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My wife and I are planning to move, so I am therefore shopping for a train room with house attached.  I am focused on a basement for the train as few houses have viable attics and the garage will be a workshop.  A spare bedroom is too small for my vision.  Ideally looking at a large around the room multi-level type of layout, possibly with some peninsulas.

I have looked at hundreds of houses on Realtor web sites and have toured a few in person.  I am seeing a mix of basements that are undeveloped and many that are developed and I am getting impressions.

All basements have water tanks, electrical boxes, furnaces, water softeners, etc.; often sump pumps.  It’s a case-by-case situation, but many of these items interfere with a potential layout.  The more these items are grouped together the better.  When they are widely scattered around there are fewer layout options (can’t block service access).

While it would be nice to have a finished basement, often the way that people have finished off basements are not helpful for a big layout.  There is usually a “rec room” but these are often irregularly shaped, limiting layout options. They often have a bar or kitchen,  and often there are closets or doors to other rooms that are scattered about, thus blocking the potential of an around the wall layout.  Electrical distribution often inadequate.  Lighting often inadequate.  Finish quality is very irregular.

People seem to chop up basements and make rooms that have no particular purpose, sometimes workout / weight rooms.  Real estate agents call these bonus rooms.  Sometimes there are bedrooms and bathrooms, usually storage (I will need some), often a utility room (good if utilities are clustered).  It has come up to consider tearing down the walls creating “bonus Rooms” thereby making a bigger rec room, but this often creates an issue with whatever the floor is (often carpet) and whatever the ceiling is.   Also, this does not usually overcome the scattered door / closet and bar issue.

I do hope for some windows for natural light, sometimes there are walkout door walls.

Seems like floors are often carpeted due to irregularities in the slab and a preference for carpet that I don’t share.

I am coming to the conclusion that I am better off with an unfinished basement so that I can optimize the space for the layout.  I have enough construction skills to do this and I don’t need a high degree of finish for the train room.  I could live with painted walls and floor.  It will be dumb luck if a built-out rec room works.

One issue though is the ceiling.  I see a lot of basements with open raw joists above, even if the room is otherwise finished.  I find this look weird.  Sometimes, the joists have been painted, usually black or gray.  Not great, but I could live with it.  Rarely drywall, because of the pipes and ducts below the joists.  Drop ceiling is the other option, sometimes resulting in low ceiling height due to ducts and a lot of work.

I read somewhere on the forum that open joists above a layout allow dust to filter down from above and such layouts are dustier than others.  Do open joists above really create a dust problem?  I don’t find this hard to believe, but how severe?  Is this a major or minor issue?  Does painting the open joists help the dust situation?  Seems like it would not, but don’t know.  May consider such painting in lieu of drop ceiling.

I am interested in any general observations about my overview of basements for a layout and pros and cons about how to approach the various issues.

Thank You

Bill

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Painting will help with dust dirt falling from above plus give a cleaner uniform look to an open ceiling.   The dust factor is probably more related to the type of subfloor,  older houses with individual 1x8 or similar boards would let more debris through vs plywood.  

Starting with an empty basement to design your layout will be easier.  Dealing with utilities and mechanical systems will always be a challenge as relocating them can be costly or near impossible.

I agree with your approach, and with @AFrame's post above.  A few points to add...

1) Consider a basement with a bathroom or the ability to add one.  Very convenient, especially when you have people visiting to run trains.  If I could do only one thing differently, this would be it.

2) Consider the ease with which you can add electrical circuits.

3) An unfinished or minimally finished basement is a good starting point, especially since you feel comfortable doing the work.  Not only does a finished basement mean that you're paying for it and will be demolishing perfectly good work, but it can hide problems.

I'm in the same boat, shopping for another house that meets our needs.   What I'm searching for is a smaller house, single floor or at least first floor master.   Need an attached garage and/or enough space to have another garage built to specifications.   A two car garage with a second floor would be about right or have an extension built that gives me the space I desire.   I hate the idea of moving but the wife's health is making it necessary so I might as well go for it all.    However it is beginning to look like I'll need to have the new house built so now I'm mostly looking at building sites in Western NC.   

