Sad tale - model trains versus video games

You can't build a layout for somebody else, you have to build it for yourself. If your kids or grandkids enjoy the trains than so be it. If not at least you have a layout for yourself and your like minded friends. Not one kid in my family ever liked the trains or cared about them. But I still do and I'm having fun. 

Dave

I guess I am fortunate thus far.  My grandson lives with me permanently.   At age 7, his two favorite things are going into the train room and going down to the real train tracks and watching real trains. 

A sign of the times?  Hard question to answer.  How many senior citizens remember the Good Old Days (?) of their youth when families began to purchase TV sets in the 50s?  My mother signed me up to win a Westinghouse B&W job at the A. Harris Dept. store in Dallas.  Wow, what a surprise when this Texan, in 1951 I was not any taller than a Texas grasshopper (!) won the set.  I lived with my grandparents on their token piece of land north of Big D in the (then) little country town of Farmers Branch.  Lucky (?) for me, no neighborhood kids, thus I had the TV all to myself during the afternoon weekdays when Kate Smith and Howdy Doody aired, and the Saturday AM kids shows.

I didn't stay glued to the set though, always finding time to operate my Lionel Lines O27 trains with a recording of station and trains sounds playing on my record player.  Just think...SOUND...in 1951 no less...LOL  Though not a railfan, my grandfather would still take me down by the Katy RR tracks when the northbound freight roared through our little village around 8:30 PM still in steam no less!  It made a train nut out of me at an early age to say the least.

Many model railroaders who maintain indoor layouts have also started to invest in outdoor garden railways.  It appears that they are able to bring families together as well as neighbors who bring their offspring with them when invited to see the trains run through well maintained backyards.  As a result, much of today's younger generation have developed an interest in trains who had previously spent hours playing games indoors on their computer.

Now that Kalmbach has announced that they are pulling in Garden Railways magazine it will be interesting to see what will be the result of their Big Blunder?  Other countries have magazines devoted to outdoor model railroading, including the UK, but the North American market has lost theirs unless another publisher such as White River will possibly come to the rescue to fill the void by introducing a magazine of their own, that will continue to provide the latest news and tips for Green Thumb garden railway modelers?

Item: On the GR website, there are many former subscribers who have complained to Kalmbach, with several having cancelled the other railroad related magazine subscriptions out of protest.  The fact that when the founder of GR left the magazine it started to decline in content to the point it was reduced from six issues per calendar year to just four.  To make matters worse, the number of pages were also grossly reduced per issue as well, leading to additional subscriber cancellations. 

Now I don't see O Gauge Railroading entering the garden railway market with a new publication, but with many outdoor O gauge railways found in gardens and flowerbeds in the UK alone, perhaps future issues of OGR will start to feature trains that operate outside in fair weather from time to time? 

I'd like to see some feedback from the OGR staff and readers as well on this subject.

73

Joseph Toth Jr.

All of my grandkids loved the electric trains unttil about 7 or 8 years of age then they graduated to all the video gizmos. But now I have a Great Grandson with another on the way that will get to run the trains for at least a few years.  My youngest Grand Daughter, Adeline is 4 years old,  still loves the trains and is an expert with DCS control.

I’ve not been blessed with grandkids yet but; I have three adult sons, each of whom had trains when they were kids. Of the three, only my youngest kept his interest in the hobby and still maintains his own layout.

I think Dave’s comment above is spot on! You build a layout for yourself and enjoy the trains because YOU are interested in them. If, by chance, you can share your interest with grandkids or adult children - so much the better.

Curt

Bill T.  Indeed, a great way to prepare the younger generation in our ever changing hightech world today is to "train" them how to use DSC control and other fancy computer devises required to operate a semi-automatic layout, e.i.  like programing cars in a hump yard for example.

Hope you guys will consider taking out a OGR subscription and becoming a Supporting Member.  I don't intend this to be a plug for OGR but for me it has been the best investment made in 2020.  Purchasing both together is still less than the cost of a full tank of gas today.  Obtaining access to 50 years worth of OGR magazines itself is fantastic.  My only regret: I waited much too long to finally sign up!

Joseph Toth Jr.

I just became a grandfather this year.  Sad to say right now he is my only hope.  My adult kids have zero interest in the trains.  I'm not sure I really blame them.  There is so much other stuff to occupy their time.  The grandson, 7 mos., has been down to the train room and does light up when he sees the trains.  I'm guessing I'll have to enjoy this while I can because I suspect around 8 or 9 I'll lose him too.

