Well the hysteria is in full swing on the O gauge side as to the new Lionel 2019 Vol. 2 catalog.
Mark
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If they are Legacy Berks, Will the C&O have the lower headlight? It seems the number is a PM Berk, that was absorbed into the C&O, which never got the headlight moved.
Then I'll be trying my hand again at a Legacy Berk. I sure hope they get built this time.
Well, they are the same numbers as the cancelled Berks.........A copy of the catalog would state Legacy control.
Rich
Any SD70ACe's or ES44AC's in the new catalog?
Mark,
I've asked the question on the catalog thread.
Rich
banjoflyer posted:Well I hope I'm not stepping on any Lionel toes here but this image is from the 2018 Big Book catalog where they originally offered the Legacy Berkshires which were then cancelled:
So if Lionel is going to re-offer these engines at a new $100.00 higher price I'd bet they haven't changed anything from what the proposed 2018 offerings were. Is the headlight on the engine shown what you want?
Mark
No, I was hoping they'd do the lower headlight version they did CAD drawing for 
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Just picked up a copy from Mario's Trains. The Berkshires are listed as Legacy. Yay! Same description as the previous catalog.
The diesels are listed as U36C's, also a Seaboard version.
EP5's as listed, look nice. The NYC scheme fits well.
GN heavyweights, 8 of them all sold separately, $89.99 list.
NH heavyweights, the same.
New 40ft boxcars - State of Maine, TP&W, Nashville & Chattanooga, Frisco, Vesuvius Crucible, Buffalo Creek, GN teal, Lancaster & Chester, Green Bay & Western, Rutland.
New 3 bay hoppers - B&O, Chessie, UP, Western Maryland.
New Milk flats - 4 bordens, white load W/black letters, Red letters, orange load W/gold letters, khaki load W/ gold letters. Florida juice, Sealtest, Renkens, Polar Express.
Rich
banjoflyer posted:
Berks retail $599.99:
Nickle Plate #765
Please tell me that’s not how it’s spelled in the catalog.
I am pretty impressed with this catalog over all for both O and S gauge...
Some enlightenment...
Ben
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banjoflyer posted:
So at worst you will be able to see these new offerings in about 2 weeks or so.
Mark
Mark,
NOTINWI just posted all of the S scale pages. But if you're in STL in the next two weeks, Schaefer's Hobby Shop (on Gravois near 270) has the catalogs out already. I picked up a copy today.
Mike
Mike,
To be honest, I don’t know if what I posted is ALL the S gauge pages or not. I had to go through a lot to get them, but that’s a different story.
I am happy to see the EP5 show up. I’m not in for any of the livery’s cataloged, but I really hope Lionel does the EP5 in polar express colors to look similar to the O gauge Bi-polar express. I think it looks really sharp.
Ben
NotInWI posted:Mike,
To be honest, I don’t know if what I posted is ALL the S gauge pages or not.
You posted it all. I'm looking at it now: pages 106-117.
Do the EP-5's have twin motors, or single motor?
RoyBoy posted:Do the EP-5's have twin motors, or single motor?
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Excellent.
I am pumped that we may get two new Legacy locos manufactured if both the Berks and the U36c's get enough orders. I'll do my part and get one of each as soon as Charles Ro starts taking orders.
I'll be building a GN set for sure.
Brendan
So the question remains, will the Legacy Berks be produced as described by Dave Olson in this thread
banjoflyer posted:My squinting eyes read $129.99?Mark
Yes, $129.99
Mark,
The sound cars are not steam or whistle sounds. They are "real railroad train sounds". Probably wheel screeching, etc. It is suggested that one be placed every 5/6 cars to simulate a variety of real train sounds. Could get expensive! 
Rich
richabr posted:Mark,
The sound cars are not steam or whistle sounds. They are "real railroad train sounds". Probably wheel screeching, etc. It is suggested that one be placed every 5/6 cars to simulate a variety of real train sounds. Could get expensive!
Rich
No kidding...
