I came across this doing some research on Sant Fe's 3460 class Hudsons: https://www.glacierparkmodels.com/sf_hudsons-1.html

Notice the large "Santa Fe" heralds on either side of 3461's number on the tender. What time period was Santa Fe painting steam locomotives in the scheme? I have 2 MTH Premier models of the 3460 class, one being 3463, which is decorated just like 3465 in the link, and the other is 3460 ("Blue Goose"). I've never seen any photographs of a 3460 class Hudson decorated like 3461 in the link. I'm guessing that it's an actual scheme that 3461 wore, but it must have been short lived.

Santa Fe, All the Way

Original Post

I know that I have further info re this large herald on Santa Fe's steam engines, but the quickest I came up with is from a photo in Worley's Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail, page 303.  It shows a 3451 class Hudson with a single large herald on the tender, just behind the locomotive cab.  The photo caption reads, "For a time Santa Fe applied a large company herald to several passenger locomotive tenders."  The photo date is 1940.

I know also that at one time Scott Mann was considering a run of ATSF 4-6-4's among which was the double-herald tender paint scheme.  I would've jumped at the chance, but, alas, as so often happens there were insufficient takers for this engine/class among all proposed paint schemes to proceed with the project.  I believe the MTH Premier runs in about the same time frame had much to do with this stillborn effort.  At least, that's my aging recollection.

But, yes, I'm am most sure that I've seen photo(s) of this tender herald as applied to the 1:1's.  Surely, though you can judge that they were not easy for the paint shops to apply, the maintenance teams to keep as clean and proud as the top brass would have them be at the point of their crack passenger runs.  Also, if the 1940 time frame is about right, I'm sure the war effort shortly thereafter had much to do with eliminating this bit of bling.

I'm sure others more knowledgeable will chime in......stay tunedl!

KD

Three locomotives are known to have received the large 6-1/2 foot square heralds:

4-6-4  3461   May, 1940  Two heralds on square 20,000 gallon tender

4-6-2  3420   1940   Two heralds on square 20,000 gallon tender

4-6-4  3452    1940   One herald on stepped 15,000 gallon tender

None are believed to have survived 1944.  These three engines were Eastern Lines engines, and normally ran Chicago-Kansas City-Houston.

The billboard 24-inch SANTA FE lettering also began to be applied to large tenders in 1940, although smaller tenders did not receive the railroad name and soldiered on until retirement with just the engine number painted on the side.

Source:  Larry E. Brasher and Stan Kistler, Santa Fe Railway Steam Locomotive Painting, Lettering & Detail Guide for Model Railroaders.  Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society, 2007

Tom

 

Superintendent, High Plains Division (O Gauge) 

The Panhandle & Santa Fe Railway Co.

Lone Star Hi-Railers

Santa Fe, All the Way

hello guys and gals

I think it looks much better on the larger 16 wheel tenders like the 2900, 5011 class engines as the 6 1/2 foot heralds look out of place on the smaller 12 wheel tenders.  I just looked at the pictures of them, they don't look right for some reason.

But the Lord is faithful.  He will give you strength and protect you from the Evil one. 2 Thessalonians 3:3 ERV (easy to read version)

Tiffany (widowed)

 

Number 90 posted:

Three locomotives are known to have received the large 6-1/2 foot square heralds:

4-6-4  3461   May, 1940  Two heralds on square 20,000 gallon tender

4-6-2  3420   1940   Two heralds on square 20,000 gallon tender

4-6-4  3452    1940   One herald on stepped 15,000 gallon tender

None are believed to have survived 1944.  These three engines were Eastern Lines engines, and normally ran Chicago-Kansas City-Houston.

The billboard 24-inch SANTA FE lettering also began to be applied to large tenders in 1940, although smaller tenders did not receive the railroad name and soldiered on until retirement with just the engine number painted on the side.

Source:  Larry E. Brasher and Stan Kistler, Santa Fe Railway Steam Locomotive Painting, Lettering & Detail Guide for Model Railroaders.  Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society, 2007

So it was only on 3461 and only about 1940. I have an upcoming project with a 3460 class Hudson, 3464 to be exact. Tender needs a total redo so I was thinking of going with the unique double herald on 3461. But there's 2 issues: 1st is 3464 never had this scheme. 2nd I model 1947-1951. This design was long gone by then. I'm considering doing it anyway. I think it would differentiate it from my model of 3463 and it's my railroad. I can do what I want. It wouldn't be the most egregious thing on my layout. On my layout the Rock Island collapsed just after WWII and the Southern Pacific bought them out. They compete with the Santa Fe all the way back to Chicago. So what's little artistic license with a tender scheme. It's prototypical, just not for the timeframe I'm modeling. 