The first place I took my grandson when he came home was the train room. Winter he was three, he was running DCS. By 5, trains and baseball. I knew time was limited, and other interests would come, as they should. At 11, trains were occasional interest, but still there. He’s quite concerned with what will happen to his trains, now that MTH is closing, And said I guess as the MTH wear Out, we’ll have to check out more Lionel.🤷‍♂️ But video games have become number one interest. We’re breaking down the layout, and he has “drawn” plans for another. Christmas list still has C&O coaches, and an Aero train set on it. 
I’ll enjoy our time when we have it, and keep his trains in good shape until he’s ready for them again, or it’s time to sell.

The time we’ve had with trains has been irreplaceable. Too bad York was cancelled the last two shows, it was out twice yearly time together for me to learn all he could tell me about the new products. Our bonding over trains, was almost as good as the times on the field playing ball.

Trains and grand kids. Gods gift to us!

Part of getting kids interested in trains is educating them about the actual purpose of real trains.  Give a child a locomotive, few cars and an oval of track and they will get bored very quickly.  If the purpose of the cars is explained to them, what they carry, where they came from, where they are going, etc. it allows their minds to become engaged.  Taking trips to see real trains in action is always a big advantage.  If the kids understand the purpose of the various cars and how railroads operate they will want to emulate it on their own layout.

Give a child a locomotive, few cars, an oval of track and educate them, they will soon want to add some switches and buildings to their basic oval.  After that the sky is the limit!

Tom

@david1 posted:

You can't build a layout for somebody else, you have to build it for yourself. If your kids or grandkids enjoy the trains than so be it. If not at least you have a layout for yourself and your like minded friends. Not one kid in my family ever liked the trains or cared about them. But I still do and I'm having fun. 

Dave

I absolutely agree with this, Dave. You can lead a horse to water, etc.

Joshua Cohen Lionel had a brilliant idea when he promoted the father/son relationship throughout the Lionel catalogs to sell trains. It was an opportunity for the child to be a little bit like an adult and for the adult to relive aspects of their own childhood.

That concept has been lost today. Starter sets may still make up the majority of Lionel's profits, but those sales come from nostalgia: Remember how much you enjoyed Lionel trains as a kid.

Yes, there's a lot more competition today for family discretionary dollars. And there's also the breakdown of the traditional family unit. Then there's the reality that too many parents aren't seeking ways to engage with their kids: They're looking for electronic babysitters so they can do their own thing. Or because they work too much, trying to pay for all the things they think they need, and don't have the time to use.

All this combined with the fact that trains today are obviously being marketed to adults, with a lot less emphasis on "toy" and a lot more emphasis on prototypical realism and expensive features.

Then there's one more factor: Collectability, ie: Money. I've been back in the hobby for some 32 years. I can't count how many times I've heard that I shouldn't be repainting trains as they are all valuable collectibles worth tons of money. Yet, NOT ONE single person who said that to me, was willing to give me $500.00 for an MPC-era 8 inch yellow UP flat car, which according to their logic, was highly collectible. So much for the foolhardy argument that these trains are all priceless collectibles. And happily, I'm still repainting.

I've told this story before. I knew a kid who was always bugging me to buy him video games. I told him "I take you to the arcade, and you play video games at your friends, so you get enough of that. I'll buy you a train set instead."

His reaction was "That's old fashioned." I told him "I'm not getting it for me. I'm getting it for you. And I'm not going to just hand it to you... you're going to build it and I'll show you." All of a sudden, I could see he was thinking...

"You mean I would get to use power tools?" was his reaction to that. "Sure. Your mother isn't going to show you." So he did a 180 and got totally into it. He did everything, and I helped him. Too often, adults in attempting to "teach" kids, end up doing it all for them. You gotta let kids be kids and make mistakes and learn from them. 

I let the kid design the track plan, and as we were finishing it, he said "You know, this isn't complicated enough." I was thrilled. He was thinking it through. And learning as we went along. We then redid the layout and made it more complex, utilizing his ideas with my guidance.

So I profoundly disagree with the above sentiment that you build a layout for yourself and hope the kids get into it. You build a layout with, and for the kids... it's THEIR layout. IF, they don't get into, now you have a layout. But if they think it's your layout instead of their layout, chances are real good that they won't get into it.

