S gauge FlyerChief GP7's are arriving from dealers...tell us your views and/or reviews.

We seem to have two threads going on that are very similar, but here's my "solution" to my UP Geep's poor performance.  I went to the auto part store to find those stick-on weights.  They had them but they're no longer made of lead (Pb).  Are they afraid we're going to eat them or something?   Oh well.  They're still heavy and have adhesive on them (they're iron, BTW).   The ones I got are in .25 oz. increments.  I added a total of 1.5 oz. and it made a difference.  I tested it on  my layout, and it pulled my 7 cars up the grade with no wheel slipping.  On level track, I'm sure more can be pulled.  I also cleaned the track and wheels, but they were fairly clean to begin with.  So here's my weights in place. 

They had to be staggered like this to clear the shell.  It was a tight fit, but they fit nicely (notice the pencil marks on the deck).  I couldn't add any weights in the front of the motor due to the wires for the electro-coupler.  By the way, in the process, I broke a wire leading to the coupler, but was able to re-solder it in place after carefully removing the Mylar tape surrounding the coil.  I know, I know.  I voided the warranty, but at this point, it doesn't matter any more.  In the process, I also mixed up a batch of Testor's Model Master grey paint to try to match the UP grey so I can paint the pilots.  They aren't a perfect match, but they're look better than black.  If I find a better match, I'll repaint them, but for now, it's fine.  I've tried matching Lionel colors in the past, and they're difficult to match, but I used to use Floquil paints.  They're no longer available, so I use whatever I can find, but NO KINDERGARTEN WATER BASED FINGER PAINTS! 

 

 

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What I do not understand is why there is such a large variance in pulling power experienced by the owners of these engines. As I commented in the other thread my new UP pulled 14 Gilbert freight cars up a 2% grade around a 180 degree curve, no signs of slippage. When I get some free time I will see how many cars it will pull up a 2.4% grade before slipping or stalling.

Tom

poniaj posted:

 

While I was perusing the insides, I noticed that the circuit board had a couple empty sockets.  I wonder what they're for?

Programming connectors. Top right is Bluetooth. One in center is engine code.

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

The test results are in. 20 car freight, 2% grade, 180 degree curve. The UP was able to strart the train on this grade, slight wheelspin while accelerating, none at steady speed. I was surprised how much force it took me to pull the train by hand, indicates I need to lube the wheelsets! This engine is a great puller. 

Here is a picture of the test area.

40E4E440-2A92-42CC-867A-414E9AE893D4

Tom

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poniaj posted:

 I removed the shell to determine where any weight can be put.  

 

There is a bit of room between the motor and the circuit board:

I'm going to get some lead stick-on weights from the auto parts store tomorrow and see if it makes any difference.

 

 

 

 

 

Jerry, I agree that adding weight by the motor will help. With the space shown it looks like you could secure  tall slender pill bottles on both sides of the motor...front and rear. Then you could add lead pellets or BB's and add the cap. Maybe that way you can add precise amounts of weight by varying the amount of pellets.

Mark

katy409 posted:

AmFlyer - that’s what I am looking for !   I do not understand the difference of pulling power!   That much motor difference?      

Dave Olsen - on the next run of the GP7 - any chance of having two motors and adding some weight ?      

It isn't that you motor is any different to others, if the wheels are slipping it has the power but just can't lay it down to the track.

Could it be that one of the wheels is not touching the track and causing a problem, clutching at straws now.

banjoflyer posted;

 Jerry, I agree that adding weight by the motor will help. With the space shown it looks like you could secure  tall slender pill bottles on both sides of the motor...front and rear. Then you could add lead pellets or BB's and add the cap. Maybe that way you can add precise amounts of weight by varying the amount of pellets.

Mark

There's no room in front of the motor due to the wires leading to the electro coupler and the light holder in front of the shell.

 

  The weights I added can be augmented by more if needed.  I'll try to add more cars on a grade for my own benefit to see what this thing can do.  I have no doubt that on level track it can do much better.  (I still like the grey pilots. )

 

 

 

 

katy409 posted:

Dave Olsen - on the next run of the GP7 - any chance of having two motors and adding some weight ?      

Can't add a second motor but looking into adding weights near the motor.

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

Question for Dave:

Is there any chance we could see a more scale/detailed version of this geep in the future? Sorta like what you did with the Berk? Or not because the Berk was designed with that in mind? Just curious as this model doesn't cut it for a lot of people. It looks too toy-like.

Thanks.

-Jonathan

jonnyspeed posted:

Question for Dave:

Is there any chance we could see a more scale/detailed version of this geep in the future? Sorta like what you did with the Berk? Or not because the Berk was designed with that in mind? Just curious as this model doesn't cut it for a lot of people. It looks too toy-like.

Thanks.

Can't rule it out. It would be a challenging one to fit Legacy in. We have lots of fun things planned already, but this is a good idea. Appreciate the suggestion.

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

Dave Olson posted:
katy409 posted:

Dave Olsen - on the next run of the GP7 - any chance of having two motors and adding some weight ?      

Can't add a second motor but looking into adding weights near the motor.

Which begs the musical question:  Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo?  Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.

 

Rusty

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Rusty Traque posted:

Which begs the musical question:  Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo?  Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.

 

Not a typo. Much wider shell. Plus the out-pour of requests for two motors in the GP made me design the switcher to have two. Just can't do it in the GP.

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

Dave Olson posted:
Rusty Traque posted:

Which begs the musical question:  Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo?  Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.

 

Not a typo. Much wider shell. Plus the out-pour of requests for two motors in the GP made me design the switcher to have two. Just can't do it in the GP.

