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Well Santa's elves and Fed-ex must have been working overtime as I received my new GP7's  (and 2 PE cars) 2 days earlier than expected.

The Santa Fe GP7 is beautiful and responds perfectly to the remote. The electrocouplers do open wider than those on the AF SD70's and ES44's so using these type engines as a switcher is fun and easy to do. I had a few tiny paint nicks in the yellow on the handrails and a wee bit of paint creep from the blue to the yellow color on the engineers side of the front of the engine. I had some craft paint that matched perfectly and touched up all the nicks with a few dots of yellow color. The sound is a bit loud from the factory but it is easily changed by holding down the announcement button while turning the speed dial left for quieter and right for louder. The speaker sound quality is "OK " and it's doubtful there was any spare room inside the engine for a more robust speaker.

My UP GP7 is also a good runner with one nit to pick. For whatever reason when running short hood forward I can hear a "tick tick tick tick" sound from the wheels (rear truck I think) when rounding an r20 AF Fastrack curve. All my curves are r20. But....it doesn't do it on all of them...just maybe 6 or 8 out of more than 50 or so of them. Kinda sounds like the wheels may be touching some of the ties? That's a mystery. I put some gear lube on the gears and oiled all the axles so maybe it will quit soon. There were 2 tiny paint rubs on both sides of the short hood in the "Armour Yellow" color. I don't have a paint to match but I'm sure there's one out there. Sound was identical to the Santa Fe unit.

The thing I like best is now I can run two remote control smallish engines on my point-to-point switching track. While one engine is dumping logs into the log loader another can pick up barrels at the barrel loader on the same track at the same time.

The addition of these two engines now gives me 4 FlyerChief engines so it's time to heat up the Universal Remote and I'll be able to control 3 of them with one remote at the same time. Originally I thought the Android APP would be the way to control all the engines but then I found out you can only operate one engine at a time. You have to completely stop and disengage from the first engine to access another using the APP. Bummer. The Universal Remote is the way to go for now.

While I'm here I'll just mention the new PE cars. They are great! The add-on coach perfectly matches all the original cars as to paint color. You can see that the wiring has been upgraded so I don't expect any lighting/wiring problems with these new cars or the single bulb inside. Maybe next month I'll get around to changing the lighting over to LED like all my other PE cars so that they will all match. I also received the PE wood sided reefer. It is a neat car. As has been noted in many other posts these reefers don't have the detail of an SHS or MTH reefer but that's OK by me. This car will be my "Santa's Express Reefer" carrying all those perishable treats we receive at Christmas and will ride prominently as the first car behind the tender.

Well that's my report. How do you like your new FlyerChief GP7 engines?

Mark

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Hello,

FedX is definitely working overtime. I received my Chas. Ro delivery late yesterday morning. It arrived as we were leaving on a shopping trip so I did not get a chance to operate yesterday. This morning I opened the boxes and found as Mark mentioned a beautiful add on coach for the P.E. and a pretty nice looking P.E. refer. I also ordered the Santa Fe Blue Bonnet locomotive. I was a bit disappointed in the packaging of the engine, as I pulled its shipping box out of the larger box which the three items came, I tipped the box and heard the engine inside of the box go clunk, the box did not have the usual Styrofoam lid on it allowing the engine to float inside of the box, this may be the reason for some paint chipping as Mark mentioned. I ran the GP this morning and did notice some surging of the speed, that may go away with some break in time, I also notice the side frame on the power truck is a little cockeyed, high at the front and lower toward the rear. I ran the two cars behind the engine and did have them both derail a few times, checking the gauge of the wheels showed they will need some adjustment on both cars. The new P.E. coach will in the near future get the LED lighting as all of the rest of my P.E. cars have. Happy to have this before Christmas.

Merry Christmas to all

Ray

 

Last edited by Rayin"S"

As I said on another string mine arrived too.  It works great and pulled 20 Gilbert freight cars easily on Gilbert track and switches.  16 cars up the Gilbert trestle set on my layout.  21 cars is all I ever do as the weight pulls the cars off around the corners.

No rubs or scuffs on my UP version.  Very well done.

Mark, the manual on page 16 gives you a different way to adjust volume.  It doesn't work as written.  Your method of holding down the Shift/Announcement key does work. This should be noted to people so I have used red here.   