And you have to let them play with it. Kids who hear statements like "Careful, that's really expensive" or "Don't touch that" or "That's not prototypical operation... you don't run trains like that" are NOT going to develop any interest in the hobby. Now, I'm not advocating carelessness or not taking care of what was always an expensive toy. But when I was a kid, the trains were mine, bought for me by my dad. They WEREN"T for my dad, who then sometimes allowed me to play with them, as long as I did it correctly. Had that been the case, I never would have gotten into trains.

-----------------------------

Final thought: Many folks here can find fault with nearly everything Lionel does. Now, there are times when that is justified. But in my thinking, the biggest mistake Lionel has made in recent years, is the dropping of the "Ready-To-Run" catalogs in favor of the "Big Book" approach. Before the Ready-To-Run catalogs - and I personally heard this many times - the reaction of novices and young parents to the catalog was "These aren't toys for kids. These are for doctors and lawyers."

I'd then have to point out the pages in the catalog where the starter products were. And those starter products were there. BUT first impressions are important. And I guess Lionel hasn't learned that lesson, because the catalogs start off with all the high-end expensive built-to-order stuff, followed way in the back by the trains that are going to keep them in business for the long-term. The starter products should always be right up front on the first pages in the catalog. The adults who are looking for high end products will persevere, turn the pages and find what they are looking for. 

My own kids were not interested in my Christmas layout. One of my grandsons, at age 1, went bonkers over it. That got me building a year 'round layout. He was my "train buddy", and we went to nearby Strasburg every mild weather month. Stayed overnight at the Red Caboose motel about 6 times. Choo-Choo Barn and PRR Museum many times. Then at age 7...poof! He was into baseball 100%. Now he is 16, and on the school football team.

I'm into the shooting sports. The only one that showed the slightest interest was my "quiet" daughter.

I'm into archery. The only one interested was my "ballerina" grand daughter.

What effect has Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends had on the younger generation insofar as getting them interested in the hobby?  How many OGR members have Thomas trains which has helped introduce the World's Greatest Hobby to their children and grandkids today? 

Jim M Sr.  Trains and Grand Kids are indeed God's Greatest Gift to mankind!  WOW, I got a mess of goosebumps when I read your post.  Thanks!

73

Joseph Toth Jr.

Godspeed

Please Pray for World Peace

We owe it to our children and their children's children

What is sad, to me, in this story is not the grandkids' choices, but their grandfather's. He collects a basement full of precious, no-touch-me trains, then builds perfect layouts. Of course his grandchildren are bored--grandpa has already had all the fun!

The reason kids like video games is because video games are interactive, and put the child in control. Yet, so many people try to get kids into trains by doing the opposite: "Look, everything is done for you; you just sit here and watch them go." People forget that children are not old. They are not world-weary. They do not have all these worries and anxieties that they need to melt away by watching the train just go in circles. They want something to happen, and they want to be in control of it. This hobby gives them that in spades, if the grown-ups will just give up the reins and let it happen. IMHO, everything Brianel wrote in his post is spot-on.

@Bill T posted:

All of my grandkids loved the electric trains unttil about 7 or 8 years of age then they graduated to all the video gizmos. But now I have a Great Grandson with another on the way that will get to run the trains for at least a few years.  My youngest Grand Daughter, Adeline is 4 years old,  still loves the trains and is an expert with DCS control.

 

Why is that OGR members have the cutest grand kids (and kids) on the planet?

My only grand daughter (still cute) is all grown up now. They grow up too fast.

Andre

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

 

Now that Kalmbach has announced that they are pulling in Garden Railways magazine it will be interesting to see what will be the result of their Big Blunder?  Other countries have magazines devoted to outdoor model railroading, including the UK, but the North American market has lost theirs unless another publisher such as White River will possibly come to the rescue to fill the void by introducing a magazine of their own, that will continue to provide the latest news and tips for Green Thumb garden railway modelers?

Item: On the GR website, there are many former subscribers who have complained to Kalmbach, with several having cancelled the other railroad related magazine subscriptions out of protest.  The fact that when the founder of GR left the magazine it started to decline in content to the point it was reduced from six issues per calendar year to just four.  To make matters worse, the number of pages were also grossly reduced per issue as well, leading to additional subscriber cancellations. 

Now I don't see O Gauge Railroading entering the garden railway market with a new publication, but with many outdoor O gauge railways found in gardens and flowerbeds in the UK alone, perhaps future issues of OGR will start to feature trains that operate outside in fair weather from time to time? 