$600 for an engine: $130 for a boxcar. Thank goodness this stuff is made in China; otherwise things might get REAL expensive! 
If there is hope about bringing in "new blood" into this hobby, then who ever it is better have DEEP pockets.
Mark in Oregon
FlyerRich posted:So the question remains, will the Legacy Berks be produced as described by Dave Olson in this thread
Yes.
Chuck K posted:I am pumped that we may get two new Legacy locos manufactured if both the Berks and the U36c's get enough orders. I'll do my part and get one of each as soon as Charles Ro starts taking orders.
U33 and U36 (last catalog and this catalog) have already been made and are on the water. The U36 in this catalog was forecast in limited quantities.
The sound cars are not steam or whistle sounds. They are "real railroad train sounds". Probably wheel screeching, etc. It is suggested that one be placed every 5/6 cars to simulate a variety of real train sounds.
They will use the same sound set as our new O Gauge FreightSounds cars. We did a completely new sound set for the cars this year. Less bangs, more realistic sounds.
Dave O,
Thanks for the additional info. Will the new railroad sound cars work with traditional analog/curved/sinusoidal wave form AC as well as with chopped? I was disappointed to discover (post-purchase) that AF steam and diesel sound box cars only work with chopped. Unfortunately just prior to buying them I had moved from TPC400's (chopped AC) back to 30B's (curved), so both of those sound cars are now instead just heavily weighted more expensive than usual box cars.
Dave
Sgaugian posted:Dave O,
Thanks for the additional info. Will the new railroad sound cars work with traditional analog/curved/sinusoidal wave form AC as well as with chopped? I was disappointed to discover (post-purchase) that AF steam and diesel sound box cars only work with chopped. Unfortunately just prior to buying them I had moved from TPC400's (chopped AC) back to 30B's (curved), so both of those sound cars are now instead just heavily weighted more expensive than usual box cars.
Dave
Also, will they operate on 50Hz in the UK?
Sgaugian posted:Will the new railroad sound cars work with traditional analog/curved/sinusoidal wave form AC as well as with chopped?
Yes, and they will work on DC power as well.
Ukaflyer posted:Also, will they operate on 50Hz in the UK?
Yes.
I'd like the TP&W car but without sounds. Any body want to buy a sound car frame? 
Brendan
I might be interested. Send me an e-mail with a price
Strummer posted$600 for an engine
If there is hope about bringing in "new blood" into this hobby, then who ever it is better have DEEP pockets.
Mark in Oregon
Mark, I have to disagree about $600 being expensive for a high end steam engine. This will be the least expensive premium steamer I have purchased.
banjoflyer posted:I was already to buy the RF&P Legacy Berkshire from the 2018 catalog. Had all the $$ allocated and made my order. After the cancellation my stash of $$ dwindled as I saw other "must-haves!" so it remains to be seen if I can cobble another $500.00 together. I might try to sell a few engines at the S-Fest this year to get some more dough.
Mark
What is the S-Fest, and where and when will the S-Fest happen this year?
Arnold (Long time O Gauge Operator, who has a few nice Postwar S Gauge locomotives and cars, 3 boxes of Postwar track and switches, the big AF Postwar transformer with the dual dead man's throttles, and who will soon build a small AF layout in a spare room).
Happy to see the Legacy Berks back. No mention of Kadee coupler capability as was previously discussed. Have to see on that. I was hoping for scale sized passenger cars with detailed interiors. These fall way short for me.
Sgaugian posted:Will the new railroad sound cars work with traditional analog/curved/sinusoidal wave form AC as well as with chopped?
Dave O: Yes, and they will work on DC power as well.
Dave O,
Can I send in my steam and diesel sound box cars to get them retrofitted so they will as well? Thanks.
Dave
Dave O: I have been wondering if there is really any difference between the shells engine shells of the U33 and the U36? Will you be able to tell them apart?