Santa Fe, All the Way

Dominic Mazoch posted:

90:

Did those engines ever get to Galveston, 50 miles south of Houston?

Possibly.  However, I don't know for certain.  Good question.

Westbound Santa Fe passenger trains entered Houston over the T&NO, and the Galveston cars continued on as a shorter train. Houston Belt & Terminal switched the depot and serviced the engines in the postwar era, although I cannot say for sure if the HB&T handled the steam engines in 1940-44.  If so, Santa Fe likely sent the engine through to Galveston to avoid the charges from the terminal railroad.

That really helped a lot, didn't it?  

After thinking about this, I am almost certain that steam passenger power went through to Galveston.  But I have an email out to someone who ought to know for sure and will post the answer I get.

Tom

 

Superintendent, High Plains Division (O Gauge) 

The Panhandle & Santa Fe Railway Co.

Lone Star Hi-Railers

Santa Fe, All the Way

I habe taken the ATSF route out of Union Station once.

ATSF ran the TEXAS CHIEF to Galveston until 1968.  Galveston did have engine facilities.

HBT did have a roundhouse a few miles east of Union on the joint MKT and MP line.  But ATSF did have its freight worked to the south of town.  Good question about where in Houston ATSF serviced its steam.

BTW, the ATSF line Galveston to a point inside the state of Oklahoma was built and ranby a company mainly owned by Galveston County!  Long story.......

The TEXAS SPECIAL:  The REAL RED streak of the golden prairies!

I was sent to Galveston temporarily, in 1971.  I drove into the yard and noticed that the yard office sat up on pilings (yes, real pilings like you see under a pier).  That was my first indication that they had not told me everything in advance.  I went over to the roundhouse, where several men were looking into the turntable pit, at a large western diamondback rattlesnake. That was my second indication.  My first night, on a switcher with GP7 2670, the Switchmen told me they did not step off of equipment while moving because the yard was full of rattlesnakes.  That was complete confirmation.  Later, when I was called for a freight train to Belville, I learned that they turned the turntable there, by tying a rope onto an old Ford pickup and pulling it around to the desired track.  By that time, nothing surprised me.

Tom

 

Superintendent, High Plains Division (O Gauge) 

The Panhandle & Santa Fe Railway Co.

Lone Star Hi-Railers

Santa Fe, All the Way

Ah, yes...back in the late 70's, early 80's, our automotive products company decided to build a plant in north Texas.  Those who elected to move from Michigan to Texas reported back almost daily on the amazing cultural differences...from real estate zoning attitudes, bearing arms, high school football mania (not basketball!!!), etc., to dozens of "festivals".   Among the latter to grab their attention was the annual Sweetwater Rattlesnake Roundup....drawing crowds in excess of 20,000 folks, and accumulating a pit full of several TONS of rattlesnakes!  Yeeeee-hawwwww!!

But, lest we digress....anyone found a photo, yet, of one of those few engines with the double herald on the tender??  And, did anyone make O scale decal sets for the same??

Thanks, Tom, for your info!

KD

dkdkrd posted:

But, lest we digress....anyone found a photo, yet, of one of those few engines with the double herald on the tender??  And, did anyone make O scale decal sets for the same??

Thanks, Tom, for your info!

KD

Microscale makes an O scale Santa Fe steam locomotive decal set that includes 2 of the heralds. You would need to buy 2 sets to get the 4 heralds required for 3461's tender. 

Santa Fe, All the Way

dkdkrd posted:

Ah, yes...back in the late 70's, early 80's, our automotive products company decided to build a plant in north Texas.  Those who elected to move from Michigan to Texas reported back almost daily on the amazing cultural differences...from real estate zoning attitudes, bearing arms, high school football mania (not basketball!!!), etc., to dozens of "festivals".   Among the latter to grab their attention was the annual Sweetwater Rattlesnake Roundup....drawing crowds in excess of 20,000 folks, and accumulating a pit full of several TONS of rattlesnakes!  Yeeeee-hawwwww!!

But, lest we digress....anyone found a photo, yet, of one of those few engines with the double herald on the tender??  And, did anyone make O scale decal sets for the same??

Thanks, Tom, for your info!

KD

Snakes usually don't bother me.  However, a pit full of rattlesnakes would certainly get my attention and send a shiver up my spine.  I wouldn't want to walk around a rail yard full of rattlesnakes in the dark either.   NH Joe

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