I'd like to see some feedback from the OGR staff and readers as well on this subject.

73

Joseph Toth Jr.

I'm sure it's far more complex than you present. As a retired publisher of a special interest magazine, I can see that falling advertising, falling readership, all spell the end of many magazines. Many cease publishing before they start to lose money. Also, the internet spelled the end of so many magazines. 

In my case, I'd gather news, write things up, buy interviews, cover art, columns, design the issue and send it to the printer, then it would be mailed to subscribers (entrusted to the hands of the Post Office!) and finally show up a month or so after the events I covered.

Or, the events show up on the internet a few minutes or hours after they happen—and often access is free to anyone who has a smartphone or computer and an ISP.

Having worked in magazine publishing for decades (at not only my own company, but three major magazine publishers that no longer exist) I know what the people at OGR are dealing with. I have a subscription, and my tiny bit of money helps support them.

Here is Austin’s first visit to the trains. Hope for many more. 

Almost every kid (a few never liked trains) I have known in my family loved trains until they got to the video game age and then trains were quickly forgotten about. I had a layout that the kids could use with some cheap MPC trains that I didn't care if they broke. I also let them run my trains hoping they wouldn't break anything and fortunately they didn't.

Now I live with my GF and she has two boys. We set up a small layout at Christmas time and they would play with the trains for a little bit usually running the engine so fast it flies off the tracks but it is a Railking engine. I didn't mind that they did this as I wasn't worried about the locomotive since it didn't really have any details. I was just a little worried about the electronics inside. They had a slight interest in it but as soon as it was video games time they ran to the TV/tablets. I just hoping that they would gain a slight interest in trains. I have also taken them on various train rides which they did seem to enjoy so who knows? Maybe they will be slightly interested when they are older. The one thing I have come to learn is it isn't just trains they lose interest in. The kids I live with will choose video games over ANYTHING else just like most of the kids in my family. While I can understand that video games are cool and fun to play with it isn't that kids play them that bothers me. It is the amount of time that they play them that bothers me and the fact that if left unchecked they will play video games to the exclusion of everything else. These kids I live with will sit in front of the TV playing Fortnite for hours upon hours upon hours if we let them. We limit their screen time each day but what I don't understand is how it does not get BORING playing the same game over and over again. In Fortnite you have to chase down and kill other characters, how do they not get bored of this after an hour or two and want to do something else? This boggles my mind. Lately during non screen time I have been taking them walking and the older rides his bike. School starts tomorrow and so at least screen time will go down but we won't be able to walk/bike ride anymore either. The little guy does want me to build a layout in the basement but all my hobby stuff (my trains and my car, as well as home improvement projects) have been greatly slowed down due to the fact I take of the kids in the day time until I go to work in the afternoon and mom comes home.

My sister never put any limits on screen time with her son and now that is all he knows or cares about. I bought him a Lionel starter set when he was young but he never really played with it. He is not a bad kid but if it were my son I would want him to have some other interests other than video games. I can only do so much you know.

One last story: my cousins son. I love my cousin she is awesome. When her son was young he had a real passion for trains. I mean he was really into it and I thought for sure that he would become an enthusiast some day. What happened was neither his parents (my cousin and her husband) nor her parents (my aunt and uncle) had an interest in trains so at Christmas time they just kept buying him train sets. He must have had about 7 or 8 sets but in at least 3 different gauges. So all he had was a bunch of circles of track. In my opinion it would have been a lot more interesting for him had they stuck with one gauge and bought him switches, buildings, more locomotives, etc. Then he got into video games and as usual pretty much forgot about the trains. I think he still has a slight interest in trains to this day but he is way more into video games. However, at least with him I think there is a chance the bug will bite someday.

Fortunately, it is not all kids. There are exceptions. Perfect example is forum member aussteve's grandson. Aussteve you are a very lucky guy.

I agree it is sad but I just don't know what can be done about it.

I read somewhere that once TVs became affordable for everyone to buy the membership in the TCA dropped. The theory was folks would rather watch TV then work on their layouts. I think the video game thing is similar but because it is interactive it is much more addicting. I could be wrong though.

Bottom line is I don't think there is any quick answer to this situation. Its probably a combination of many factors.