Thanks
I see the engine numbers are different. From the description the U36 also has some added Legacy features. I plan to order one of the U36's even though I already have an order in for a U33. I am also going to re-order a Legacy Berkshire. If only there was a Legacy Hudson to order...
jonnyspeed posted:Happy to see the Legacy Berks back. No mention of Kadee coupler capability as was previously discussed. Have to see on that. I was hoping for scale sized passenger cars with detailed interiors. These fall way short for me.
Yes, Berks include scale coupler mounting ability. Dave says above that they will be produced as described in his thread from last year in which he stated that this feature is included.
As for S scale passenger cars, Lionel has made no mention in the posts and announcements of the last couple of years about plans to produce S scale rolling stock other than the new upgraded cylindrical hoppers. I think venturing into that space would be a big gamble for them. American Models remains the only readily available option for passenger cars. Older SHS and various brass models are out there, but take a bit of hunting.
Chuck, GGD/3rdRail is making a run of detailed 80' S scale passenger cars in a selection of roadnames. I placed an order for a set of six NYC cars when they were announced back in September.
AmFlyer posted:Chuck, GGD/3rdRail is making a run of detailed 80' S scale passenger cars in a selection of roadnames. I placed an order for a set of six NYC cars when they were announced back in September.
Would love to hear from Scott what the status is on these. I wonder if he is close to his minimum requirements?
After the initial email from them confirming my order I have not received any updates, so I am assuming the plans were not cancelled so far.
banjoflyer posted:This year the event is hosted by the St. Louis, Mo area club AFSGSLA (my club).
I had AFSGSLA but a topical cream took care of it. I have CASG now.
Brendan
Thank you. Mark and Brendan, for the info about S Fest. Arnold
banjoflyer posted:Now the EP-5's are interesting. I have none of those type engines from any maker new or old. I am partial to the Great Northern paint scheme. The new catalog offers a GN EP5 #8305. I don't believe any such engines ever existed. The GN rostered electric engines but I couldn't find any in the EP5 type. None of that really matters to me. The new engine looks great, I have no electric engines, it is dual motored so it should be a good puller, I have a bunch of GN cars from many makers so there you go...I should need/want this.
It carries a price of $329.99. Street price could be around $270.00-$275.00. (18% off-online vendor). I can do that. Add in the FlyerChief and Bluetooth operations and I'm in.
The only railroad that had EP-5 locos was New Haven. For years, toy train companies have painted EP-5 locos in Milwaukee road colors and called them Little Joes, but that is a completely different loco.
Roy - I agree with you - the "artistic license" taken by Lionel (and others?) to put anything other than New Haven paint* on an EP-5 has always been a bemused pet peeve of mine. A few years ago we visited the National Toy Train museum near Strasburg, PA and while wandering through their Flyer collection, I saw that they had an EP-5 (correctly painted...) but labeled as a "Little Joe". I pointed this out to the museum staff - who I'm sure thought "oh great, another foamer who doesn't know beans", but they were very polite and said they'd look into it. We continued our tour through the museum and about 20 min later, one of the staff folks came up to me and said that indeed I was right, it is indeed an EP-5 and that they would change the label forthwith... (which they did).
The funny thing about the actual Little Joe's (termed EF-4 and EP-4) is that only Milwaukee Road and Chicago South Shore and South Bend (South Shore) purchased them from GE after GE couldn't deliver them to the Soviet Union (hence the name 'Little Joe [Stalin]') (well, five were purchased by a Brazilian RR). So Great Northern never even owned Little Joe's. They did have two electric locomotives that had characteristics similar to the LJ - namely streamlining and double ended. The W-1 had a larger tractive effort than the LJ - 119,000 lb(f) vs ~75,000. The W-1 was B-D+D-B while the LJ was 2-D+D-2. GN also rebuilt a wrecked Y-1 class loco as a streamlined carbody and classified it as Y-1a.
The Northeast rails website http://www.northeast.railfan.net/electric1.html has pictures of all(?) the Milwaukee Rd and GN electrics.