-Mike in NC,

3019EEB2-D4C1-40A3-9AB3-5072E6C543A4Building a shed is the idea my wife thought of. We had a 12’ by 16’ shed built for us by a local lumber supply company. It is not huge, but it is large enough for us. Our layout is an around the wall plan and has two levels. It has a concrete floor, and we had the contractor put in plenty of electrical plugs. For us, this was a good solution.
I hope you find a solution that will work well for you. Good luck and have fun railroading!

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If you have  the time and money, having a home built to your specifications is the surest way to get your needs met.  Locations of utilities, finish, etc. will be done to meet your needs. You also get a home that won't need a roof, new HVAC, etc. for 15-30 years.  So the initial investment of time and money does pay off in that way too.  Obviously this is not easy in a long developed city or suburban area, but if it is, it's my preference.  Not a whole lot more work than modifying an older house which was built/renovated to someone else's needs.

If it were up to me, I'd go with a new house. Depends of course on the land availability in the area you are looking but a 2000-2500 sq ft ranch with a full basement makes for a nice train room. Building new also would allow you to cluster all of the utilities in one corner so they are out of the way. A bathroom would be a must.

I agree that by the time you fix up even a move-in ready house to the CEO's liking, building new may be the better solution. Builders are hurting right now due to the high interest rates, you might get a good deal from someone with excess inventory that has new homes built already. I used to be a contractor in new home construction and after the market crash in the late '90's several of the developers we worked for lost many deposits and contracts for homes that were already under construction. Being in an existing development also saves on site improvements like roads, and utilities.

Good luck!

Bill, As someone who has recently moved from my lifelong home in New Jersey to my retirement home in Kentucky, I feel like I know your current situation. I too was very much interested in having what I thought were important features of our next home. After looking at many properties in several States we were able to find one which suited our needs perfectly.

As I have not had an actual layout in almost 20 years, planning for a large train layout, as well as a finished common area to relax in led us to purchase a Ranch Style home. A Ranch home with a full walkout basement would best suit our needs without major costly additions.  It also offers better access for later in life when mobility becomes more of an issue.

The Ranch style home with a basement, is like getting the same square footage as your living space, for a fraction of the cost per square foot. The house we found sits at the highest point on the property and offers a walkout glass entry and plenty of daylight which is a huge difference, as it doesn't feel like a basement. Water conditions, possibly flooding and sump pumps are all concerns that I have dealt with in my prior homes.

If you have the ability to do your own finishes, a unfinished basement is the way to go. Spend a few dollars and get the utilities grouped in an area where they will not affect your layout area. Tearing down finishes already in place will be like throwing money away. It also allows you to complete the work over time and use the space to best suit your personal needs. Having the layout room finished first will make it more comfortable in the long run, ask me how I know? 

I now have the luxury of a drop ceiling and believe me it is the way to go! Access is there when you need it, and dust and dirt are mostly eliminated. Adding track lighting or any other work is as easy as removing the panels, installing a wire or additional light fixtures, ceiling fan, outlets, speakers, cable TV etc. can be done at any time with little trouble.

As I will be spending more time in my future Train Room I wanted it to be as comfortable as possible. A separate utility room, storage room, and bathroom are all huge bonuses with the overall planning of the space available. Keep in mind the costs related to the finishing of a basement will most likely add value to your home.

For me it was important to have a balance of  space for "my wants" and the rest of the Family getting to enjoy the basement as well. Our basement now has a finished Family room with Pool table and entertaining area, spare guest bedroom suite, small office area, utility closet and "most importantly" space for a future 22' x 12' layout!  My layout will be open to the common areas and allow me to display my collection of Lionel Dealer items, posters and artwork that I have collected over the years. Train shelves under the layout will add to the finished look and should help with the overall appearance.

I am lucky enough to have a very understanding Wife of 30 years, who has been amazing with all of my hobbies and what goes along with each, Truly Blessed !   