On the PE car the wires are longer to the trucks where they are soldered.  Earlier cars had shorter wires and that was part of the problem.  With shorter wires it pulled at the solder on every turn.20171218_150309

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I received mine too, the North Pole Central version just for running under the tree.  Runs well, sounds are good, electrocouplers actually perform intended function. Most impressive to me is the app. With the lionchief app I get almost almost all of the functions I make use of with Legacy engines.  I lose connectivity though when I am about 15 feet away.  A little annoyance on the app is that I do have to hold my finger on the slide bars for a while to get them to move.

I received my UP today and it has a broken roller on the rear truck. It does run that way but it has a lot of gear noise going forward and is silent in reverse. The blue tooth connection is VERY slow to respond. Has anyone compared the  Apple vs Android to see what worked better? I used Android......

I will be sending it back. No fun under the tree with it this year....

 

 

I have not done a comparison between the two but I have used the android app and it seemed to work fine, I would say definitely not slow. Because, though, I could only control one locomotive with the app I now have the universal remote, updated by some very nice Lionel Reps. That works very nicely with my three Flyer Chief locomotives.

Ray

Last edited by Rayin"S"

Mine had all kinds of varying issues. After close inspection i believe the screws on the trucks were not tightened all the way in the factory. (I found a screw on the track and then tightened the remaining truck screws , they were loose.) allowing the truck to arc on the track damaging the board. That's my working theory to explain how erratic it was acting. My replacement should be on the way. 

Mine had all kinds of varying issues. After close inspection i believe the screws on the trucks were not tightened all the way in the factory. (I found a screw on the track and then tightened the remaining truck screws , they were loose.) allowing the truck to arc on the track damaging the board. That's my working theory to explain how erratic it was acting. My replacement should be on the way. 

Thank you GREEKCHIEF, I checked the screws on the trucks on my GP, they were loose.,now my side frames are level. I did find one screw that was not holding at all, not long enough but I will replace it.

I will say the Railsounds on the GP is very loud, if the first run Berks had volume like these I would have never chaged the speaker.

Ray

Last edited by Rayin"S"

While some know I have more or less left S (I am keeping some fastrack and a few pieces of Flyonel) I did make that decision after I ordered the UP unit earlier in the year.  

I took delivery of it on Saturday, but just got around to running it tonight.  My thoughts;

I ran it with just the Bluetooth app, for me I don’t much see the use in the remote anymore.  

The paint was without flaw, I have seen a report or two of smudges, no issues with mine.  All the screws were pretty tight, I did maybe get a half a turn out of one, but I don’t think they would have come off without attention. The Railsounds were all good.  The locomotive functioned as advertised and the electro couplers actually released the attached car.  The packing is also an improvement in my opinion, this has a lid on the box like a shoe box, more in line with what you see in the high end HO world. 

My only negative, the motor noise was louder than I would have expected.  Both in forward and reverse. It is well  disguised when the rail sounds is turned up, but still, I have older Flyonel engines that made less noise. 

Considering the price point of this and it’s features....I give it a solid “B”.  

Ben 

Chuck K posted:

I received mine too, the North Pole Central version just for running under the tree.  Runs well, sounds are good, electrocouplers actually perform intended function. Most impressive to me is the app. With the lionchief app I get almost almost all of the functions I make use of with Legacy engines.  I lose connectivity though when I am about 15 feet away.  A little annoyance on the app is that I do have to hold my finger on the slide bars for a while to get them to move.

After about 20 minutes of run time, it's a different story. Two truck screws have fallen out. Threads are stripped and they will not stay in.  Also gear noise is very loud, esp. in reverse. It is emanating from the worm gear.  Lastly, because of the comments above, I checked the side frame screws. One is in at an angle and another has the hex head stripped and cannot be removed, a necessity when replacing the traction tires.  Off to Concord it goes.

I finally got to run my ATSF units.  The units looked good, no issues.  I had no loose screws.  The dedicated remotes worked.  One remote will control both engines in unison.  Universal remote - I put the first engine on the track - the universal remote connected right up.  I removed that engine and put the second engine on the track and the universal wouldn't connect.  I cleared the remote but still no connection.  Not sure what is going on there.