*after the New Haven bankruptcy, 8 of the 10 EP-5s originally built went to the Penn Central and all of those locos did wind up in PC livery (e.g., here: https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=2408). Apparently 6 of the original EP-5's (which PC relabeled as E40) survived into the Conrail era, but I've never seen a picture of an EP-5/E40 repainted in Conrail colors. I think by that time all of them were essentially in a deadline in Harrisburg, PA and Conrail never saw fit to resurrect any of them.
richs09 posted:Roy - I agree with you - the "artistic license" taken by Lionel (and others?) to put anything other than New Haven paint* on an EP-5 has always been a bemused pet peeve of mine.
This has gone on for years with Lionel, MTH & them all. Many people don't care about this & apparently enjoy seeing something different bearing the name of their favorite railroad. The examples of fantasy schemes across all of model railroading are too numerous to mention. As people often say here... don't like it, don't buy it. It also helps sales figures at the companies that produce the model trains we like to buy.
RoyBoy posted:The only railroad that had EP-5 locos was New Haven. For years, toy train companies have painted EP-5 locos in Milwaukee road colors and called them Little Joes, but that is a completely different loco.
Glibert never offered the EP-5 in anything but New Haven. Even then Gilbert just cataloged it as "The New Haven GE Electric Locomotive."
Lionel got creative with their O Gauge model in the late 50's, offering it in New Haven, Milwaukee, Pennsy and Great Northern. Lionel continued the "tradition of fantasy paint" under MPC and when they released the Flyer version. MTH and K-Line followed suite with their models.
I actually don't mind the fantasy paint jobs, most of them were well executed and Lionel wasn't applying them to roads that didn't have electrification of some sort. I'd like to see one in Chicago, South Shore and South Bend.
The EP-5's were to originally be painted in New Haven's traditional green and yellow-gold. McGinnis wanted something bolder and hired Herbert Matter, a Swiss artist and graphic designer to come up with an alternative. The result was the red/white/black "McGinnis" paint scheme we've come to know and love.
Here's one for the books. The loser in the "McGinnis paint-off:"
The yellow was offered as an alternative. The 372 was repainted Red/Yellow/Black before departing GE.
Roy - I agree with you - the "artistic license" taken by Lionel (and others?) to put anything other than New Haven paint* on an EP-5 has always been a bemused pet peeve of mine. A few years ago we visited the National Toy Train museum near Strasburg, PA and while wandering through their Flyer collection, I saw that they had an EP-5 (correctly painted...) but labeled as a "Little Joe". I pointed this out to the museum staff - who I'm sure thought "oh great, another foamer who doesn't know beans", but they were very polite and said they'd look into it. We continued our tour through the museum and about 20 min later, one of the staff folks came up to me and said that indeed I was right, it is indeed an EP-5 and that they would change the label forthwith... (which they did).
*after the New Haven bankruptcy, 8 of the 10 EP-5s originally built went to the Penn Central and all of those locos did wind up in PC livery (e.g., here: https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=2408). Apparently 6 of the original EP-5's (which PC relabeled as E40) survived into the Conrail era, but I've never seen a picture of an EP-5/E40 repainted in Conrail colors. I think by that time all of them were essentially in a deadline in Harrisburg, PA and Conrail never saw fit to resurrect any of them.
It was indeed Lione/MPC that branded the EP-5 as a "Little Joe" with their first re-release of their O Gauge locomotive in 1976 with Pennsy and Milwaukee Road versions.
The New Haven referred to the EP-5's first as "Screaming Mary's" then as "Jets" due to the sound the blowers made.
Not all EP-5's were repainted black, some went to Valhalla in worn out McGinnis garb. 4971, 4973 and 4977 survived until 1977 as freight locomotive and had one pantograph removed.
The EP-5 is a fascinating locomotive. It's a shame that none were saved.
Rusty
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I'll be preordering a Berkshire. I'm sure my father will as well. And I'll probably pick up a rail sounds car at some point also.
