S Gauge Survey Final Version

Autoracks, SD40-2, 30"+ curves

1) Rolling Stock (Freight/Passenger)

2

2) Engine

4

3) Accessories/Track

1

Rolling Stock (Freight/Passenger Cars)

    1. 66’ Center Beam Car

Engine

    4. SD40-2

Accessories/Track

    3. Curved Turnouts

 

Craig

Rolling Stock (Freight/Passenger Cars)

     2. 50’ Boxcars

Engines

      4. SD40-2 

Accessories/Track

1. 30+ inch Radius Fastrack Curves

 

Brendan

Engine Sd40-2

30 radius curves

50' boxcars 

Rolling Stock (Freight/Passenger Cars)

1. Modern Tank Cars

 Engine

1. SD40-2

 Accessories/Track

1. Accessories with Sounds

#1. don't care (not my era)

#2. Legacy J3a Hudson

#3. Accessories with Sounds

Rolling stock: 66' centerbeam flat

Engine: 44 tonner (battery powered  

Accessories: 30+ inch curves

Center beam car

GS4 daylight

curved turnouts

 

1) Rolling Stock (Freight/Passenger) / Trinity 5161 Hoppers

2) Engines / SD40-2 / SD45

3) Accessories/Track / larger radius track / 36" radius / Passenger Station / Freight Warehouse

Rolling Stock (Freight/Passenger Cars)

1. Modern Tank Cars

 Engine

1. SD40-2

50' box car

SD 40-2

Curved Turnout

Roger Zuerlein

 

With all due respect,  I would buy NONE of the choices.

I hope you guys get what you want, I'm not interested.

LittleTommy

Only thing I'd want is plus 30 curves

#4, #3 & #2. 

My picks

Rolling stock, #1  66' center beam   (american models already has passenger cars with detailed interior)

Engines, #5 SP Daylight GS4

Accessories/Track, #2 Accessories with sound  (might have voted for one of the track options, but MTH/SHS track is just so much better. FasTrack in both O and S is just too noisy.)

Rolling Stock: Center Beam Car

Engine:  GE 44 Tonner (with conventional AC power available) 

Accessories/Track: 30+ Inch Radius Curve Track

Thanks!

Alan

Rolling Stock (Freight/Passenger Cars) - #4
Engines - #1
Accessories/Track - #2

Dean

Engines: #3 if it's Dreyfuss streamlined

Rolling Stock - #4

Engines - #1

Accessories/Track - #1

John

A detailed Legacy 0-8-0 

I have added this survey to the American Flyer Facebook page.

The following are the results as of May 21st 2017

Rolling Stock (Freight/Passenger Cars)
1.     66’ Center Beam Car	28.57%
2.     50’ Boxcars	14.29%
3.     89’ Autoracks	28.57%
4.     Detailed interior Scale Passenger Cars with LED lights	19.05%
5.     Modern Tank Cars	9.52%

 

Engines
1.     GE 44 Tonner	18.18%
2.     Legacy Berkshire	0.00%
3.     Legacy J3a Hudson	13.64%
4.     SD40-2	40.91%
5.     Southern Pacific Daylight GS4	18.18%
6.     Thomas the Tank Engine	9.09%

 

Accessories/Track
1.     30+ inch Radius Fastrack Curves	47.62%
2.     Accessories with Sounds	28.57%
3.     Curved Turnouts	9.52%
4.     RR Crossing Fastrack	14.29%

 

Some interesting patterns are emerging.  In The Rolling Stock Passenger category it appears pretty spread out with the Center beam and 89' Autoracks taking the lead.  As for engines it not that close with a clear desire for an SD40-2 with the GS4 and the 44 Toner in second place.  As for the accessories the 30+ radius curve tracks have a large lead followed by the Accessories with sounds.  Surprising is that no one has voted for the Legacy Berkshire.

Rocco

 

Lionel has made no secret that a detailed, Legacy Berk will be out eventually. Maybe that's why no one voted for it. It's almost a given.

What happened to my Legacy 0-8-0?

Carl,

 

The choices were limited to the 5 engines in the first post.

Oh..

 

Too Bad Lots of people would like the 0-8-0

 

My post even got a "Like"

Carl Tuveson posted:

What happened to my Legacy 0-8-0?

Sorry Carl but it did not get enough votes to make the top grouping.  The problem with AF Flyer is that people want so many different things that it makes it difficult for a vendor to invest in tooling that will please everyone.  By limiting to the top choices it shows a higher percentage of interest as opposed to having 20 or 30 items listed that getting 10% of the votes would make it the leader.  As a vendor I would not invest in tooling for something that showed a 10% interest but would invest in something that showed a 40 to 50% interest.

 

Rocco

Quick Casey posted:

Lionel has made no secret that a detailed, Legacy Berk will be out eventually. Maybe that's why no one voted for it. It's almost a given.