I wasn't planning on MUing the two but tried it anyway.  I set them on the track, but not coupled, and ran them to see how well they matched.  The two engines didn't accelerate the same.  There was only one particular throttle setting where they were relatively close.  Maybe after break-in runs they will match better.

I was able to pull 15 flyonel 40 footers with one engine before the engine started to struggle.  

The biggest issue is that both units growl going around my R27 fastrack curves.  It sounds like the traction tires are dragging.  I don't have any R20 track setup to test with, yet.  

Brendan

 

Update on my issue.  I tried to narrow down the growling.  As I ran the engines more, the sound actually sounds like part of the engine rubbing the ties.  It only happens on certain pieces of R27 track.  I moved the pieces around and the sound followed them.  When I get more time I will try to see the differences in track pieces.  i set up a loop of R20 and there was no issues.

Brendan

Brendan

The “first” batch of R27 curves had a defect of sorts, the simulated spike on the rails were to tall, and made contact with some of the flanges of highrail wheels.  This was a popular topic at the time (like 5 years ago) on this board.  Lionel advised at the time, that it did not effect the operation of the trains so they were not going to do anything about it (as far as identifying it as a defect).

I believe Mike R at the time had said that future runs of the track would have this fixed.  I don’t know if they ever did another run of track, and if so, if the issue resolved. This is something I have often wondered about.

Maybe Dave Olsen can chime in on that.  I personally purchased one loop of R27 track and was quite put off with the rattling cars that went along with it. Especially with the PE passenger cars with the glued on wiring! I would have bought more, but not with that defect. 

Ben

Brendan posted:

Thanks Ben.  That info saves me from investigating.  I'm glad it is not the locos.  I hadn't noticed it before with the equipment I run.  It is 4 pieces that seem to be a problem; got them about a year ago.  

Brendan

Good catch by Ben. I am familiar with this same issue. I bought my son a flyonel Legacy Texas Special PA and discovered this issue.  It's not a fun one. No simple solution. 

To assure yourself that this is the issue, you could hold the Geep in your hand and roll the non-powered truck over a piece of your R27 track.

Our train club met today and there were 5 of the GP7s there.  Loose screws were on four of them.  One was so loose on the powered truck that is was sparking.  Luckily no fried board. Once the screws were all tight no issues were there. To me the screw thing is simply a quality control problem that should have been caught by final inspection at the plant.  At least it is easily fixed when you get the engine.

No gear noises with any of the engines.  All thought they were loud and I had to explain that the manual was wrong about adjustment and I showed them how to do it.

I had to go into some detail about how the Gilbert trucks were always wrong sized to fit the PA truck motor size.  All thought the ones on these engines were too small.  On the way I took a picture of a GP7 that is still operation near me on the Fort Worth and Western RR.  It runs from FT. Worth to Brownwood TX.  Attached photo here.20171223_081309_001in 

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Hello, I removed the shell on my new North Pole Central. I was curious to see what was inside. What I found was that the flywheel was and did cut into a lead wire to the LED. No problem it was still working. The insulation was nicked and had showing wire. Applied a strip of rubber tape to the LED wires that are in the cab close to the flywheel.

had a LED problem with my new NP gp7. I did not take the shell off to see what may have killed the LED. I just packed it up and sent back to ChasRo for a refund. Waiting for the Reading GP7. Hope I won't have trouble with it.

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I got my Santa Fe GP7 and was able to give it a good testing this weekend.

I experienced many of the same issues others have:

First, my engine made a scraping sound going in both directions.  The cause of this was the wires to the front head light resting on top of the fly wheel.  Pressing these up into the roof of the short hood fixed that. 

Second was the grinding  noise made when going around curves. This was being caused by the fly wheel rubbing on the inside of the shell in the short hood.  I took my dremel to the shell on both sides to create a little more clearance. Noise is gone now. 

Lastly gear noise.  I have noticed a trend on the last few new Lionel locos I have gotten.  The worm gear is dry with no grease applied from the factory. I greased the gears and it improved the gear noise, but it is not completely gone. 

 

 

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banjoflyer posted:

There is a bright side to these problems. All the defective engines will probably  be sent back to Lionel where they most likely  will be dis-assembled and parted out for repairs of other engines in the future. I think that's how Lionel is able to stock parts...either from returned engines (not repaired) or new engines bought from China specifically to be dis-assembled to have parts on hand. That's my theory anyway!