If you needed more clearance, you could limit the extension with some fishing line fed through the rivet holes and going around the rod at the top. One thing I never liked about the pantographs is the "floppy" contact. Will definitely be ordering the GN unit.
Brendan
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The U36 has more features listed than the U33. The two I see added are (1) the Current speed, fuel level dialog and refueling sound effects, (2) Track IR sensor for use with sensor track. These items are not listed in the U33 features. For me the IR sensor is important since I have three S gauge sensor tracks on my layout. In addition to the U33 I already have on order I plan to buy a U36, a Legacy Berk and the Vesuvius Crucible sound effects box car.
I plan to buy a Legacy Berkshire engine, two sound box cars and possibly the NH passenger cars. They all look great to me. Mike West
The features description for the U36 matches the features in the ES44 and the SD70, not the U33. I listed the differences I saw. My current U33's do not have the speed and fuel level dialog like the ES44 and SD70 nor the IR sensors. If the older U33's have the fuel filling sound effect it is not listed in the features and I have not figured out how to activate it with a Cab2.
When Charles Ro posts his price I will call and order a Legacy Berkshire. That is all I am interested in now. Maybe a sound car later.
Check the GN cars. The diner and the sleeper appear to be the same shells, just the window inserts are different. I think we can assume the NH Pullman will be the same as the NH diner with different window inserts.
Update On 2019 Legacy Berkshires Charles RO
This morning by phone I was able to place an order for the 2019 Legacy Berkshire Nickel Plate scheduled for delivery in March. I also ordered the 2019 NH Passenger Observation Car scheduled for delivery next fall. The pricing was excellent, as is the service.
Hoping these items are manufactured and delivered as scheduled. I did note late last evening on the Lionel website for some of the new catalog items certain limited reduced pricing. Also in a few instances items noted as sold out if I read this correctly. Just an fyi.
I am excited about these items.
Mike West
Mark,
I was on the lionel.store.com website, and selected American flyer. Selected items follow, which on the web are listed as new 2019.
Mike
Guilford American Flyer LEGACY U33C #654
SKU:1921052
MSRP: $599.99
<form class="cart-quickaddtocart" data-action="add-to-cart">
S Gauge
Mark,
In looking tonight on the lionel.store.com, the several discounted prices posted last evening are not there. Possibly these were changed, as they were very attractive. Maybe I was dreaming, but I checked twice and don't think so. 
I ordered this morning the 2019 Legacy Berkshire Nickle Plate from Charles RO at $499, and am very eager and hopeful to receive next spring. Their billing practices and service for me has been outstanding over the years.
Best,
Mike
I think Rusty Traque was right about the U33Cs that were "new" for 2019. I suspect that the listing as "sold out" or now missing probably means that there were not enough orders to justify production. Lionel may have figured that they would call them U36Cs and paint them in different schemes instead of having them sit in inventory. That's why they are "on the boat" now and soon available while most other products from 2019 Volume 2 won't be here until spring.
Thoughtful and helpful information. Thank you. Mike West
Ordered a RF&P Berkshire. Cannot wait to see it this Spring.
Ordered a C&O Berk. Hope the headlight is where it's supposed to be. Also sprung for a sounds boxcar.
I plan on soon ordering a sound boxcar also (possibly 2), they look interesting. Also, one positive with the delivery dates as proposed is it spreads the purchases over months for me. Makes things easier in several ways. Mike
I ordered the American Railroads Berkshire today from Charles Ro. ($499.99) I also ordered the Frisco Sound Car. (94.95) I looked up the engine, which is a Nickle Plate locomotive. It was repainted in 1969 to pull a consist of repainted blue passenger cars to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Go;den Spike. It was called the Golden Spike Centennial Limited. I wish someone like American Models would paint cars to match like they did the Frisco Meteor.
A lot of guys in our club are wondering why they are producing heavy weights for two railroads Lionel hasn't produced engines for. Makes you wonder? But, I just bought the New Haven Legacy PA set and I am going to call Lionel to see if the colors on the cars will match that engine. Also, Gilbert made the #290 series of Pacific engines that would pull these nicely.
