banjoflyer posted:

Now the EP-5's are interesting. I have none of those type engines from any maker new or old. I am partial to the Great Northern paint scheme. The new catalog offers a GN EP5 #8305. I don't believe any such engines ever existed. The GN rostered electric engines but I couldn't find any in the EP5 type. None of that really matters to me. The new engine looks great, I have no electric engines, it is dual motored so it should be a good puller, I have a bunch of GN cars from many makers so there you go...I should need/want this.

It carries a price of $329.99. Street price could be around $270.00-$275.00. (18% off-online vendor). I can do that. Add in the FlyerChief and Bluetooth operations and I'm in.

The only railroad that had EP-5 locos was New Haven. For years, toy train companies have painted EP-5 locos in Milwaukee road colors and called them Little Joes, but that is a completely different loco.

RoyBoy

Roy - I agree with you - the "artistic license" taken by Lionel (and others?) to put anything other than New Haven paint* on an EP-5 has always been a bemused pet peeve of mine.  A few years ago we visited the National Toy Train museum near Strasburg, PA and while wandering through their Flyer collection, I saw that they had an EP-5 (correctly painted...) but labeled as a "Little Joe".  I pointed this out to the museum staff - who I'm sure thought "oh great, another foamer who doesn't know beans", but they were very polite and said they'd look into it.  We continued our tour through the museum and about 20 min later, one of the staff folks came up to me and said that indeed I was right, it is indeed an EP-5 and that they would change the label forthwith... (which they did).

The funny thing about the actual Little Joe's (termed EF-4 and EP-4) is that only Milwaukee Road and Chicago South Shore and South Bend (South Shore) purchased them from GE after GE couldn't deliver them to the Soviet Union (hence the name 'Little Joe [Stalin]') (well, five were purchased by a Brazilian RR).  So Great Northern never even owned Little Joe's.  They did have two electric locomotives that had characteristics similar to the LJ - namely streamlining and double ended.  The W-1 had a larger tractive effort than the LJ - 119,000 lb(f) vs ~75,000.  The W-1 was B-D+D-B while the LJ was 2-D+D-2.  GN also rebuilt a wrecked Y-1 class loco as a streamlined carbody and classified it as Y-1a. 

The Northeast rails website http://www.northeast.railfan.net/electric1.html has pictures of all(?) the Milwaukee Rd and GN electrics.

*after the New Haven bankruptcy, 8 of the 10 EP-5s originally built went to the Penn Central and all of those locos did wind up in PC livery (e.g., here:  https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=2408).  Apparently 6 of the original EP-5's (which PC relabeled as E40) survived into the Conrail era, but I've never seen a picture of an EP-5/E40 repainted in Conrail colors.  I think by that time all of them were essentially in a deadline in Harrisburg, PA and Conrail never saw fit to resurrect any of them.

richs09 posted:

Roy - I agree with you - the "artistic license" taken by Lionel (and others?) to put anything other than New Haven paint* on an EP-5 has always been a bemused pet peeve of mine. 

This has gone on for years with Lionel, MTH & them all.   Many people don't care about this & apparently enjoy seeing something different bearing the name of their favorite railroad.  The examples of fantasy schemes across all of model railroading are too numerous to mention.   As people often say here... don't like it, don't buy it.   It also helps sales figures at the companies that produce the model trains we like to buy.

RoyBoy posted:

The only railroad that had EP-5 locos was New Haven. For years, toy train companies have painted EP-5 locos in Milwaukee road colors and called them Little Joes, but that is a completely different loco.

Glibert never offered the EP-5 in anything but New Haven.  Even then Gilbert just cataloged it as "The New Haven GE Electric Locomotive."

Lionel got creative with their O Gauge model in the late 50's, offering it in New Haven, Milwaukee, Pennsy and Great Northern.  Lionel continued the "tradition of fantasy paint" under MPC and when they released the Flyer version.  MTH and K-Line followed suite with their models.

I actually don't mind the fantasy paint jobs, most of them were well executed and Lionel wasn't applying them to roads that didn't have electrification of some sort.  I'd like to see one in Chicago, South Shore and South Bend.

