Scratchbuilt Signals

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Hot Water posted:

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Same here, no images.

Don

Interesting topic but NO pics. Please resize and reload the pics. Thank you.

 I would rather purchase them already made.

Anyone have any ideas?

Dave

Seattle

If you can tolerate plastic signal heads, there's a seller on eBay that has them. They're "wehonest". Just search "O Scale Signals" and one of their listings should come up. They have ready-made signals with LED's and resistors for 12VDC operation for between $4 an $5 each in small lots. The down side is they're plastic; the up side is they're so inexpensive that it's not a real big deal if one gets sheared off in a derailment.

Thank you Matt.  But, it's not the heads I am looking for.  It's the ladders.  I am building the actual signals with LED's.  They are all brass construction.

Dave

Seattle

maybe this would assist if your Germans up to it:

http://wenz-modellbau.eshop.t-...671/Products/WM0603g

Looks like you're off to a good start.  Keep going.  As information, most -- not all -- color light signals place green at the top and red at the bottom, but some (C&O) oriented them as shown in your photos.

Ok Tom, now you are confusing me.   You say, most...not all...color light signals place green at the top and red at the bottom.

That's what these are.  Green at the top, red at the bottom.   So, am I not modeling as...most?  

Dave

Seattle

Ladders from Precision Scale Company , proto 48 , Grandt line and plasticstrut.

Very nicely done.  The pictures showed up for me.

I have purchased from "WeHonest" on many occasions.  They have never failed to send what I needed, at the best price, and with quick shipping. Why would you transmit a message that would imply that they are not trustworthy? That's the way false information gets spread on the web. Anyone Googling their name will find your comment.  Luckily, they will also find mine.

i have a complete B&O setup i had NJ International create them for me i have one or two of every B&O type of signal on my layout if you call them and tell them what you want they can do it,  if you head to York Jack Larussa will be there with NJ and you can talk to him thats how i got started.  But good luck with your project i hope you can find the parts you need

R Nelson posted:

Let's think about this for a minute guys...........  Do you REALLY want to deal with somebody on that famous auction site with the name "We Honest"???????    Come to think about it......this could be the campaign slogan for some of our Presidential candidates...LOL!

I don't know why they chose that handle, but they live up to their name. Their products are as described, low-cost, and work. They don't misrepresent their stuff. They've always delivered. Keep in mind these signals, though scale sized, are plastic (which is why they're $4-5 each) but you can paint the posts to make them look more realistic.

AGHRMatt posted:

If you can tolerate plastic signal heads, there's a seller on eBay that has them. They're "wehonest". Just search "O Scale Signals" and one of their listings should come up. They have ready-made signals with LED's and resistors for 12VDC operation for between $4 an $5 each in small lots. The down side is they're plastic; the up side is they're so inexpensive that it's not a real big deal if one gets sheared off in a derailment.

Wouldn't it be "prototypical" if it got sheared off in a derailment.

AGHRMatt posted:

R Nelson posted:

Let's think about this for a minute guys...........  Do you REALLY want to deal with somebody on that famous auction site with the name "We Honest"???????    Come to think about it......this could be the campaign slogan for some of our Presidential candidates...LOL!

I don't know why they chose that handle, but they live up to their name. Their products are as described, low-cost, and work. They don't misrepresent their stuff. They've always delivered. Keep in mind these signals, though scale sized, are plastic (which is why they're $4-5 each) but you can paint the posts to make them look more realistic.

I've purchased from them in the past.  They are what their name indicates.  

thanks everyone for your positive comments.

as a side note here: These signals, including the PCB, led's and the wiring cost about $4.00 each, to build.

It takes about 1 hour to build each one.

Dave

Seattle

You're doing a real nice job on those signals Dave. I always appreciate someone building something  verses buying ready to go all the time.

Bob

thank you Bob.

I forgot to mention in my last post...that cost also includes the signal driver boards.

My love for this hobby, lays in scratchbuilding.

if I use a kit, it is always turned into a kitbashing project.

Running trains is not the primary goal in my world. Turning my layout into a showpiece is paramount.

I enjoy running trains, but I would rather build something!

