I am very excited to learn recently that with the new MTH WTIU that is forthcoming that I will be able to run a PS1 engine on the same track with a PS2/PS3 engine.
One of the things I really enjoy while running my PS2/PS3 engines is the ability to have such precision control and run the engines at very low speeds .
Will I now be able to run my PS1 engines with the same accuracy?
My apologies if this subject has been covered in a previous post.
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NO.
Because PS1 is still PS1- AKA conventional operation, where speed is controlled by voltage on the track. You don't have a speed control feedback loop (AKA Cruise).
Further, while you can run the engines on the same track- doing so at the same time- a lot less practical since you will be controlling the track voltage and not giving the full track voltage for your command (DCS) locos.
Don't get me wrong, this is not a limitation of the TIU/WTIU, this is just a PS1 conventional control. Your engine either has the advanced electronics and features or it doesn't. So just saying, PS1 is still PS1. They are not bad and I have retained a few of them, but if you want cruise- then you have to upgrade to a speed feedback looped control system (PS2 or PS3) for DCS control.
The only way to control a PS1 engine as Vernon said is to use the variable voltage output on the TIU, which works with any conventional engine. Engines running PS2/PS3 usually want a base voltage of 18v, if you vary the voltage for the PS1 engine trying to run a PS2 at the same time could be difficult if not impossible.
As stated above, there are limitations. Also as stated, you CAN run different engine types on the same track at the same time, I did it often a few years ago. One can run PS2, and PS1 and old PW engines at the same time.
Also.... BUT - the limitations certainly do not make it easy, nor maybe even worthwhile, to do so. Good luck, always good to experiment- which is more or less what I was doing. The "running" of all together, did not last long, I just wanted to do it for "did its" sake. The larger the main line, the easier it was as I recall.
It just shows another side of DCS that the developers had thought about and considered, long ago when it first came out. Still, all these years later, an amazing product!
Thank you all for the replies! Understood... :-)
Your insights are helpful to me...
@gladstone23 posted:I am very excited to learn recently that with the new MTH WTIU that is forthcoming that I will be able to run a PS1 engine on the same track with a PS2/PS3 engine. Yes, you "can" do this, however, because PS1 is conventional, thus controlling track voltage to run that engine- that's all the voltage the other DCS command control engines would have on the same track and could lead to problems.
One of the things I really enjoy while running my PS2/PS3 engines is the ability to have such precision control and run the engines at very low speeds . This is because PS2 and PS3 incorporates a tachometer feedback system on the motor and with full track voltage, the motor controller has headroom voltage to ensure the motor maintains a commanded speed regardless of load or grade. Again, the idea is 2 things, #1 sending a digital control method that is not track voltage based, and #2 that engine having full track voltage (18V recommended) such that the electronics and speed control feedback precisely controls the RPM of the motor with feedback and has the voltage headroom to compensate as the motor load changes.
Will I now be able to run my PS1 engines with the same accuracy? Likely no. This is again because PS1 is a conventional control system without any feedback loop or "cruise" as called out in other brands. Do not get me wrong, the TIU can send a very low starting voltage to the track under the variable outputs and has fine control over that voltage- but you are still limited by the engine itself being a conventional engine.
My apologies if this subject has been covered in a previous post.
I should have been more precise. Above answers inline with your direct questions.
@gladstone23 posted:I am very excited to learn recently that with the new MTH WTIU that is forthcoming that I will be able to run a PS1 engine on the same track with a PS2/PS3 engine.
One of the things I really enjoy while running my PS2/PS3 engines is the ability to have such precision control and run the engines at very low speeds .
Will I now be able to run my PS1 engines with the same accuracy?
My apologies if this subject has been covered in a previous post.
Sadly no. While you can't control the PS1, we have run slow, conventional control (aka PS1) engines on the same track with Command (TMCC, Legacy, PS2, & PS3) engines and you just keep the controlled engine from hitting the other train.
@BobbyD posted:... we have run slow, conventional control (aka PS1) engines on the same track with Command (TMCC, Legacy, PS2, & PS3) engines and you just keep the controlled engine from hitting the other train.
... or the other train from hitting the conventional one.
This method of controlling two or more trains, one of which is conventional, works only until you lower the conventional throttle to the point that the command control units powered by it stop in their tracks because TMCC or DCS no longer have enough voltage to operate.
On a small layout it takes constant fiddling to avoid a collision and keep everything moving.
On a large layout it's not as much trouble because the space you need between trains to ensure that there are no collisions can be much larger.
Mike
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:... or the other train from hitting the conventional one.
This method of controlling two or more trains, one of which is conventional, works only until you lower the conventional throttle to the point that the command control units powered by it stop in their tracks because TMCC or DCS no longer have enough voltage to operate.
On a small layout it takes constant fiddling to avoid a collision and keep everything moving.
On a large layout it's not as much trouble because the space you need between trains to ensure that there are no collisions can be much larger.
Mike
Huh?
When we run a conventional (even MTH PS2 and PS3 engines in conventional) all we need is for them to be slower than the other (TMCC/Legacy) controlled engine because we ONLY need to control the one engine. You just go faster or slower as needed. Very simple to do, even the guest kids do it all the time.
"This method of controlling two or more trains, one of which is conventional, works only until you lower the conventional throttle to the point that the command control units powered by it stop in their tracks because TMCC or DCS no longer have enough voltage to operate."
Which you would NEVER do.
@BobbyD posted:Huh?
When we run a conventional (even MTH PS2 and PS3 engines in conventional) all we need is for them to be slower than the other (TMCC/Legacy) controlled engine because we ONLY need to control the one engine. You just go faster or slower as needed. Very simple to do, even the guest kids do it all the time.
"This method of controlling two or more trains, one of which is conventional, works only until you lower the conventional throttle to the point that the command control units powered by it stop in their tracks because TMCC or DCS no longer have enough voltage to operate."
Which you would NEVER do.
I've accidentally done it many times, primarily because I have a small layout and there's always one catching up with another. Too much fiddling for me to keep them separate, and keep the throttle level high enough to keep TMCC and/or DCS alive, but not so high that the PS1 engine flies off the track.
Mike
In certain situations you can make this work. I have a PS1 doodlebug series wired so it runs at 16 volts. Then I have a PS2 doodlebug.
I start them at opposite ends of my 24x8 layout. Set the transformer at 16 volts and let them idle for a minute. Start the PS2. Press the direction button and PS1 takes off. On my phone set the PS2 to 25 mph. Adjust accordingly.
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