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The RS2 in my Lionel “yellow belly” 490 Hudson (6-18043) engine quit working.   While running, the sound slowly faded , went to static then stopped. There was a wisp of smoke from the tender and the smell of burnt electronics.   The command board still operates the engine.   Tried the following to restore the sound feature.

  1. Purchased new sound board, had to get one for a commodore Vanderbilt (6-18045). The description on the burnt and new board are the same; 589-699 Railsounds 2.5 rev 1.
  2. Successfully tested the new board in a Commodore Vanderbilt (6-18045).
  3. Placed the new board into the 490 Hudson (6-18043) using the Commodore sound chip sets and it failed to work; no sound.
  4. Removed both Hudson chip set modules from the burnt board and placed them into the new Commodore board, still did not work; sound board was in the Hudson.
  5. Tested the 490 Hudson sound chip sets in the Commodore Vanderbilt and they did not work. Placed the original Commodore sound chip sets back into the board and it worked when tested in the Commodore; i.e. the replacement sound board is operational.
  6. Tested each connection of the 490 (6-18043) wiring harness with a VOM. All the connections were good. Moved the wires in a circle when testing to insure a good connection.
  7. Contacted Lionel for the process to perform a hard reset of the LCRU board (610-8043-126). Executed their instructions without success, sound still failed.   This process was attempted using both the Commodore and Hudson sound chip sets using the sound board that worked successfully in the Commodore; both failed to produce sound.
  8. Tested the speaker and POD from the Hudson on the Commodore Vanderbilt, they both worked correctly.
  9. All engine functions still work correctly for the CAB 2 remote, except sound.
  10. The sound board is receiving power.   When adjusting the POD some faint clicking and static can be heard coming from the speaker.

With the exception of replacing the LCRU (610-8043-126) board I am out of ideas. This board is responding to all CAB2 commands and the motor is running very smoothly. There is no sign of burning on the LCRU and no sent of burnt components. The LCRU board is very expensive and I do not want to purchase one if the original is still operational.   Any ideas would be appreciated.

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A few comments that might help.

The first red flag is between Steps 2 and 3. The power provided to the RailSounds system through the tether to the C&O tender is right off the pick-ups of the locomotive without going through any electronics. Did you try to see if the sound system would work in conventional mode? If the sound system powers-up in conventional but doesn't do anything in command, then the LCRU could possibly be the issue. (In this case, the sound system would be waiting for a command through the serial line, which it isn't getting.) If it doesn't work in conventional either, then the problem is likely localized to the sound board and its accessories (volume pot, speaker, etc.) or in the wiring from the locomotive to the tether.

The PIC and ROM chips should be switchable between the boards (although they should be kept as matched pairs). Sometimes when swapping chips I've found that they don't work on their first installation. I usually extract them again, wipe the chip contacts with contact cleaner, and reinstall to get things working. It's possible your C&O 490 chips could have been damaged by the original board, but I've rarely ever seen that happen.

Another problem is trying to reset the LCRU in your C&O. That LCRU is an LCRU1, which DOES NOT respond to any reset commands. (Your Vanderbilt has the later LCRU2, which does accept them.) You won't hurt anything by going through the steps, but nothing will happen.

If I were you, I'd go back to your working RS2.5 sound board with your Vanderbilt chips in it. Install that in your C&O tender. Test in conventional mode with your command base unplugged. If it still doesn't work, the problem is that it's not getting power through the tether, or it could be the volume pot or speaker.

Good luck-

TRW

I am not familiar with the engine but did you check the tether wiring between the loco and tender?

If you need to replace the LCRU use a ERR AC Commander. It is cheaper and allows 100 speed steps.

Maybe worse case gut the electronics and upgrade to the AC Commander and Railsounds Commander which is Railsounds 4 or 5 based. 

Nick

Not likely the LCRU.  The Commodore tender and the Yellow belly tenders are not wired the same. The Commodore tender has a four prong plug and the C&O has six. While both tenders have the same plugs for the circuit board, they connect to different pins in the tether. I highly suspect the power and ground pins. The guys at Lionel service should be able to supply you with a modified wiring diagram with the correct pin-outs from the six prong plug to the 4 prong plugs. Once you get that figured out, you might be able to use your original PIC and ROM chips for the original soundset.

Last edited by Chuck Sartor
JeffreyJ posted:

the pod and speaker were tested in the working commodore and both worked.  The tether was tested with a VOM and passed.  I did NOT try placing the system into conventional mode and testing the sound board.    In conventional mode, is the LCRU unit bypassed?

You essentially eliminate the LCRU as a cause by working in conventional mode.