Dave

Seattle

fl9turbo2 posted:

i have a complete B&O setup i had NJ International create them for me i have one or two of every B&O type of signal on my layout if you call them and tell them what you want they can do it,  if you head to York Jack Larussa will be there with NJ and you can talk to him thats how i got started.  But good luck with your project i hope you can find the parts you need

Have you found a way to integrate the NJI CPLs into the Atlas System?  I would love to use their signals, they're gorgeous, but am told that they're not compatible and no one seems to know how to make them so.  It is very painful to have to use PRR-type signals on a B&O line!

Dacs posted:

Ok Tom, now you are confusing me.   You say, most...not all...color light signals place green at the top and red at the bottom.

That's what these are.  Green at the top, red at the bottom.   So, am I not modeling as...most?  

Yes you are, Dave,  I must be becoming dyslectic as I age.  Mea culpa.  

Rapid Transit Holmes posted:

fl9turbo2 posted:

i have a complete B&O setup i had NJ International create them for me i have one or two of every B&O type of signal on my layout if you call them and tell them what you want they can do it,  if you head to York Jack Larussa will be there with NJ and you can talk to him thats how i got started.  But good luck with your project i hope you can find the parts you need

Have you found a way to integrate the NJI CPLs into the Atlas System?  I would love to use their signals, they're gorgeous, but am told that they're not compatible and no one seems to know how to make them so.  It is very painful to have to use PRR-type signals on a B&O line!

I spoke to Nj when I first started about that this is what was told to me they will not work with atlas because Nj are common anode and atlas is common cathode all other signals are common anode (common plus) except atlas you can do it if you build circuit to flip the common but as far as I know no one makes one for sale 

we just had this discussion at the club for our signal system. we went from using NJI position light signals to the Atlas PL signals. because of the difference in the ground side, we will be building our own flip-flop circuit boards. as we had done previously.

I'm afraid that any electronic device beyond "plug 'n' play" far exceeds my pay grade and intellectual capacity, therefore, I'm stuck.  Atlas is by far the superior system, in a separate league, prototypical in concept and operation.  Z-Stuff has a feature that will permit occupancy detection in a single block beyond their signal but still relies primarily on motion detection.

It's too bad that NJI continues on its own path when it has the potential of opening up and entirely new market in Atlas compatible signals with only a minimal investment in altered wiring.  Regardless, NJI has shown their O Scale CPLs as being "out of stock" for as long as I've been checking their website.  Apparently they don't want the business.

The problem is that you have to have signals wired like the Nji signals are because all of the control systems that are needed to activate the complex pattern that I need for my b&o system use common cathode like digitraxx the atlas o system will not work my system 

my goodness

such a lot of info. I have missed a lot in a couple of days.

my signal system is common anode.

it is a negative logic system. It is totally isolated from the detector. It is easily interfaced with a computer. It can be built with as many bells and whistles as I want and it will never force me to take out a mortgage.

in the jargon of geeks...normal logic is: high is true, low is false.

my system: Low is true, high is false. It uses no dropping resistors, nor driving transistors. It is driven by one 74ls00 per head.

I was tired of expensive this and that, when none of it is necessary.

I dont know much about commercial systems other than, most are way over engineered and priced. I believe in the k.i.s.s principle. I use a detector designed by R. Paisley that allows for a.c. Or d.c. He has many, very useful designs for model railroaders.

(sigh). I better watch it or I will have to put my money where my mouth is.

Dave

Seattle

Now that I have teased you all with the signals.  I am going to run a thread on building them.

I had always wanted a fully functional ABS on my railroad.  The cost of commercial signals and the electronics for driving them, has always been a factor for not doing it.  So, I decided to design and build my own.  I have a degree in electronics design, which I have used to build many model railroad electronics devices.  From throttles all the way to this.  Also, understand...some of this is experiment as I go.

Anyway, the parameters for the system was for it to be either fully interlocking (ABS) or CTC (distant operation).  What I finally decided upon, was for it to be fully ABS, which can be interfaced with a computer if one so desires.

I realize that some, maybe a lot of you, don't know electronics.  That's not meant to be an insult. 

I will try to keep the 'geek' factor down.  There are however, some things I have to explain that may get a little complicated.  I will try to answer any questions that may come up in the process.

This system is three color: Green single head...absolute, proceed at normal speed.