Finding the next home is not easy, but knowing what you really want is the key to success!  Best wishes with your search, Rick

@CNJ Rick posted:

Bill, As someone who has recently moved from my lifelong home in New Jersey to my retirement home in Kentucky, I feel like I know your current situation. I too was very much interested in having what I thought were important features of our next home. After looking at many properties in several States we were able to find one which suited our needs perfectly.

As I have not had an actual layout in almost 20 years, planning for a large train layout, as well as a finished common area to relax in led us to purchase a Ranch Style home. A Ranch home with a full walkout basement would best suit our needs without major costly additions.  It also offers better access for later in life when mobility becomes more of an issue.

The Ranch style home with a basement, is like getting the same square footage as your living space, for a fraction of the cost per square foot. The house we found sits at the highest point on the property and offers a walkout glass entry and plenty of daylight which is a huge difference, as it doesn't feel like a basement. Water conditions, possibly flooding and sump pumps are all concerns that I have dealt with in my prior homes.

If you have the ability to do your own finishes, a unfinished basement is the way to go. Spend a few dollars and get the utilities grouped in an area where they will not affect your layout area. Tearing down finishes already in place will be like throwing money away. It also allows you to complete the work over time and use the space to best suit your personal needs. Having the layout room finished first will make it more comfortable in the long run, ask me how I know?

I now have the luxury of a drop ceiling and believe me it is the way to go! Access is there when you need it, and dust and dirt are mostly eliminated. Adding track lighting or any other work is as easy as removing the panels, installing a wire or additional light fixtures, ceiling fan, outlets, speakers, cable TV etc. can be done at any time with little trouble.

As I will be spending more time in my future Train Room I wanted it to be as comfortable as possible. A separate utility room, storage room, and bathroom are all huge bonuses with the overall planning of the space available. Keep in mind the costs related to the finishing of a basement will most likely add value to your home.

For me it was important to have a balance of  space for "my wants" and the rest of the Family getting to enjoy the basement as well. Our basement now has a finished Family room with Pool table and entertaining area, spare guest bedroom suite, small office area, utility closet and "most importantly" space for a future 22' x 12' layout!  My layout will be open to the common areas and allow me to display my collection of Lionel Dealer items, posters and artwork that I have collected over the years. Train shelves under the layout will add to the finished look and should help with the overall appearance.

I am lucky enough to have a very understanding Wife of 30 years, who has been amazing with all of my hobbies and what goes along with each, Truly Blessed !   

Finding the next home is not easy, but knowing what you really want is the key to success!  Best wishes with your search, Rick

well said

House hunting has to be one the most frustrating and exhausting human experiences. Our first priority was one floor living complete with accessible doorways and a shower. (This is my feet first house, because that’s how I’m leaving here.) To accommodate one floor “train rooming “, we did an addition to the back of the garage. Also, with train room design consider more than the usual amount of outlets; also, if feasible, some in the floor.

Happy hunting,

Jay

I believe all the commenters suggesting new construction are on the right track. I would expect building costs to double over the next 5-10 years.  Tradesmen are getting scarce and so wages will follow, lumber and other materials continue to increase. consider that with the cyclical increase in real estate values.

A new house, a remodeled house or an addition will most likely be as good an equity investment one can make.

Maybe the next house that you see that you like the location and the property consider going the value-added route.  Maybe an outbuilding or addition that works for trains but in the future could be, shop, guest suite, home office etc.

Just my thoughts.

kevin

When we moved into the current house it was agreed, wife and I, to have a dedicated train room in the basement because that would be a larger space than an upstairs bedroom. This was conditional on buying the house.

The basement and train room were designed around my layout. The room has drywall ceiling and can lights (now leds), textured drywall walls and thick carpet.  Adequate electrical outlets.  I like it. What ever design issues I had/have on the layout the room was laid out correctly, if I do say so my own darn self
What you may consider on your room is a pocket door(s) because there is no allowance needed for “swing”in or out. This worked out for me in locating the benchwork in the room.

