a format your device will recognize.  And the video is compressed depending on what hardware or software system you are utilizing for output.  Compressed video does not equal raw video.  You cannot view your video in an uncompressed 4K viewing experience without a 4K TV or monitor.

It will generally look great converted to, say, a 1080p output scenario if done correctly.  But it won't look necessarily any better than something you shot natively in 1080 on your Canon video camera. 

Unless you view a super resolution format on a super resolution medium (IMax, for instance), it doesn't really do that much.  It's kind of false hype, in a way, until we all have higher resolution viewing equipment.

As an example, occasionally high resolution video is delivered, say, to ABC Television.  The Producers are going for that super film look experience.  At the end of the day, ABC down converts that video to broadcast in their 720p output standard, and much of the filmatic crispness and color is totally lost along with some amount of blurring of action and artifacts in the frame.  Not to mention the further compression performed by DirectTV and other providers.  At the end of the day, 4K, 24P and other cool resolution solutions are compromised.

What matters at the end of the day, really, is how you illuminate the material you are shooting and how well you capture it through the lens.  That's why a Director of Photography position is a good suggestion as a career for your kids or grand kids!  It is truly an art.

So not to be a complete downer, but don't get too excited yet about 4K.  You are just fine if not better with shooting in 1080, for now. 

Timbo

Interesting Tim,  thanks. Does the size of the aperture have anything to do with it? Am curious as to how the relatively small lens opening on the phone could allow only so much information.

In our case, we are viewing it on a new 27" Retina 5K monitor. Camera was downloaded directly onto the computer. Is there likely any of the compression you mention in this situation?  I'm a rank novice in video...

Sam

 

Indeed, the tiny lenses on iPhones and Androids are detrimental to great quality video  especially in low light situations.  You are absolutely correct in assuming that the small opening does not allow enough information into the sensor.  The smart phones and a lot of the digital cameras these days use software based aperture solutions which utilize what little light is coming in and compensate mathematically to formalize the appropriate imagery.  But, just as having a peekaboo pin hole on your front door, only a tiny bit of light will get through and your entryway will still be mostly dark with only shadows and murkiness.  But put in a big three foot square window and your entryway is flooded with light and you can easily discern the Picasso on the wall.  

 

So If you want to shoot in low light, like maybe a night scene on your layout.  And if you want to see all the appropriate detail in high resolution, you are still going to get far better results with a larger opening that lets in as much light as possible.  Software does wonders, but it doesn't stack up to analog light focused through big glass.

 

Shooting your layout in a non-brightly lit room, even in 4k, will result in muddy viewing.  I use my iPhone all the time to shoot my kids on the train at Disneyland (that is the obligatory reference to trains to keep my post from raising the ire of the management). I use my iPhone because it is simple and because I am shooting in bright daylight.  I still use my Nikon SLR to shoot videos indoors when the lighting is dimmer and artificial.  And I get far better results even though the Nikon is capturing in 1080p (which is a quarter the resolution of 4k).

 

If you are downloading directly into your computer, I assume you are loading into an editing program? Both Avid Media Composer and Final Cut X can edit natively in 4k, but you need a lot of memory, a fast processor and a Thunderbolt or HDMI cable to your 4k compatible monitor.  Also, if you are really into maintaining the native resolution, you also need to be aware of the codecs that you are utilizing for conversion.  For instance, many Mac users default to working in the .mp4 format which typically utilizes the H.264 codec.  They don't realize that the H.264 solution is not optimized for working with 4k and they have already compromised their video without knowing it.  Yeah, yawn.  Terribly boring stuff.

 

Then, when you are done editing natively, you need to output to a native 4k format -- which won't be viewable by most people anyway in full resolution.  If you upload to YouTube, you are already compressing the video for transport.  And your users on the other end have conversion solutions happening on their end right inside their browsers when they are downloading or viewing your masterpiece.

 

But that's all mumbo jumbo voodoo technical nonsense that really only matters if you are going to be outputting native 4k in order to present your video at the Smithsonian IMAX theater (but in that case, you should be shooting in 8k...).