Mark

I hope they don't really rely on their products being defective to get replacement parts!

Brendan

banjoflyer posted:
I think that's how Lionel is able to stock parts...either from returned engines (not repaired) or new engines bought from China specifically to be dis-assembled to have parts on hand. That's my theory anyway!

Mark

That's exactly how they do it. I've  watched techs disassemble new pieces and bag the individual parts.

Bob

Lionel has told me that they are not in the parts business anymore much.  Tearing down defective units is exactly how they repair other engines.  That is why units years old are not repairable except with aftermarket motors and E-units where available.

Today, I learned of another quality control problem with the Geeps from a dealer.  Boxes labeled for the UP engines have Santa Fe's inside.  To get buyers the right engine the wrong one has to be shipped back to the distributor who then has to send them to Lionel.  The guy at Lionel who has to deal with replacement is on vacation till mid January.  Buyers are dead in the water on getting their engine till then.  

I wonder if all the O Gauge people are suffering with quality control with new releases along with Flyer people? 

Roundhouse Bill posted:

 

Today, I learned of another quality control problem with the Geeps from a dealer.  Boxes labeled for the UP engines have Santa Fe's inside.  To get buyers the right engine the wrong one has to be shipped back to the distributor who then has to send them to Lionel.  The guy at Lionel who has to deal with replacement is on vacation till mid January.  Buyers are dead in the water on getting their engine till then.  

 

Could become problem if there aren't an equal amount of Santa Fe Geeps in UP boxes returned...

Rusty

I suspect there are two types of replacement parts.  Some are common to a variety of different Flychief and LC+ locomotives (motor, gears, wheels, electronics, operating couplers, smoke units) and probably are available from stock for replacement without requiring reuse of defective products.  Others (shells, external detail fittings) are probably only available when recycled from defective locos/rolling stock.  For units that cannot be easily repaired, salvaging materials is both sound business practice and environmentally laudable .

Returned mine 21 Dec. via Priority Mail, Charles Ro received 26 Dec.  Returning by FEDEX, sent 29th with a January 4th planned delivery.  Considering the holiday rush, that's not too bad.  Agree on turn-around likely being a new engine as replacement.  I do hope it was tested as mentioned above.  Happy New Year Everyone!

I received my replacement from Charles Ro and it is much better that the one it replaced. I would suggest checking ALL the screws. It still had some gear noise and I found that one of the screws that goes through the bottom of the truck to hold the motor in place was screwing into the truck and then the motor. I was able to correct that and thread both screws into the motor only to hold it in the correct position in the truck.  Now I can't hear the gears over the sound of the wheels on the track.

logcruiser posted:

I just spoke with Ro about the return of my UP. I was told they are opening, inspecting, and running the engines before shipping any more.

Does anyone have a good running UP? I may need to see if I can get a Santa Fe instead.

 

 

]

When my UP came it was in a big box. The loco was wrapped separately and was not in its own box. My assumption was that someone at Ro had tested it. So far, mine is running without issues.

I received my replacement UP GP7 and today I tested it.  All features were good until I tested the front coupler.  It would not open on command.  Looking through the front pilot I could see one wire broken off.  Under the hood, you can see there was not enough slack left in the coupler wires for following curves.  Too short. One wire does not reach and one is barely hanging onto the solenoid.  See the photo.  This does not look like an easy fix as I think the attachment point is under shrink wrap tape.  Anyone else have this problem?  Also it does not like S-Trax, derailing in a few track joints where the inside surface of the rails are not perfectly aligned.  Gauging or maybe rail is not tall enough (possible issues).  So it was fun to run and the bluetooth app is very nice!  But no working front coupler!  DARN.  Anyone fixed a coil coupler and have advice...or send it back yet again?

 

Last edited by Sgauger

Guys,

Many of you have known me for all the problems I have had with Lionel Flyer items.  I told myself (an others) that I would NEVER buy another.  Well, (as they say) never say never.  I was taken by the UP Geep paint job, and the fact that I always wanted a Gilbert one, but couldn't find one for a decent price.  So when the new ones were announced with their better looking trucks, and for such a great price, I bit the bullet.  Well, the bullet bit back. 