Hope his helps.
Steven Taylor

Last edited by train steve

We have very few basements in California, but I have friends and family in the Midwest where basements are required for tornado protection. What I have heard is that the unfinished ceiling in the basement is intentional to enjoy a reduced property tax. As far as dust is concerned, the best solution is a high efficient air cleaner. One of my brothers-in-law runs a dehumidifier constantly in his basement during the summer... maybe someone makes a dehumidifier with a high efficient air cleaner attached?

I live in the Midwest and the basement unfinished ceiling reduces taxes is new to me.  I will have to look into that.  The basement in my current house is more damp in the summer than my previous house and I run a dehumidifier in the spring and summer and I will say it traps a lot of dust in its filter.

My layout has a finished ceiling over it but I do like the painted floor joist look.  The one thing about a finished ceiling, if you have a small leak the finished ceiling may catch it before your layout does but you also may not catch it as fast and you also have a much bigger project to repair unless you have something like a drop ceiling when you would just replace the tile or maybe pull it and paint it.

I agree with not being the biggest fan of carpet, especially in the basement but it does seem a little easier on the knees if you have a good pad under it, wither you are standing or crawling under a layout.

With all that said I agree with you, having a fresh slate of an unfinished basement would be more ideal than working around what someone else thought would be a good layout for a basement.  I am currently trying to work around that in our basement which was finished by the previous owner and you then inherite all the problems someone else covered up or finished in a poor manner.

@WP posted:

3019EEB2-D4C1-40A3-9AB3-5072E6C543A4Building a shed is the idea my wife thought of. We had a 12’ by 16’ shed built for us by a local lumber supply company. It is not huge, but it is large enough for us. Our layout is an around the wall plan and has two levels. It has a concrete floor, and we had the contractor put in plenty of electrical plugs. For us, this was a good solution.
I hope you find a solution that will work well for you. Good luck and have fun railroading!

That's exactly what I'm planning to do. I'd like to see a some photos of the layout and track plan so I can get some ideas for my own future layout.

Installing a dropped/suspended ceiling is a fairly easy DIY project that can be accomplished in a long weekend; is relatively inexpensive; and there are many different designer options available. It hides the ugly piping and wiring, eliminates any dirt, dust or debris from falling on the layout and typically brightens up the area. Clear/frosted panels allow for different lighting options. Most systems can be installed tight to any piping and only claim about 2" of floor to ceiling height - even less with some panels. In addition, ours have insulation on the reverse side and, in colder climates, helps insulate a cold basement from the living space above.



Just my $ .02

Yes, unfinished (beams and ducts exposed) ceiling even with insulated, drywalled walls, and carpet on the floor is still an "unfinished" basement in some locations. But it's not a hard and fast rule. Just depends on the county or municipality that sets the taxes. And the rules can change over time. Painting the "unfinished" ceiling black kind of makes it disappear -- it's an architectural trick sometimes used in fast casual restaurants and strip mall stores. Other colors are possible, too. Matte colors are usually preferred because you won't get odd reflections off of joists and ducts. Even if it doesn't make a difference on taxes, sometimes it's a desirable look because light fixtures can be dropped anywhere, and with few or no ceiling reflections, light tends to be projected exclusively downward or outward depending on the fixtures for more of a "stage lighting" effect. Sometimes that can be useful on a model railroad.

Drywall ceilings look the nicest, but they reflect more sound back into the room -- so track noise may be louder. They're also a lot worse for a mess if you have to open it back up for repairs. Drop ceilings give access to whatever is above, and they provide some sound absorption.

When I was house-hunting, (Or was it basement-hunting?) I looked for floorplans that spread out a bit. Ranches can be great, along with some "1 1/2 -story" houses with a partial upper floor that's inside the roof gable - most of the house is still spread out over a decently sized basement. Houses with the garage partly or fully underneath mean that the garage is intruding into the basement -- you may find there's not much real "basement" at all beyond what's taken up by the furnace and water heater area. Pre-finished basements that are broken up into exercise rooms and rec-room areas aren't always bad. With an around-the-walls layout, the wall separating the rooms can become a divider, with different scenery on both sides. An interior wall is usually easy to cut a hole through (if it's drywall or paneling) which can then be embellished with a tunnel portal for the train to go through to the other side.