I am very active in the Civil Air Patrol and participate in our cadets activities for kids 12 to 18 years old.  While many cadet activities center around customs and courtesies (drill), and search and rescue training, these kids are incredibility tech savvy, with many in our cybersecurity, unmanned aircraft systems, and rocketry programs.  And they all look forward to competitions of any type, events that challenge them.  Frankly, I have not tried to get these cadets interested in model trains.  I give them an activity (usually outdoor) to do and they are off and running with it.

My trains are for my enjoyment (now its layout building), and everyone knows I have them.  If someone else shows interest then great.

I guess I’m one of the fortunate ones,....my grandfather worked for the Central, and he had Prewar Lionel, my dad always loved trains, so much in fact he ran a string of hobby shops up & down the east coast and sold Lionel & MTH and all the others, made all his money in the great Postwar roundups, obviously I’m in deeper than an Alabaman tic, and my son Brian has as much stuff as I do, and is actively involved in the TCA, LCCA, etc.....he is a “ gamer” but he divides his time up as he sees fit....he also actively seeks out and buys/sells trains to make a few bucks for his layout/collection.......the moral to this story.....all isn’t lost....there’s still some out there.....

Pat

I'm in my mid 30s and know of several people locally into trains who are my age or younger. Some O 3 rail, most in HO. But it turns out different generations have different interests. Lots of "young people" grew up with video games. Nothing wrong with that. They enjoy a hobby different from yours. It's not sad, just different. 

Also most younger people don't have money to throw around on model trains. You guys realize that model trains are expensive right? You can buy a PS4 for $350-400 and games will cost $20-50. That's quite a bit cheaper than buying several locomotives, rolling stock, and building a nice 3 rail layout..... Don't get started on "but cheap postwar/MPC". Someone who grew up with video games isn't going to be interested in running trains with a transformer and blowing an air whistle on a tender. They are going to need command control and digital sounds to keep them interested, and that costs money that most may not have. 

I will throw my own personal experiences out here. I am in my thirties, (that makes me a millennial) Trains have always been one of my interests starting with wooden trains and Thomas the tank engine on TV. I spent my first pay check on a Lionel set (Still have it) when I was 14, but there were always other interests (Sports, video games, mt. biking, tinkering with cars, reading, etc.). I would occasionally pick up an O scale item here and there to add to my collection throughout high school and college.

I really got back into the hobby 2 years ago when my wife and I bought our first home. Finally had a place to setup and run my trains! Started purchasing some new track, got a few legacy locos, then bought a legacy control setup and have been adding quite a few things over these last two years. Even though I have a dedicated train room, there are periods of time (a few weeks to 6 months) I don't step foot in the room, doesn't mean I have lost my interest in the hobby or trains, there are just other things I enjoy doing, including video games. 

I think a few of you were pretty spot on if it is something that is theirs or they have an in vestment in it that interest will last much longer then watching dad or grandpa play with his trains. I let my niece and nephew play my trains using the legacy remote and they did great, didn't want to give the remote back! What I am getting at is don't get too discouraged if it seems like kids lose interest, some of them will come back around.

I think, as a younger railroader (just recently post-university), if I could provide some advice for when it comes to trains vs videogames: It doesn't have to be one or the other to start with.

There are a number of video games, on a number of platforms, that involve trains.  The trick is introducing the right ones for different ages.  Older kids might enjoy a number of "railroad tycoon" type simulator games which will lead to a knowledge of industry, passengers, and other things.  This is basically building their own layout, albeit virtually.  After finishing the game, they will probably experience the same feeling when one finishes the series finale of a tv show (in this case, a wanting of something a little more... real?).   Examples include: Locomotion, Transport Fever, and Railroad Empire.  A murder mystery game I heard of is called "The Last Express".

For younger kids taking them to see big trains is a must, but there are some Nintendo games (typical system for younger gamers) that utilize trains in their entirety, or at least include trains as a form of travel (some even as a level boss!).  Google "video game trains" to see what I mean.  If the game was fun, they will remember that aspect for a long, long time. 

Shows like "Thomas the Tank Engine" will help a lot too, or even shows that are set in time periods where train travel is a natural thing (some teens might enjoy the dubbed version of a Japanese Anime (made for older kids usually) called "Baccano!", which quite literally involves the fictional gruesome, and supernatural, happenings on a transcontinental train in the American 1930s).  The good news is that there are OPTIONS (you don't need an unsanctioned "monster" movie night to seem like the cool grandparent either when there are ones with trains in them).