My Geep came in, and I tested it for loose trucks, screws, faulty paint and then put it on the track.  Powering up the remote (with new batteries) all seemed well!  I gave it a lube and it was a bit hesitant, but in a few laps, it smoothed out nicely.  Quieter too.  I fired up the Blue Tooth app, and it gave me more features!  Great!  The loco wouldn't pull more than 8 cars without spinning the wheels, but that's all I wanted to pull anyway.  I was even going to paint the pilot steps to match, and mixed up a batch of paint to do that when I ran the train around to a convenient spot to take the locomotive off the track.  The front headlight wasn't working.  Now, if it were the ElectroCouplers, I'd not even bat an eye since I don't plan on doing any switching with the thing anyway.  But a HEADLIGHT?  I suspect a cut or shorted out wire.  Am I going to attempt the repair?  No way.  The board is probably fried from an LED shorting out.  Someone else reported a cut wire due to the flywheel cutting into it.  It's going back!  Lionel strikes again!

 

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Jerry, it seems like you always have bad luck.  Too bad!!

I have run my UP for hours now and have not had an issue.  I am still very pleased with it.

Bill, it seems you always have good luck.  Good for you!

I have run Lionel Flyer things for minutes and always have issues.  I am sick of their junk.

If the dealer won't make good on this thing (and it shouldn't be up to the dealers to correct the defects in design/assembly) I'm sending it back anyway for spare parts.  That's all it's good for.  If any good parts can be found.  Keep the money.  Lesson learned.  I also purchased the add-on PE car.  I haven't even taken it out of the box yet.  It probably has broken wires, a cracked shell, wrong frame, broken side frames, broken coupler, or any combination of the above.  I guarantee it WILL have poorly gauged wheels.  As a consist for the UP Geep, I have a series (8) of previously issued Lionel Flyer UP freight cars.  All NIB.  EVERY ONE of them had a problem from poorly gauged wheels to side frames that crumbled upon removal from the box. 

I'll probably be moderated for this post, but I don't care any more.

 

I have the L-AF NKP GP7 and at this time its been on the layout for about 12 days. The GP7 is being used to pull a consist of 8 cars made up of all of those NKP freight rolling stock that Lionel made in the mid-90s. I've been operating on good ol' Gilbert track and switches. No issues. Not Legacy, but well-suited for its mission in life.

Bob

Last edited by Bob Bubeck
Sgauger posted:

Only the rear coil coupler on mine works, but it does not open far enough to release the rolling stock.  I have tried this with newer Flyer bocxcars, 1950's boxcars, and S-Helper cars.  They do not disconnect.  Perhaps with a heavier string of cars?

Sgauger

The electrocouplers on my NKP GP7 sample uncouple and couple dependably with the newest version of the L-AF knuckle coupler (e.g., the coupler fitted to the new cylindrical hoppers). My trials utilized a three car consist. However, on various other "Gilbert compatible couplers", your mileage may vary, as Sgauger is indicating. The length of the knuckle fitted on a coupler in question may have an effect (shorter = better).  Dave and the guys at the Circle L Ranch were likely using the newest version of the L-AF knuckle coupler in their product development; hence what I am observing.

Bob

Last edited by Bob Bubeck
banjoflyer posted:

I was able to push the shim between the washer and the chassis with a tweezers. The wobble was then gone. I know it's Rube Goldberg fix but it beats maybe ruining something else.

Mark

If it works, don't knock it!  Ingenious fix.  I haven't taken mine out of the box yet.  In keeping my expectations low, I'm rarely disappointed.

 

Well, I am packing up what I want to run at the big train show in Plano TX this weekend.  I selected the Flyonel UP streamlined passenger set with all the extra pieces, A-B-A and 9 cars.  I tested the PA and lubed the rest then let the train run.  

Then I took off the powered PA and put my new GP7 on the front.  That little engine with only one motor pulled it almost as well as the 2 motored PA.  Just a little strain at first and it was off.

I don't understand how some of you are having trouble with it pulling more that 8 freight cars. There must be a minor problem with the weak engines. I hope someone here can give a weak one another look and find a solution.