@WP posted:

3019EEB2-D4C1-40A3-9AB3-5072E6C543A4Building a shed is the idea my wife thought of. We had a 12’ by 16’ shed built for us by a local lumber supply company. It is not huge, but it is large enough for us. Our layout is an around the wall plan and has two levels. It has a concrete floor, and we had the contractor put in plenty of electrical plugs. For us, this was a good solution.
I hope you find a solution that will work well for you. Good luck and have fun railroading!

Very nice ... especially for southern markets or the west coast (isn't that a palm tree in the background?).  For colder climates, you need insulated walls, a roof and a heat source.   But you could build it on a slab.  And I like that you can open it up in the summer months.   

If you connect a structure to your house, you then need a trench foundation for the floor and the cost goes up significantly.  I built a sunroom attached to my detached garage in my old house for my train room and loved it.  The garage was on a slab so my attached room was on a slab.  I ran a subpanel out there to power it and it served me well.  I added an electric toilet because I had no plumbing.

Basements for layouts need to be dry and have the best sump pump and back up you can find.  20-30 year old or newer basements typically have taller ceilings and are built with modern techniques -- have square and plumb construction with relatively smoothly poured concrete floors -- so they are easier to finish.  I would want a toilet or a basement plumbed for one as mentioned.  Building a new home is best, but I found it significantly more costly overall when you consider landscaping and driveway and all.

I put wall outlets in my current basement 24 inches high, skipped the drywall, used wall board instead with 2 x 4 horizontal backers between vertical studs, insulation, acoustic ceiling tiles and sound insulation between the drop ceiling and the upstairs.    I hung the ceiling lights before I built my tables so that I had good build lighting and good layout lighting.  I like dimmer switches.  Used floor tiles with water resistant glue and then put rugs on them for comfort and cushion if I drop anything.  I had 1 slight freak flood of 1 1/2 inches or so on the entire basement floor and even though it ruined some stuff I had on the floor, it did not require any reconstruction, no drywall got ruined (because I had none), and no water touched anything electrical. All my train stuff now is either above the floor or in plastic bins.

Good luck.  It's an exciting time for you.  You'll have a new canvas to paint your masterpiece.

Mike

Last edited by IRON HORSE

That's exactly what I'm planning to do. I'd like to see a some photos of the layout and track plan so I can get some ideas for my own future layout.

I will try to post some photos tomorrow. Meanwhile, here are a couple of rough (not exactly to scale) drawings of the lower and upper levels. The entrance to our train shed is at the bottom of each drawing. On the lower level, there is a lift out truss bridge.

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We have been looking at places to settle once we leave the peoples republic of new jersey.  All of the places we have visited are built on slabs so a basement is out.  Homes with a bonus room over the garage are much larger than we desire.  When the time comes it looks like a spare bedroom will be the only alternative.

@MattD87 posted:

Wow Bob. I live in CT, so I'm no stranger to hearing about high NY taxes, and we have high taxes as well, but I didn't think NY was that high

Matt

@necrails posted:

We have been looking at places to settle once we leave the peoples republic of new jersey.  All of the places we have visited are built on slabs so a basement is out.  Homes with a bonus room over the garage are much larger than we desire.  When the time comes it looks like a spare bedroom will be the only alternative.



See....I'm not makin' this stuff up....

https://www.foxnews.com/politi...rdensome-taxes-study

@necrails posted:

We have been looking at places to settle once we leave the peoples republic of new jersey.  All of the places we have visited are built on slabs so a basement is out.  Homes with a bonus room over the garage are much larger than we desire.  When the time comes it looks like a spare bedroom will be the only alternative.

Try on the other side of the bridge and venture to mid-state PA. Lancaster, Lebanon. Some good hobby shops and a 45” drive to York, and there’s no state tax on retirement income.

I think we've found a new layout room with a house & garage thrown in !  Our SD home sold in 1 day so we plan to move east to WV in May.   The new train room (12' x 22') is smaller than what I had here (8'x 32' in SD), but the smaller footprint may be a more manageable size for me.   Fall York is now a strong possibility !

Back to sorting & packing, ugh.

Rich

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