Roundhouse Bill posted:
A lot of guys in our club are wondering why they are producing heavy weights for two railroads Lionel hasn't produced engines for. Makes you wonder? But, I just bought the New Haven Legacy PA set and I am going to call Lionel to see if the colors on the cars will match that engine. Also, Gilbert made the #290 series of Pacific engines that would pull these nicely.
Um... Lionel's cataloging the New Haven EP-5 and Great Northern fantasy version in the new catalog. Plus, Lionel's offered EP-5's in New Haven and Great Northern before. The new GN EP-5 reflects the GN's W-1 electric locomotive paint job.
As the New Haven cars are offered in McGinnis black and red, they won't match by color the NH Green and Gold PA's.
McGinnis took the reigns of the New Haven via a proxy fight in 1954, the last steam run for the New Haven was April 27, 1952.
Rusty
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Don't forget this.
I believe there is also a U33C in the gold and black scheme.
Rich
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There is, I have that U33c.
Thanks guys, I appreciate your follow up on the Great Northern engines. I just didn't remember them. Thanks too on the color of the New Haven heavyweights. That saved me $65 a car.
For anyone interested here is the NP U33c.
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Bill,
Thanks guys, I appreciate your follow up on the Great Northern engines. I just didn't remember them. Thanks too on the color of the New Haven heavyweights. That saved me $65 a car.
They would be a match for the 494/495 Gilbert Alcos. If you check the NH historical sites you may find that this color scheme of heavyweights were probably pulled at one time with the green/gold pinstripe motive power until all were repainted into the red/black or McGinnes schemes.
Rich
Roundhouse Bill posted:I ordered the American Railroads Berkshire today from Charles Ro. ($499.99). I looked up the engine, which is a Nickle Plate locomotive. It was repainted in 1969 to pull a consist of repainted blue passenger cars to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Golden Spike. It was called the Golden Spike Centennial Limited. I wish someone like American Models would paint cars to match like they did the Frisco Meteor.
I ordered one too. They look fantastic in the rendering. Not sure what I am going to pull with it, but can't wait to get it nevertheless.
richabr posted:Bill,
Thanks guys, I appreciate your follow up on the Great Northern engines. I just didn't remember them. Thanks too on the color of the New Haven heavyweights. That saved me $65 a car.
They would be a match for the 494/495 Gilbert Alcos. If you check the NH historical sites you may find that this color scheme of heavyweights were probably pulled at one time with the green/gold pinstripe motive power until all were repainted into the red/black or McGinnes schemes.
Rich
Not all New Haven PA's were repainted in the McGinnis scheme. Several went off to the scrapper still in green and gold.
Rusty
Tom, The U33 you show is like the one I have. Look again it is a Northern Pacific engine not Great Northern. The two railroads were merged and formed the Burlington Northern in 1970. Two other railroads merged with them. The CB&Q and SP&S.
Correct Bill. I said it was a Northern Pacific in my post.
Well, for what it's worth I placed a pre-order for Legacy Berks (again). Hopefully they make it to production this time around.
Hopefully Lionel announces an SD40-2 next year. I need a pair of these:
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"Hopefully Lionel announces an SD40-2 next year"
One of the universe's mysteries.
Brendan
That’s beyond a mystery, that’s an affront to the natural order of the train universe.
I mean, I bought the U33s, I would have bought the U36s....but a SD40-2...
Take. My. Money.
Common’man!
Ben
I bought a U33 and a U36 and a Legacy Berk and a new sound boxcar. Hopefully if enough of us buy enough items Lionel will be encouraged to bring new engines to market.
AmFlyer posted:I bought a U33 and a U36 and a Legacy Berk and a new sound boxcar. Hopefully if enough of us buy enough items Lionel will be encouraged to bring new engines to market.
Nah - they'll just make more U boats!
Brendan