I had the opportunity to see a friend and fellow-club member's FC UP Geep in action this past weekend. Nice fit and finish.  His sounded and operated well too.  It was also my first experience with the LChief app (controlling the engine on his iPhone).  Two features of that which I was not aware of and quite impressed by (i.e. wish Legacy included) were the ability to adjust the top speed the engine can reach (great when handing the phone or FC controller over to perhaps a less experienced or more thrill-seeking operator), and the ability to adjust the pitch of the horn and the bell.  Pretty cool.  I don't think either function is available on the FC remote control, but the setting stays with the engine until changed/reset even after you turn it or your phone off.  Could yet put me over the top to make my first FC purchase, but a Legacy Berk is a calling too...  

poniaj posted:

I also emailed my dealer with no response.  A phone call is in order.  I've been assured by another S guy who I respect greatly that the dealer will make good.  Now to find the time to call, and become the squeaky wheel.

 

Well, I got the the engine back from the dealer in record time.  He told me that I could send it to Lionel or his place.  However, he had a 4-6 week back-up of repairs.  Since the paperwork was hard to find, I sent it to him.  It was less than a week, plus shipping time (and procrastination on my part).  The light works fine.  A note said it was a burned out LED.  Now, how many LEDs ever go bad?  In the many years I've been working on trains, I've never had one go out.  But he replaced it, and re-routed the wires so the flywheel won't contact a wire again.  LEDs aren't covered on warranty, so he charged me for the LED.  Less than $3, and didn't charge labor.  Very fair.  In the very remote possibility that I will ever buy any more Lionel Flyer products, it will be from him.   I'll still have to find a place to add weight to the unit since it isn't a very good puller.  I've noticed that other have had this same problem with the newest Geeps.  I have some older ones that can pull tree stumps, but this one has problems in that department.  By the way, I'm mixing up a batch of paint to match the UP grey so I can paint the pilots like Union Pacific did.  I'll post photos when done.

I have two new GP'S. The other day I hooked up 16 cars to one of the new GP. Pulled the cars without any problem on spinning wheels or unable to pull the cars. I was able to pull the train fast or slow and very very slow. No problem with both GP's. Now, I also have an older UP made about 10years ago? It's the lionel style with a vertical motor with a flywheel and the spur gears on the side the the truck frame. This loco could not pull the 15 cars with out spinning its wheels and moving the cars down the track. Now to see why this loco cannot pull the 15 cars.

While my UP Geep won't pull (comfortably) seven cars up a grade, I haven't tried any on a level surface.  But I removed the shell to determine where any weight can be put.  Here's what it looks like inside:

There is a bit of room between the motor and the circuit board:

I'm going to get some lead stick-on weights from the auto parts store tomorrow and see if it makes any difference.

Interesting that the dummy truck looks like it can be motorized with the proper gears and can motor.  I bet if there were two motors, this thing could pull tree stumps.  It doesn't seem to weigh any less than previous Geeps, but with the weight distributed on two trucks, more is needed on the driven one :

While I was perusing the insides, I noticed that the circuit board had a couple empty sockets.  I wonder what they're for?

More tomorrow.

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We seem to have two threads going on that are very similar, but here's my "solution" to my UP Geep's poor performance.  I went to the auto part store to find those stick-on weights.  They had them but they're no longer made of lead (Pb).  Are they afraid we're going to eat them or something?   Oh well.  They're still heavy and have adhesive on them (they're iron, BTW).   The ones I got are in .25 oz. increments.  I added a total of 1.5 oz. and it made a difference.  I tested it on  my layout, and it pulled my 7 cars up the grade with no wheel slipping.  On level track, I'm sure more can be pulled.  I also cleaned the track and wheels, but they were fairly clean to begin with.  So here's my weights in place. 

They had to be staggered like this to clear the shell.  It was a tight fit, but they fit nicely (notice the pencil marks on the deck).  I couldn't add any weights in the front of the motor due to the wires for the electro-coupler.  By the way, in the process, I broke a wire leading to the coupler, but was able to re-solder it in place after carefully removing the Mylar tape surrounding the coil.  I know, I know.  I voided the warranty, but at this point, it doesn't matter any more.  In the process, I also mixed up a batch of Testor's Model Master grey paint to try to match the UP grey so I can paint the pilots.  They aren't a perfect match, but they're look better than black.  If I find a better match, I'll repaint them, but for now, it's fine.  I've tried matching Lionel colors in the past, and they're difficult to match, but I used to use Floquil paints.  They're no longer available, so I use whatever I can find, but NO KINDERGARTEN WATER BASED FINGER PAINTS! 