Correct. I voted three times for a Legacy Berk elsewhere. 

Bob

In future polls, we should revisit the 0-8-0. More specifically, the U.S.R.A. 0-8-0. It was what the old Gilbert 0-8-0 was modeled after.

It could be offered in so many road names, as the lost U.S.R.A. 4-6-2, and 2-8-2 tooling could have been. 

Lionel could either offer it as a freshened A. C. Gilbert variant, as the current Northern is. But if they tool up for something on the level the 2-8-2, and 4-6-2 were, it would appeal to a broader audience. With full details and Legacy, or cheapened detailing with FlyerCheif. It would be nice if the detailing were modular, so they could offer an upgrade package in their parts department in case a FlyerCheif model came out in your favorite roadname you could still get the full level of detailing Lionel is capable of. Most likely this package would be valve-gear, and other small parts.

Quick Casey posted:

Lionel has made no secret that a detailed, Legacy Berk will be out eventually. Maybe that's why no one voted for it. It's almost a given.

Haha. Want to bet?

18 replies to this forum. Not exactly a mandate in the overall S gauge hobby.

 

Rich

richabr posted:

18 replies to this forum. Not exactly a mandate in the overall S gauge hobby.

 

Rich

Rocco has also is collected data from the American Flyer Facebook page.  However, the percentages do not indicate the number of respondents, which is also important when running a survey.

I've stayed out of this because I figure the 2018 Flyer catalog is probably pretty much already determined.  If not written in stone, at least in hard clay. 

Plus, I've backed off buying Flyer and Hirail to concentrate on Scale.  I don't anticipate Flyer will have anything I'd be particularly interested in for the near future.  From what little I've seen of the woodside reefer, it looks to be a lower-res copy of the SHS/MTH reefer (for 5 bucks more MSRP than MTH...,) of which I have plenty of already.

If something good comes from this survey, great.  Hopefully there will be something for the Flyer folks to enjoy, but I don't anticipate anything Earth-shattering in the 2018 Flyer catalog.

Rusty

Nor in the long overdue MTH catalog, whenever that arrives.

 

Rich

I appreciate the effort that went into conducting the survey, and the results make perfect sense for widest appeal. I'm hoping Ron Bashista gets a notion to use the SD60s he made as a basis for an SD40-2. If he does announce such a model, it will be available within 3 months, unlike the company that announced the mechanical reefer and then accidentally let customers know at the time of promised delivery that they never bothered to do anything. It required new tooling! That costs money.

If you want to invest in new tooling, you want to be sure to get the money back. Now a billboard reefer made sense to Crown Models, SHS/MTH, and S Scale America, so with thousands on the market, it made perfect sense to that company to make one, too. However, this one would be better: just one set of high-rail wheels to avoid confusing customers; fewer details to get broken off; "low-resolution" (a great term, Rusty) ladders that are less likely to get caught on sweaters; and a higher price to convince collectors that this toy is an investment.

Maybe Thomas the Tank engine might actually catch someone's attention in North Carolina. Build it with scale wheels that set a new standard in alignment. (Standards are wonderful. Everyone should have his own.) Add in Legacy II with new features such as crew talk in different accents, including British. (Requires new Cab-3 and Legacy base.)  The kids will love it, if they can wait until April for their Christmas presents.

I know I have been away due to some health issues and work issues but I finally have updated the survey with User Group input I received.  These results include all input I received through 9-8-17.  Not everyone voted in each of the categories.  The following are the results.

Rolling Stock (Freight/Passenger Cars)
1.     66’ Center Beam Car	27.16%
2.     50’ Boxcars	18.52%
3.     89’ Autoracks	24.69%
4.     Detailed interior Scale Passenger Cars with LED lights	22.22%
5.     Modern Tank Cars	7.41%

 

Engines
1.     GE 44 Tonner	18.75%
2.     Legacy Berkshire	3.13%
3.     Legacy J3a Hudson	11.46%
4.     SD40-2	38.54%
5.     Southern Pacific Daylight GS4	21.88%
6.     Thomas the Tank Engine	6.25%

 

Accessories/Track
1.     30+ inch Radius Fastrack Curves	40.96%
2.     Accessories with Sounds	36.14%
3.     Curved Turnouts	7.23%
4.     RR Crossing Fastrack	15.66%

 

While I don't agree with all of the leading votes they should give Lionel/MTH/American models some ideas where they may focus their efforts.  I have also been told that the timing of this was very poor and that the best time to do this was in a fall when more people are focused on the hobby.  I can't disagree with that logic but I was trying to get this information out sooner to impact 2018 offerings, thus the earlier date.

--Rocco--

 

Hi Rocco,

Your efforts are appreciated, but I have some questions regarding the validity of the survey:

1)  how were the engines and other items selected?