          Yellow single head...absolute, proceed at half speed.  Be prepared to stop at next signal if red.

          Red single head...absolute, stop!

          Green, lower yellow, two head signal ( sidings or route changes) absolute, proceed at slow speed.

          Green, green...(rail crossings) two head signal absolute, proceed at normal speed.

          Green, yellow...(rail crossings) two head signal absolute, proceed at normal speed.

          Yellow, yellow...(rail crossings) two head signal absolute, proceed at half speed.

          Yellow, Red...(rail crossings) two head signal absolute, stop

          Red, red...(rail crossings) two head signal absolute, stop

I think this covers all the indications.  You can see the pics above for the signals physical appearance.  Not sure all this is even prototypical.  But, I am the owner, so it is prototypical for my railroad.

I wanted this system to be very inexpensive.  There is only one chip per signal head driver.  For turnouts, there are two chips per driver.  These chips cost me .40 each.  So for two signals per block, that's only .80!  The signals them selves cost me about $2.00 per.  That includes the LED's.  Those cost .07 apiece through a company  named LED Switch.   www.led-switch.com  

The PCB's cost me about $1.00 each.  I purchase full boards through a company named Circuit Specialists.  From these, I make my own circuit boards with my design.  They are very reasonable in price.  www.circuitspecialists.com

So, that comes to what...$3.61 per signal!   I think that is very do-able!

Now that I have introduced what I am getting ready to do with this thread.  I will do my best to start the SBS today.  I will try not to disappoint. 

Right now, duty calls (other than model railroading)...I have to make a run across town.  Hopefully, I can get this started today.  I am not trying to bump myself to the top of the list or to keep my thread the most obvious.

Dave

Seattle

Shiloh signals does B&O signals. Unfortunately, they use common Cathode way for the led's. Bummer since I obtained some unique PRR signals from them that Custom Signals doesn't produce such as Left Angle Dwarfs and Pedestal Signals.

Orignally posted by FL9Turbo2:

The problem is that you have to have signals wired like the Nji signals are because all of the control systems
 that are needed to activate the complex pattern that I need for my b&o system use common cathode like digitraxx the 
atlas o system will not work my system 

YEah it SUCKS when Mfg's go proprietary with their signals/systems/ and/or controlboards. Many lack the complete Signals heads in their lineup.

I am responding to you from a remote location.

This is also another reason I designed my own system.  It is common anode or negative logic.  The system is driven by ground rather than +5vdc.   That is why I can use only one chip per head.  

As negative logic, there are no dropping resistors nor driving transistors.  Makes it all real inexpensive.  It does require thinking in reverse though.  Normally, industry uses positive logic.  Here comes some 'geek' factor...Positive logic means High is True Low is False.  My system uses Low is True and High is False.  It's like trying to drive a car that:   steer left you go right.  Steer right, you go left.  It really is outside the box.  But, it works beautifully and perfectly.  But all this may come later on.  Right now, I am wanting to show how to build the signals.

Dave

Seattle

Dave,

Excellent, I can't wait to follow your thread. I am planning to dismantle my suspended layout and create a garden layout, and a signal system would be something I would like to add as the layout grows.

This sounds like a great side business, and one that would be some good competition to possibly spark some changes by other manufacturers. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Don

Thank you Don, for your comments.

I have done all the tables for this. It will not be required that anyone knows this. But, for those who have that interest, I may include it.

This system will work with G scale too. The detectors would of course, have to carry higher amperage. As the actual signal system is completely isolated from track power, the only difference I can foresee, would be 5mm led's. This would require a higher amp 5v power supply.

There are three ic's that will work as drivers. 7400hc, 74ls00 and 74hct00.

CMOS cannot be used!

Turnouts have two ic's per board. 7432 and 7408. Same parameters as above. Rail crossings have 3 ic's per board. 7432's

I am getting way off subject.

The heads are where I will begin. Here are some pics of the heads. I will show more pics of sbs construction with all the info and materials.

They are a scale 34" in width in 1:48.

They led's are 3mm or a close 6" lens. They are on 1/4" centers, which is prototypical.

The  measurements for the signals are taken from Wayne Rodericks drawings. He is the owner of the Teton Short Line.

Dave

Seattle