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Last edited by poniaj

What I do not understand is why there is such a large variance in pulling power experienced by the owners of these engines. As I commented in the other thread my new UP pulled 14 Gilbert freight cars up a 2% grade around a 180 degree curve, no signs of slippage. When I get some free time I will see how many cars it will pull up a 2.4% grade before slipping or stalling.

The test results are in. 20 car freight, 2% grade, 180 degree curve. The UP was able to strart the train on this grade, slight wheelspin while accelerating, none at steady speed. I was surprised how much force it took me to pull the train by hand, indicates I need to lube the wheelsets! This engine is a great puller. 

Here is a picture of the test area.

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katy409 posted:

AmFlyer - that’s what I am looking for !   I do not understand the difference of pulling power!   That much motor difference?      

Dave Olsen - on the next run of the GP7 - any chance of having two motors and adding some weight ?      

It isn't that you motor is any different to others, if the wheels are slipping it has the power but just can't lay it down to the track.

Could it be that one of the wheels is not touching the track and causing a problem, clutching at straws now.

banjoflyer posted;

 Jerry, I agree that adding weight by the motor will help. With the space shown it looks like you could secure  tall slender pill bottles on both sides of the motor...front and rear. Then you could add lead pellets or BB's and add the cap. Maybe that way you can add precise amounts of weight by varying the amount of pellets.

Mark

There's no room in front of the motor due to the wires leading to the electro coupler and the light holder in front of the shell.

 

  The weights I added can be augmented by more if needed.  I'll try to add more cars on a grade for my own benefit to see what this thing can do.  I have no doubt that on level track it can do much better.  (I still like the grey pilots. )

 

 

jonnyspeed posted:

Question for Dave:

Is there any chance we could see a more scale/detailed version of this geep in the future? Sorta like what you did with the Berk? Or not because the Berk was designed with that in mind? Just curious as this model doesn't cut it for a lot of people. It looks too toy-like.

Thanks.

Can't rule it out. It would be a challenging one to fit Legacy in. We have lots of fun things planned already, but this is a good idea. Appreciate the suggestion.

Dave Olson posted:
katy409 posted:

Dave Olsen - on the next run of the GP7 - any chance of having two motors and adding some weight ?      

Can't add a second motor but looking into adding weights near the motor.

Which begs the musical question:  Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo?  Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.

 

Rusty

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Last edited by Rusty Traque
Rusty Traque posted:

Which begs the musical question:  Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo?  Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.

 

Not a typo. Much wider shell. Plus the out-pour of requests for two motors in the GP made me design the switcher to have two. Just can't do it in the GP.

Dave Olson posted:
Rusty Traque posted:

Which begs the musical question:  Will the new Baldwin switchers have two motors or is it a typo?  Seems odd the smaller Baldwin's could fit two motors but not the GP's.

 

Not a typo. Much wider shell. Plus the out-pour of requests for two motors in the GP made me design the switcher to have two. Just can't do it in the GP.

Thanks, Dave.  Just curious.

Rusty

Got mine back from warranty repair service after 5 weeks.  Paper in the box says it was fixed and tested, however, it makes the same loud gear grinding noises in both directions. In fact it is so bad in reverse that it grinds to a halt. I guess I'll have to pay another $20 to ship it back.  That means I will have paid an extra 20% on top of the purchase price to get a loco that works.

HI All,

 

Finally had a chance to spend some time with my SF Geep.  I'm rather disappointed in the pulling power.  Tried a mix of PW Flyer and S helper cars and it couldn't start a train of 9 cars (Flyerchief Berk and Legacy Y-3 had no trouble).  Would just spin the drive wheels.  Any advice on taking the shell off?  I'd like to add some weight and see what happens.  

Thanks,

Tim

Yes the problem most likely is the pickup rollers. Not the springs but the travel Of the post not having enought room to travel up all the way. I had to bend the  lead wire down on another loco with same roller set up. I have two f/c diesels that do not have a wheel slip problem and can pull 12 to 15 cars without any slippage.also check the the condition of the traction tires. They may be dirty, oily, or loose on the wheel.