2) how many participated in the survey?  As stated above a small response from overall S Gaugers would produce a very skewed result. 

I am concerned as the final conclusion does not represent anything I would be interested in, or most of those in our S Club (approximately 30 members)

I hate to see the tail wag the dog.

Francine

When I interviewed Lionel at York they were considering an SD40 and still a Legacy Berk.  My feeling is that they will never do a Daylight GS4 because of tooling costs.  The new MTH catalog should be here soon and any locomotives will be remakes of S Helper.

A sample size of 18 is too small anyway to draw any meaningful conclusions. 

I would welcome just about any Legacy engine. I just want to see something smaller. Lionel could do a fantastic job on a GP7/9, GP20, GP30, GP40, etc... on the diesel side. On the Steam side if they are really going to make a Legacy Berkshire I suggest that they make a painted/unlettered version as well. I'm with Karl on the 0-8-0. That would be nice.

The first company to give me a detailed scale small/medium steamer with sound and smoke will get an order for 4 from me. I'm tired of waiting...

Of course, the real question from my perspective is: Has Lionel totally abandoned the scale side of S in favor of more "traditional style" Flyer like what's coming in FlyerChief? 

Don't get me wrong, the F/C GP appears to be a vast improvement, visually and operationally even with its compromises.  I think it will be a hit.  And folks seem to be happy with the FlyerChief Berks.

As long as the SSA SD45 seems to have fallen into a black hole, I would throw my hat in for an SD40 (or SD40-2) of similar quality to the SD70's and ES44's as long as scale wheels and Kadee conversion hardware were available.  A Legacy Berk would be of little interest to me without scale conversion available.

Rusty

banjoflyer posted:

Rocco, thanks for all your efforts on this project. I do know that Dave Olson of Lionel reads this forum and he is very helpful on S gauge questions at times. Perhaps he'll forward your results to the product development group.

I'd really like to see that center beam flatcar. That's what I voted for and they are seen daily in RR yards near me. A FlyerChief  SD40  (MKT) wouldn't be too shabby either!

Mark

 

Mark,

Although I was a big fan of scale autoracks, I would equally like the Centerbeam car.  If tooled properly I could see several alternative cars coming from that tooling making this a cost effective addition to the American Flyer line for Lionel.

 

--Rocco--

Francine posted:

Hi Rocco,

Your efforts are appreciated, but I have some questions regarding the validity of the survey:

1)  how were the engines and other items selected?

2) how many participated in the survey?  As stated above a small response from overall S Gaugers would produce a very skewed result. 

I am concerned as the final conclusion does not represent anything I would be interested in, or most of those in our S Club (approximately 30 members)

I hate to see the tail wag the dog.

Francine

The items listed were based on open responses on this forum regarding what they would like to see made in the future to 3 categories, Cars, Engines and Accessories.  I then took the top items in each group (I tried to limit it to 5 but there were some ties) and used those items in the survey.  This was all documented here in an earlier thread.

As for the number of people responding...I have been told by some that is not relevant.  I have opened this up to clubs to send me their results and If you can gather your clubs results and send them to me I will update the totals.

--Rocco--

Roundhouse Bill posted:

When I interviewed Lionel at York they were considering an SD40 and still a Legacy Berk.  My feeling is that they will never do a Daylight GS4 because of tooling costs.  The new MTH catalog should be here soon and any locomotives will be remakes of S Helper.

A sample size of 18 is too small anyway to draw any meaningful conclusions. 

Bill,

MTH will get me to buy their S product when they make something new not just reissued tooling.  I am ready to give them my money but they don't seem to want it.  They should try at least one new item and then look at sales compared to the SHS reissues.

The response size both this year and last were over 3 digits not 18 as you have said.  I am looking for trends of interest that is why I asked this forum, other internet sites and clubs to respond to give it a diverse set of potential customers.

Is this perfect no.  But until Lionel, MTH, American Models etc. try to reach a broader customer base I figured I would try to do something to at least give those companies an idea as to what they should consider. 

I would strongly encourage a company like Lionel to list what they are considering and then ask us what we would buy if they made the product.  We are a passionate group of dedicated customers who are more than happy to let them know what we want.

--Rocco--

It is interesting that they have tooled up to produce complicated articulated engines yet consider that something as relatively simple as an SP Daylight is "too expensive to do."

NYC J3a Hudson - as long as it is the Henry Dreyfuss streamlined 20th Century version.  I don't care which year in terms of paint scheme - just detailed nicely and with scale proportions, fan driven smoke, authentic whistle, and a bell.  You pick the operating system.  I'd even venture into FC at this point to (finally) have one of these done that way or even just conventional AC/DC if it helps with market reach and affordability.  If Legacy or DCC, then load it up - drive wheel illumination and control, smoking whistle, addressable working marker lights, New York accent crew talk, etc.  That's my vote - and hope.