On the physical side, one thing that might have gotten me more enthused about my uncles layout when I was small, might have been a painting session.  Assemble a smaller train with some generic and cheap box cars, and have the kid paint them with you.  Add decals after maybe if you like, but then the train will truly be "theirs" and might not seem as daunting if it had been a "not for small hands" model. 

In other words, PLAY THE LONG GAME.  It wont happen over night, and don't make it seem like your pushing trains for some kids.  Do not be afraid to leave the comfort of the train table to slowly bring them to it.  Sure it might vanish after they hit say 7, but there are ways of keeping tracks in the mindset indirectly.  At least till they can afford their own.

I'm 17, turning 18 in a couple of months, and have been collecting trains for about 10 years (I've always had Thomas the Tank Engine, still collect them, but I digress), and I love them all, and I also play video games. None of my friends are into trains (at least the ones my age,) but that's just not their thing. A lot of kids haven't grown up around trains, that probably is what leads to teens not getting into them.

I agree that trains generally aren't integrated into American life the way they were in the '40s and '50s.  So that element is sadly lost.

I can also see where some kids would get bored with existing layouts that are just built for loop running.  As a toddler with wooden floor trains, laying the track, changing it, etc., was half the fun!  Fast-forward to electric trains, and running them WITH someone (my brother) was the other half!  Hence i recommend a 2-train minimum with some interactive provisions for changing tracks, exchanging cars, etc.  Trains don't steer, so plenty of switches and routes are important!

I've also always been a fan of games -- board games, strategy games, route and network building, etc.  I've been mulling an idea to incorporate strategy game-like elements into the layout I'm designing.  The "game" would be a cooperative rather than a competitive endeavor for 2-4 people.  The idea is to give the trains a realistic sense of purpose, without going all the way into car cards and timetable operation.  I'm familiar with those.  I've used them on some HO layouts which are an amazing representation of the prototype.  But they don't always work well on O gauge home layouts because to make them believable you need a long mainline, and usually a very large room. (I grew up in Pennsylvania but I got tired of the winters and moved to the Land of No Basements )

My goal is to engage my guests -- especially my "non-train" friends -- and hopefully win some converts to the hobby.  Of course if they just want to sit back and watch, over the course of a half-hour they would see much more varied action than just a train running around a loop.  With command control, LCS sensor tracks, iPad interface, etc., the technology exists today to build something that's more interactive than ever before!  It might not be simple or cheap, but I'm convinced that it's doable.  But I've hardly seen this approach embodied in an O gauge layout; not even in print.  So maybe I'm destined to be the first.  For the sake of the Hobby and to satisfy my restless spirit, I have to try!

If there are any board game fans on the Forum that are interested in helping me develop this concept, please contact me offline at the email in my profile, and we can set up a Hangout, Zoom, etc., to discuss ideas.  Eventually I would like to publish the idea in a book, along with some of the layouts I designed that are suitable for it.

The bottom line is you can not make anyone like what you like.  The will or they will not.  Giving them the trains or tennis racket etc. often not help them get interested in what you like.  Many youngsters like different things than the parents or grandparents, and this divide is bigger now with the high tech stuff widening the gap.

Most of us oldsters like football, baseball and maybe basketball but my son and all the grand kids love soccer.  My son does love all sports though like even Frisbee and foot golf.

Of my son and daughters families and seven grand kids 8 to16, my daughter is the only one that can run my train 37 switch and accessories layout and the son and son in law are engineers, ChE and EE.

Charlie

@david1 posted:

You can't build a layout for somebody else, you have to build it for yourself.

Bingo! You can certainly hope that what you create will attract and interest others (young and/or old) to perhaps get their feet wet in the hobby, but you certainly cannot make anyone else get involved. A hobby is an individual pursuit for the most part, and it should be enjoyed in the way YOU wish to enjoy it. If you are fortunate enough to become a part of the fraternity of model railroaders who share your interests and enthusiasm, than so much the better. And if you able to inspire just one other person to become actively involved in the hobby, you have contributed to the growth of the hobby in a very significant way.

@david1 posted:

You can't build a layout for somebody else, you have to build it for yourself. 

Dave

I think this is a point many in my generation miss.  The kids today don't spend weeks and months fantasizing about getting train sets.  They don't design the layouts.  They don't build them, learning along the way what makes the different things work.  They don't decorate the layouts.  They don't have to save up their money to buy items for the layout.  Frequently they are only allowed to run the trains under close adult supervision.  They don't have the same investment in the train layouts as kids my age had.  Electric trains were highly interactive for kids of my generation.  It was an experience more comparable to Thomas the Tank Engine sets today (or at least when my kids were young).  For most kids today electric trains are a far more passive form of entertainment.  It is not surprising that many would opt for the more interactive video games.