Chuck Sartor posted:

Not likely the LCRU.  The Commodore tender and the Yellow belly tenders are not wired the same. The Commodore tender has a four prong plug and the C&O has six. While both tenders have the same plugs for the circuit board, they connect to different pins in the tether. I highly suspect the power and ground pins. The guys at Lionel service should be able to supply you with a modified wiring diagram with the correct pin-outs from the six prong plug to the 4 prong plugs. Once you get that figured out, you might be able to use your original PIC and ROM chips for the original soundset.

Chuck, I agree with you that I don't believe it's the LCRU, and that the tenders are not wired the same. One correction though, is that the Vanderbilt has a six-pin tether and the C&O has eight.

The wiring diagrams for the C&O locomotive are here, and the tender here. Scroll down to the last page of each file.

The RS2.5 board gets its power from the black and black/red-striped wires. As you can see, it's a straight pass-through from the locomotive, without going through any electronics. Like Chuck said, start there.

TRW

Hello Everybody:

It is the LCRU that is bad.   Connected the sound card directly to track power and it works great with both the Commodore and Hudson sound chips.   When the sound card is plugged into the tether it does not work in either conventional or command.   Placed a VOM on pins 1 and 2  (they supply the sound card power) from the engine and received a reading of about 12v in conventional.  I suspect that the current output is the issue most likely caused by a failed card or an aged solder joint.  I plan on re-soldering the wires to see if that fixes the issue. 

Marty, can you please let me know how much you want for those parts, I like having spares and like you I share a great deal of "classic" parts with others.   I am new to the forum and not really sure about the rules of discussing purchases and giving out email.  As such could you please contact me via the tca-gulfcoastchapter.org website.   Just go to the contact us button in the menu bar at the far right hand side.   I check for emails from this site every morning.

I would like to thank everyone for their help.  You helped me solve a perplexing situation.

JeffreyJ posted:

Hello Everybody:

It is the LCRU that is bad.   Connected the sound card directly to track power and it works great with both the Commodore and Hudson sound chips.   When the sound card is plugged into the tether it does not work in either conventional or command.   Placed a VOM on pins 1 and 2  (they supply the sound card power) from the engine and received a reading of about 12v in conventional.  I suspect that the current output is the issue most likely caused by a failed card or an aged solder joint.  I plan on re-soldering the wires to see if that fixes the issue.

Hold-up for a minute... unless I'm reading something wrong, what you've said doesn't make sense.

1) You've proven that the sound system works when connected to track power. That's good, as it eliminates things like the speaker and volume pot.

2) It doesn't work in conventional or command when connected to the tether, but you're getting a reading of 12v in conventional on pins 1 and 2. If your track power is also 12 volts, then that's good. Track power and the voltage on pins 1 and 2 should be exactly the same.

3) If you're in conventional mode, and you're getting the correct track voltage at pins 1 and 2 across the tether, and you know the sound system works, then there is no reason why it wouldn't work. If you trace pins 1 and 2 (black and black with the red stripe) back through the locomotive, you'll see that they're wired DIRECT to track power. There is no LCRU or any other electronics involved.

We still don't know if your LCRU is good or bad, but the above scenario should work in conventional. I suspect that the tether is not delivering track power to the tender.

TRW

If you definitely had smoke come out of tender, the RS board had to have some damage.  Did you test the damaged board in your good engine?  Just to ensure it was bad.

Regardless, you know the replacement board works with your old chips, so now why not work in the engine.  It very well can be the LCRU.  The RS May sense command mode and stay quiet, but not have serial data getting to the RS board to operate it.

So, swap LCRU from the engine.  If it works the LCRU is in fact bad.  If not, there must be a tether issue oif some sort.   G

Last edited by GGG

Examined the LCRU board with a bright light and magnifying glass.  One of the components has melted; the surrounding board is burnt and a diode has a burn mark at one end.  The LCRU board  definitely  needs to be replaced.   Maybe you have some parts that I need for another engine.    I need a smoke level bracket (610-8045-505), smoke manifold (600-8306-214), and a smoke lever assembly (610-8045-216).  The LCRU board and  manifold are still available but the other parts are not.   These are for a Commodore Vanderbilt (6-18045) engine.

Would you have these items available?

Are you sure that you didn't accidentally reverse the tether connections...

i had a Boston and Albany steamer with tmcc that came out after the yellowbelly.

The tenter connecters if I remember we're not keyed....you had to align by th missing pin or connector....I reversed the wires accidentally. Although, it didn't take the sound board. It sure did damage the Lcru.

I took a close look at the LCRU board and is has melted components and a burnt circuit board.   It was hard to see without a really bright light and magnifying glass.   The circuit board is burnt in two different places.  One is by Q4 and the other is by a diode.  Could not read the number, it was burnt off.   

Whoever said this is a LCRU version 1 board is correct.  The Commodore Vanderbilt has the LCRU 2 board.  The board is still available from Lionel.

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