 

Again, 4k doesn't really matter to most mortals... yet.  It is optimized to look great on REALLY big screens and also when you are sitting a proper distance from the screen.  Otherwise, you aren't going to perceive any difference as a regular human from what you would see on boxing night on HBO in 1080p on your 70" screen.

 

Basically, without getting all silly about this, if you are making videos to upload to YouTube, keep doing whatever you are doing -- if it looks great to you and the users on the other end -- then it's perfect.  You don't need to worry about any of this nonsense.  I only know two people who really and truly understand all these acronyms and codecs and formats and pixel depths and aspect ratios.  And they are not fun at parties.

 

Have fun!

Timbo

 

You are probably correct on this:

 

Again, 4k doesn't really matter to most mortals... yet.  It is optimized to look great on REALLY big screens and also when you are sitting a proper distance from the screen.  Otherwise, you aren't going to perceive any difference as a regular human from what you would see on boxing night on HBO in 1080p on your 70" screen.

 

 

My eyes are not what they use to be. I just bought the 4K 70" HD at Sam's and WOW.

 

For a old guy thinking it was real big and how much fun I was going to have messing with my sons on the next visit, guess what....70" at about 18 feet is not that big. But, you sure  can see the 4k difference based on looking at our other HD TV's

And ...so cool, I don't even have to wear my glasses to read the Direct TV menu.

 

 

 

Larry

OOPS!

Silly me - I just got the phone and didn't realize that it shoots in 720p, 1080p, and 4K. Has to be set beforehand. These first two clips of the GM&O are 1080p. The two below are now 4K. I think I can see a slight bit of difference but am not sure. How about you guys?

 

Tim - your input is greatly appreciated here. I don't understand a lot of it but perhaps in time I will. My setup here is a recent 27" iMac with the 5K Retina display - an all in one unit so I must assume that it has the proper interconnecting hardware/software?

 

This is member Harry's beautiful Premiere SD70

 

 

Would love to see that 70" set Larry!  Which one did you settle on?

Hay Sam

 

I ended up with the Vizio M70-C3 with the VIZIO SB3851-CO Surround Sound System.

 

I'm still learning the manual?????? I do have it hooked straight to the e-net via the house modem, but that's it so far on that adventure.

 

I only thought the manuals from Legacy and DCS was complicated

 

Football season will never be the same with out one of these puppy's. hee.

 

Larry

Those are some very crisp videos!!

 

 

i shoot most everything in 1080i, sometimes 720 if it's only going on You Tube. All drones shot are shoot on 4k because we might use the aerials again at a later date. It's the same reason films are being transferred to 4,8 or even 12k. The studios are looking to the future. 

Don

 

 

The enhanced resolution is nice, but I wonder if it does not expose other critical nuances of the video process.

 

For instance, the camera movement and focus changes seemed less smooth and more evident, distractingly so, than they could have been. Did anyone else notice that? Would that be due to ambient light, camera settings, auto-focus adjust algorithms,  physical movements of the camera, or...? 

Roy, this was shot with a I phone. I don't think you can expect all that much other than a nice sharp picture. I only get my wife's hand me down I phones so I don't know much about the 6 but I'm sure most everything is auto. Don

Agreed..I shoot most video in less than 1080 because what I use it for does not require any high def and it greatly reduces file sizes, making the files easier to handle. The lower resolution also allows me to record more video on my memory cards. 

You're very welcome, Rich.  I still take issue with MANY of the forum's moderation decisions (as I see one of my posts was deleted again today), but I give credit where credit is due when I see something nicely produced as this video.

 

As for moderating this forum, I've pretty much decided along time ago that we see things from an entirely different viewpoint.  And that's the way it will always be.

 

David

MartyE

 

I was actually referring to the 70 inch more than 4K. Heck with my eyes  I can tell 720 from 1080 and that's about the extent of it anyway.

 

Never had a tv near that size before.

Larry