The EP-5's were to originally be painted in New Haven's traditional green and yellow-gold.  McGinnis wanted something bolder and hired Herbert Matter, a Swiss artist and graphic designer to come up with an alternative.  The result was the red/white/black "McGinnis" paint scheme we've come to know and love.

Here's one for the books.  The loser in the "McGinnis paint-off:"

GE EP5 NH 372 Yellow

The yellow was offered as an alternative.  The 372 was repainted Red/Yellow/Black before departing GE.

Roy - I agree with you - the "artistic license" taken by Lionel (and others?) to put anything other than New Haven paint* on an EP-5 has always been a bemused pet peeve of mine.  A few years ago we visited the National Toy Train museum near Strasburg, PA and while wandering through their Flyer collection, I saw that they had an EP-5 (correctly painted...) but labeled as a "Little Joe".  I pointed this out to the museum staff - who I'm sure thought "oh great, another foamer who doesn't know beans", but they were very polite and said they'd look into it.  We continued our tour through the museum and about 20 min later, one of the staff folks came up to me and said that indeed I was right, it is indeed an EP-5 and that they would change the label forthwith... (which they did).

*after the New Haven bankruptcy, 8 of the 10 EP-5s originally built went to the Penn Central and all of those locos did wind up in PC livery (e.g., here:  https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=2408).  Apparently 6 of the original EP-5's (which PC relabeled as E40) survived into the Conrail era, but I've never seen a picture of an EP-5/E40 repainted in Conrail colors.  I think by that time all of them were essentially in a deadline in Harrisburg, PA and Conrail never saw fit to resurrect any of them.

It was indeed Lione/MPC that branded the EP-5 as a "Little Joe" with their first re-release of their O Gauge locomotive in 1976 with Pennsy and Milwaukee Road versions. 

The New Haven referred to the EP-5's first as "Screaming Mary's" then as "Jets" due to the sound the blowers made.

Not all EP-5's were repainted black, some went to Valhalla in worn out McGinnis garb.  4971, 4973 and 4977 survived until 1977 as freight locomotive and had one pantograph removed.

The EP-5 is a fascinating locomotive.  It's a shame that none were saved.

Rusty

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If you needed more clearance, you could limit the extension with some fishing line fed through the rivet holes and going around the rod at the top.  One thing I never liked about the pantographs is the "floppy" contact.  Will definitely be ordering the GN unit.

IMG_5695

Brendan

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The U36 has more features listed than the U33. The two I see added are (1) the Current speed, fuel level dialog and refueling sound effects, (2) Track IR sensor for use with sensor track. These items are not listed in the U33 features. For me the IR sensor is important since I have three S gauge sensor tracks on my layout. In addition to the U33 I already have on order I plan to buy a U36, a Legacy Berk and the Vesuvius Crucible sound effects box car.

Tom

The features description for the U36 matches the features in the ES44 and the SD70, not the U33. I listed the differences I saw. My current U33's do not have the speed and fuel level dialog like the ES44 and SD70 nor the IR sensors. If the older U33's have the fuel filling sound effect it is not listed in the features and I have not figured out how to activate it with a Cab2.

Tom

Update On 2019 Legacy Berkshires Charles RO 

This morning by phone I was able to place an order for the 2019 Legacy Berkshire Nickel Plate scheduled for delivery in March.  I also ordered the 2019 NH Passenger Observation Car scheduled for delivery next fall.  The pricing was excellent, as is the service.  

Hoping these items are manufactured and delivered as scheduled.  I did note late last evening on the Lionel website for some of the new catalog items certain limited  reduced pricing.  Also in a few instances items noted as sold out if I read this correctly.  Just an fyi.  

I am excited about these items.  

Mike West

Mark,

I was on the lionel.store.com website, and selected American flyer.  Selected items follow, which on the web are listed as new 2019. 

Mike

 

Guilford American Flyer LEGACY U33C #654
SKU:1921052
MSRP: $599.99
<form class="cart-quickaddtocart" data-action="add-to-cart">
 
S Gaugeicon

Sold Out 

Guilford American Flyer LEGACY U33C #650
SKU:1921051
MSRP: $599.99
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S Gaugeicon

Sold Out

Delaware & Hudson American Flyer LEGACY U33C #753
SKU:1921042
MSRP: $599.99
 
S Gaugeicon

Sold Out

 

Mark,

In looking tonight on the lionel.store.com, the several discounted prices posted last evening are not there.  Possibly these were changed, as they were very attractive.  Maybe I was dreaming, but I checked twice and don't think so. 