Thanks, Dave.  Just curious.

Rusty

Got mine back from warranty repair service after 5 weeks.  Paper in the box says it was fixed and tested, however, it makes the same loud gear grinding noises in both directions. In fact it is so bad in reverse that it grinds to a halt. I guess I'll have to pay another $20 to ship it back.  That means I will have paid an extra 20% on top of the purchase price to get a loco that works.

HI All,

 

Finally had a chance to spend some time with my SF Geep.  I'm rather disappointed in the pulling power.  Tried a mix of PW Flyer and S helper cars and it couldn't start a train of 9 cars (Flyerchief Berk and Legacy Y-3 had no trouble).  Would just spin the drive wheels.  Any advice on taking the shell off?  I'd like to add some weight and see what happens.  

Thanks,

Tim

I just got a call from a guy in my train club with a UP and he proposed a new idea about why these engines loose traction.  He feels that the springs on the track pick ups are too strong on some engines and they create enough tension pushing down on the track to cause the slippage to occur.

Any thoughts?

Yes the problem most likely is the pickup rollers. Not the springs but the travel Of the post not having enought room to travel up all the way. I had to bend the  lead wire down on another loco with same roller set up. I have two f/c diesels that do not have a wheel slip problem and can pull 12 to 15 cars without any slippage.also check the the condition of the traction tires. They may be dirty, oily, or loose on the wheel.

Good point Milan.  The condition and functioning of those vertical lift small diameter pick-up rollers must be A-1 in every way - full vertical travel being a key parameter to check.  Had similar issues/needs with those on 6-48075 NH EP5.  Not the greatest design, but if your trackwork is nearly perfect and everything about every pic-up is too then they'll work pretty well.  Don't let one get hot - the square post travels up and down inside a plastic housing. 

David Horn

Precision Flyer Repairs

Specializing in S-gauge train repairs, upgrades, and DCC conversions

Member NASG, TCA, BAAFC, and founding member ACSG Old Dominion Division 

 

Hi all, My first post on OGR -- Have had an AF 335 steamer since my grandfather gave it to me in 1952. For some reason, when I pulled it out of the attic this Christmas for the first time since 15 years ago, I can't put it away. So am going all in now building a 5 x 9' layout in my garage and I want to inaugurate it when I'm done, first with my steam engine, but also with a new Flyer Chief Union Pacific GP7. I'm hoping Lionel's second run of these will be released before my birthday next month (late April).

I'm also hoping that Dave Olson's efforts to solve the loose traction issue can be implemented by Lionel in the second run (Dave was talking about maybe adding some weight in the cab, and I hope he also sees these latest posts). I can hardly wait to get my hands on this engine.  Have any of you heard anything yet about when to expect them to be available again?

I love this forum,

Ken 

I can't believe it still runs well...

ARNOLD A KLOIAN posted:

FOR ARTISTIC SENSE, i would paint the geep's sideframes gray to overcome the gaudy silver look as produced...the Berkeley specialist, Arnold k..

The UP started painting trucks silver in 1955, so Lionel got it right for all practical purposes. 

EMD GP7 UP 118

It'd look better if the model's pilots were painted gray like they were supposed to be (and like Jerry did at the top of this page.)

EMD GP7 UP 125

Rusty

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Thanks for the feedback...Yes, I knew about U.P. and their silver trucks, its just that the comparison of the long age

Gilbert diesels with the long wheel bases, in what I thought was gray seemed more complimentary to the rest of the colors ; gray and yellow.  but, it could be the photos, or the flash that is highlighting it too much....And as pointed out about the fidelity of the trucks to that of the prototype, I wonder what set off the designers at (lionel) or associated modelers, to not make the truck more narrow looking...And a hello and thank you again to Jerry Poniatowski for his fellowship when I was in Michigan,,,  

ARNOLD A KLOIAN posted:

Thanks for the feedback...Yes, I knew about U.P. and their silver trucks, its just that the comparison of the long age

Gilbert diesels with the long wheel bases, in what I thought was gray seemed more complimentary to the rest of the colors ; gray and yellow.  but, it could be the photos, or the flash that is highlighting it too much....And as pointed out about the fidelity of the trucks to that of the prototype, I wonder what set off the designers at (lionel) or associated modelers, to not make the truck more narrow looking...And a hello and thank you again to Jerry Poniatowski for his fellowship when I was in Michigan,,,  

Granted, the new trucks are less than perfect visually because Lionel's reusing the Baldwin switcher (which is also too short for the truck it's supposed to represent) truck as a basis. 

However, after the initial shock, I find the new trucks better looking than the "oversized gym shoe" Gilbert truck.  Combined with the new fuel tank molding and new pilots the overall look of the GP7 is vastly improved while still maintaining the "traditional" guise.

FC GP 06FC GP 04

Now, if Lionel could only improve on the handrails a little bit...

Rusty

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ARNOLD A KLOIAN posted:

Thanks for the feedback...Yes, I knew about U.P. and their silver trucks, its just that the comparison of the long age

Gilbert diesels with the long wheel bases, in what I thought was gray seemed more complimentary to the rest of the colors ; gray and yellow.  but, it could be the photos, or the flash that is highlighting it too much....And as pointed out about the fidelity of the trucks to that of the prototype, I wonder what set off the designers at (lionel) or associated modelers, to not make the truck more narrow looking...<snip>

Gray-painted trucks would appear less undersized than silver-painted trucks. I kinda like the old handrails, because they give the piece a more Gilbert-like 'look' that is in keeping with this GP-7's 'mission'. Given the price, my NKP sample continues to please.

Bob

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Rayin


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