Some people get into trains, and some don't. I have brothers, and I'm the only one who got into trains.  People have different interests, and their interests change from time to time. It's hard to predict what a person will grow up to like, based on a snapshot of what they liked when they were young children. 

@brianel_k-lineguy posted:

...

 

I'd then have to point out the pages in the catalog where the starter products were. And those starter products were there. BUT first impressions are important. And I guess Lionel hasn't learned that lesson, because the catalogs start off with all the high-end expensive built-to-order stuff, followed way in the back by the trains that are going to keep them in business for the long-term. The starter products should always be right up front on the first pages in the catalog. The adults who are looking for high end products will persevere, turn the pages and find what they are looking for. 

 

Truer words were never spoken.

As I tried to say in my earlier post, I agree with those that say there are far too many other more interesting (exciting?) things for a child to do now-a-days.  When I was young (don't you hate saying that) there were electric trains and rubber band power airplanes, but mostly army toys and toy weapons to chase each other.  Before Christmas last year. I dropped by our local hobby shop.  It has two different radio control car tracks behind the store, one for formula 1 type cars and the other for off road type cars.  And there were children around 5-6 years old, with their parents, that were driving those cars around the track better than I could.  In the parking lot there were kids flying those mini/micro drones.  Things like that are a lot more exciting, and more interactive, than watching a train go around in loops and blowing the horn once in a while.

To me model railroads are perfect for those of us that are slowing down and approaching retirement, or are already there.  It is a great retirement hobby, and I personally think we should be pushing this aspect.  I'm not too worried about kids and their video games because it keeps their minds active and does well for hand-eye coordination (social media sites are different).  I'd like to get my peers off the couch and doing something other than watch TV.  These are the folks I talk to about model trains, and I do it whenever I can.

Reading some of these replies, maybe I wasn't so far off when I built an N scale layout 'for myself' before we had children.  I built an HO layout growing up.  No one in my family was interested in trains, so I was all alone in the hobby.  We didn't have children until I was 35, and neither daughter had any interest though I tried to interest them.  The older liked watching Thomas the Tank, but not running my trains.

Now the girls are grown and married several years, living nearby.  I'll be 64 soon, and no grandchildren in sight.  I started getting the idea I needed to make the layout more 'kid friendly' Thomas and other kid oriented trains, operating accessories, which even bore me after a short while.  My wife has picked up various young child plastic and wood train sets, which are stored with other things she got for the grandchildren when and if we have any.  They will be interested, or they won't.  There isn't a lot we can do about it other than introduce them and be there to help or let them go back to other activities.  I sure would like to leave my trains to one or more interested grandchildren, but I may go through life as the only one interested in the hobby.

I guess kids today may be interested in a DCS or TMCC remote with Pap Pap's trains or they won't.  My dad introduced me to fly fishing and hunting.  I went with him, but never was enthusiastic.  I haven't bought a license since the '70s.  He could lament like some of us but if he has lamented, I have never seen it.

How many of today’s model railroaders had trains through their working years, or even through their high school years? For me, those years were filled with work, summer family vacations, girls, cars and kids of our own. Not to mention moves during my 27 years in the Air Force. Once I settled in Phoenix, space was nonexistent. And now, medical issues have kept me from beginning a layout I’ve had drawn for years. Admittedly, I’m not affiliated with railroading in any way and a layout is not my top priority, but for the last 4 years that I’ve finally had some space, other things, like cross-country trips to visit grandsons and other family, have taken precedence. In fact, now that we’re both semi-healthy again, we’re in Georgia visiting a daughter in her new home on Lake Lanier. My wife is still doing rehab for her shoulder, so the train space is being used for exercise equipment, probably until after the New Year. So once again building has been delayed and the goal now is January when rehab should be done. Granted, if I really wanted to get it done, I’d have found a way, but that’s just part of life. If I had had access to video games and hundreds of TV channels as a kid who knows if I’d have ever had a train set. Plus, back then, they were all over the place in stores, not just Bass Pro Shops. It’s kind of like cars. How many of today’s kids care all that much about cars, much less how to mod them for more power, style, etc. How many kids get a job so they can buy a Holley carb with Edelbrock intake manifold, custom mag wheels or, heaven forbid, a set of rear fender skirts. If I mentioned those things that were part of my youth, I’d get nothing but a blank stare. And that’s okay, times change and so do tastes. The boys liked my temporary train layouts when they were little, but then they discovered baseball and it has consumed their lives. Even after they graduate in the spring, they’ll transition to coaching and trying to build a training/rehab facility. Trains and a lot of other things are not even on the radar. And that’s just fine with me. 