I ordered this morning the 2019 Legacy Berkshire Nickle Plate from Charles RO at $499, and am very eager and hopeful to receive next spring.  Their billing practices and service for me has been outstanding over the years.  

Best,

Mike

I think Rusty Traque was right about the U33Cs that were "new" for 2019. I suspect that the listing as "sold out" or now missing probably means that there were not enough orders to justify production. Lionel may have figured that they would call them U36Cs and paint them in different schemes instead of having them sit in inventory. That's why they are "on the boat" now and soon available while most other products from 2019 Volume 2 won't be here until spring.

I ordered the American Railroads Berkshire today from Charles Ro. ($499.99) I also ordered the Frisco Sound Car. (94.95)  I looked up the engine, which is a Nickle Plate locomotive.  It was repainted in 1969 to pull a consist of repainted blue passenger cars to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Go;den Spike.  It was called the Golden Spike Centennial Limited.  I wish someone like American Models would paint cars to match like they did the Frisco Meteor.

A lot of guys in our club are wondering why they are producing heavy weights for two railroads Lionel hasn't produced engines for.  Makes you wonder?  But, I just bought the New Haven Legacy PA set and I am going to call Lionel to see if the colors on the cars will match that engine. Also, Gilbert made the #290 series of Pacific engines that would pull these nicely. 

 

  

Roundhouse Bill posted:

 

A lot of guys in our club are wondering why they are producing heavy weights for two railroads Lionel hasn't produced engines for.  Makes you wonder?  But, I just bought the New Haven Legacy PA set and I am going to call Lionel to see if the colors on the cars will match that engine. Also, Gilbert made the #290 series of Pacific engines that would pull these nicely. 

 

  

Um... Lionel's cataloging the New Haven EP-5 and Great Northern fantasy version in the new catalog.  Plus, Lionel's offered EP-5's in New Haven and Great Northern before.  The new GN EP-5 reflects the GN's W-1 electric locomotive paint job.

LTI 6-48008 EP5 NHLTI 6-48038 EP5 GN

As the New Haven cars are offered in McGinnis black and red, they won't match by color the NH Green and Gold PA's.

Image result for new haven passenger car

McGinnis took the reigns of the New Haven via a proxy fight in 1954, the last steam run for the New Haven was April 27, 1952.

Rusty

 

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Bill,

Thanks guys, I appreciate your follow up on the Great Northern engines.  I just didn't remember them.  Thanks too on the color of the New Haven heavyweights.  That saved me $65 a car.

They would be a match for the 494/495 Gilbert Alcos. If you check the NH historical sites you may find that this color scheme of heavyweights were probably pulled at one time with the green/gold pinstripe motive power until all were repainted into the red/black or McGinnes schemes.

Rich

Roundhouse Bill posted:

I ordered the American Railroads Berkshire today from Charles Ro. ($499.99). I looked up the engine, which is a Nickle Plate locomotive.  It was repainted in 1969 to pull a consist of repainted blue passenger cars to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Golden Spike.  It was called the Golden Spike Centennial Limited.  I wish someone like American Models would paint cars to match like they did the Frisco Meteor.

I ordered one too. They look fantastic in the rendering. Not sure what I am going to pull with it, but can't wait to get it nevertheless.

richabr posted:

Bill,

Thanks guys, I appreciate your follow up on the Great Northern engines.  I just didn't remember them.  Thanks too on the color of the New Haven heavyweights.  That saved me $65 a car.

They would be a match for the 494/495 Gilbert Alcos. If you check the NH historical sites you may find that this color scheme of heavyweights were probably pulled at one time with the green/gold pinstripe motive power until all were repainted into the red/black or McGinnes schemes.

Rich

Not all New Haven PA's were repainted in the McGinnis scheme.  Several went off to the scrapper still in green and gold.

Rusty

Well, for what it's worth I placed a pre-order for Legacy Berks (again). Hopefully they make it to production this time around. 

Hopefully Lionel announces an SD40-2 next year. I need a pair of these:

1104.1097612640

-Jonathan

 

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