Good point Milan.  The condition and functioning of those vertical lift small diameter pick-up rollers must be A-1 in every way - full vertical travel being a key parameter to check.  Had similar issues/needs with those on 6-48075 NH EP5.  Not the greatest design, but if your trackwork is nearly perfect and everything about every pic-up is too then they'll work pretty well.  Don't let one get hot - the square post travels up and down inside a plastic housing. 

Hi all, My first post on OGR -- Have had an AF 335 steamer since my grandfather gave it to me in 1952. For some reason, when I pulled it out of the attic this Christmas for the first time since 15 years ago, I can't put it away. So am going all in now building a 5 x 9' layout in my garage and I want to inaugurate it when I'm done, first with my steam engine, but also with a new Flyer Chief Union Pacific GP7. I'm hoping Lionel's second run of these will be released before my birthday next month (late April).

I'm also hoping that Dave Olson's efforts to solve the loose traction issue can be implemented by Lionel in the second run (Dave was talking about maybe adding some weight in the cab, and I hope he also sees these latest posts). I can hardly wait to get my hands on this engine.  Have any of you heard anything yet about when to expect them to be available again?

I love this forum,

Ken 

Last edited by CaseyKen
ARNOLD A KLOIAN posted:

FOR ARTISTIC SENSE, i would paint the geep's sideframes gray to overcome the gaudy silver look as produced...the Berkeley specialist, Arnold k..

The UP started painting trucks silver in 1955, so Lionel got it right for all practical purposes. 

EMD GP7 UP 118

It'd look better if the model's pilots were painted gray like they were supposed to be (and like Jerry did at the top of this page.)

EMD GP7 UP 125

Rusty

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  • EMD GP7 UP 118
  • EMD GP7 UP 125

Thanks for the feedback...Yes, I knew about U.P. and their silver trucks, its just that the comparison of the long age

Gilbert diesels with the long wheel bases, in what I thought was gray seemed more complimentary to the rest of the colors ; gray and yellow.  but, it could be the photos, or the flash that is highlighting it too much....And as pointed out about the fidelity of the trucks to that of the prototype, I wonder what set off the designers at (lionel) or associated modelers, to not make the truck more narrow looking...And a hello and thank you again to Jerry Poniatowski for his fellowship when I was in Michigan,,,  

ARNOLD A KLOIAN posted:

Thanks for the feedback...Yes, I knew about U.P. and their silver trucks, its just that the comparison of the long age

Gilbert diesels with the long wheel bases, in what I thought was gray seemed more complimentary to the rest of the colors ; gray and yellow.  but, it could be the photos, or the flash that is highlighting it too much....And as pointed out about the fidelity of the trucks to that of the prototype, I wonder what set off the designers at (lionel) or associated modelers, to not make the truck more narrow looking...And a hello and thank you again to Jerry Poniatowski for his fellowship when I was in Michigan,,,  

Granted, the new trucks are less than perfect visually because Lionel's reusing the Baldwin switcher (which is also too short for the truck it's supposed to represent) truck as a basis. 

However, after the initial shock, I find the new trucks better looking than the "oversized gym shoe" Gilbert truck.  Combined with the new fuel tank molding and new pilots the overall look of the GP7 is vastly improved while still maintaining the "traditional" guise.

FC GP 06FC GP 04

Now, if Lionel could only improve on the handrails a little bit...

Rusty

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  • FC GP 06
  • FC GP 04
ARNOLD A KLOIAN posted:

Thanks for the feedback...Yes, I knew about U.P. and their silver trucks, its just that the comparison of the long age

Gilbert diesels with the long wheel bases, in what I thought was gray seemed more complimentary to the rest of the colors ; gray and yellow.  but, it could be the photos, or the flash that is highlighting it too much....And as pointed out about the fidelity of the trucks to that of the prototype, I wonder what set off the designers at (lionel) or associated modelers, to not make the truck more narrow looking...<snip>

Gray-painted trucks would appear less undersized than silver-painted trucks. I kinda like the old handrails, because they give the piece a more Gilbert-like 'look' that is in keeping with this GP-7's 'mission'. Given the price, my NKP sample continues to please.

Bob

Last edited by Bob Bubeck

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