I passed the "train gene" on to my son. His main interest is N scale with DCC and he likes Lionel Pre-War.  Good enough for me. He has an interest in video games but there is no conflict with trains.

Mark

To interest kids- a tough problem.

- I have a small figure of a wrestler- that we call "Muscleman".  My 4 year old grandson, every time he comes, "hides" Muscleman somewhere on the layout.  Grandpa makes a big deal of trying to find him (even though most of the time, Muscleman is in plain sight and Joel keeps pointing to the figure as I am diligently searching).   Then he and his Dad go into another room while Grandpa hides Muscleman.  

- I make sure that, whenever a child is expected, that LionChief Plus engines are on the layout.  Kids as small as 2 years old have run the trains using these simple remotes.  They have great fun blowing the whistle and ringing the bell. 

A train running around a circle has little (as J.L. Cowen called it)  "play value" in and of itself.  Never turn off the things that have play value.  This is a mistake we adults make when the whistles, bells and smoke get on our nerves, so we turn those features off.  

Older kids can actually help on the layout- painting and placing trees, weathering buildings using chalk - all can be done by a child of 8 or more.  But we have to get them involved before the teenage years!!

Consider being a Railroading Merit Badge Counselor for the Scouts.  Impact a boy (and now girl) of 11- 15 or so, with what might become a lifelong hobby.  Here is where to see the requirements and details:

https://boyscouttrail.com/boy-...ding-merit-badge.asp

I don't know enough about video games to know whether what I am about to say is possible.

Is there a way to combine a child's interest in video games with an adult's interest in model railroading?

Maybe the young among us can answer that question. Arnold

I should have mentioned in my previous reply that neither of my two sons have any interest in model trains currently. They both participated about a decade ago and are part of the main reason I got into O Gauge because of all the action accessories, etc. Both will help me out now and then, are aware of the various scales, etc, but its not their cup of tea.

The oldest (20) was obsessed with Thomas the Tank Engine as a kid, but that's about it. He's been consumed by video games ever since and now is consumed by the soldier of fortune type video games.

The youngest (17) is more into sports like me and spends his free time physically playing, virtually playing, or watching sports on TV. He watches the Tour de France every year (currently going on now, BTW) and knows all the cycling teams, strategies,  etc.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

How many of today’s model railroaders had trains through their working years, or even through their high school years? For me, those years were filled with work, summer family vacations, girls, cars and kids of our own.  

 

 

 Although I was a "train nut" as a kid, my main love of trains was watching live steam in action up to around 1953. After that, no more steam to watch. I had a Lionel since age 6, but never a formal layout. My dad was not into trains. By 16 it was dating and cars. Somehow the model train bug bit in 1983 by visiting someone with a postwar Flyer layout. I was 41 with 4 kids. Started collecting those, and had a S layout at Christmas. As time went on, money was a bit tight. We had 3 in college, (oldest plus twins) at the same time for 2 years. Somehow my interest switched to O (1:43 cars a big reason). My O Christmas layout, built in 1986, is still in use. It took a 1 year-old grandson to get me into a year 'round layout in 2005. So, a BIG gap in time.

Mike Wyatt: I fully agree.  If there were more young people active in the Scouts there wouldn't be as many domestic social problems encountered in our society today.  Creating an interest in trains is a great idea, and as you suggest, might possibly lead to a lifetime of pleasure in The World's Greatest Hobby.  It may even open the door to a career in railroading for many boys and girls who haven't made a decision what they plan to persue as a career after graduating from high school or college.

Amfleet25124 Kevin: Do you model the Florida railroad scene?  The best days of my youth were railfanning Tampa and environs with my best (late) friend, Robert E. Taff.  I'm still a fan on the ACL, SAL, SCL, and Family Lines era of railroads in the Sunshine State, with some FEC, RF&P, and PRR thrown in for seasoning.  I've also found a new interest in the Strasburg Rail Road.  Love it when steam takes over Diesel Duties to deliver revenue freight to the Norfolk Southern (x-PRR tracks) at Paradise. 

73

Joe