Should Lionel do a Second Run of Vision Line Big Boys?

Peter Araujo posted:

Next year, the Union Pacific Big Boy #4014 will be restored to operating condition. In order to celebrate, I thought I'd share this idea for Lionel about another Vision Line rerun, just like on the Challenger from this year. Both Coal and Oil fired versions.

My opinion would be YES, if they offered the later version/appearance of the UP 4000 class, i.e. NOT with those original air cooling coils on the pilot deck. Lionel went to great lengths to produce a Vision line model, then offered a version of which none of the 8 surviving 4000s look like today.

Another run of Big Boys??  Absolutely, I would buy 2!!

NO!!!!    They should do  another Vision Line hudson instead, but not one from 100 year old tooling.

This one is more worthy:

The Vision Big boy is still top dog IMO. The Niagara is cool, but even with some extra smoke features doesn't compare for me. I'd buy an excursion #4014 in a heartbeat. 

While I would probably buy a 4014 with oil tender/ modern excursion. I would rather go with RickO suggestion. I would buy two scale NYC Hudson’s.

Blue Streak posted:

While I would probably buy a 4014 with oil tender/ modern excursion. I would rather go with RickO suggestion. I would buy two scale NYC Hudson’s.

I bet they could just do that J3a Hudson in Standard O-Scale.

You’ll get fifty responses to you post and fifty different engines people want re-issued. I would love Lionel to redo the B&A Berkshire but green with whistle steam.

superwarp1 posted:

You’ll get fifty responses to you post and fifty different engines people want re-issued. I would love Lionel to redo the B&A Berkshire but green with whistle steam.

There's no whistle detail on that model or the K Line version for that matter so no whistle steam as Lionel doesn't deviate from original tooling.

I don't think the swinging bell mechanism would work with the offset bell of the B&A berk either.

So....... that 50th anniversary j3a I posted is the way to go. They could offer it with a choice of tenders like the ESE hudsons.

I'd like to see a rerun of Vision Big Boys, but my question is: if they would make oil-fired versions as well as coal-fired, and the coal-fired engines had depleting coal loads like the last run, what would the oil-fired engines have? Just a different tender tooling and that's it?

Half of me says “yes”, 9/16th of me says “no way” given the last 20 threads on this forum. 

No for the Big Boy and yes for J3A Hudson.

Let's see, the retail on the last Vision Line Big Boys was $2999.99 or somewhere near that.

Pre-orders will be easy to get I am sure.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

No, do a reissue of the lionmaster big boy and AC12

My biggest regret, was not buying more of the first run!

Put me down for 2! 

TrainMan1225 posted:

I'd like to see a rerun of Vision Big Boys, but my question is: if they would make oil-fired versions as well as coal-fired, and the coal-fired engines had depleting coal loads like the last run, what would the oil-fired engines have?

Nothing visible, just the top of the oil bunker inserted in the coal space of the tender. There is no way to see the oil level drop as fuel is being used.

Just a different tender tooling and that's it?

Should be more than that, as the engine firebox would not have any ash pans nor that big ash hopper underneath. Also, no stoker details.

Neat idea, but I hope the what-if greyhound version won't end up looking like...

 

The new engines will need a ten-year warranty with paid return shipping, and an individual Service Hot-line.  

And don't forget the assembly instructions and glue to fix all the broken off parts in the bottom of the box!

Why?

I originally was not going to post to this topic since I normally don't post "no" to this type of question.  A second run updated to their late physical appearance to celebrate #4014 seems like it would sell, considering all the Big Boy lovers.  A non Vision Line engine might sell better.

I personally would like to see Lionel go back to the original concept of the Vision Line to introduce engines not previously massed produced and with all/mostly all new tooling.  It seems like the high cost of a VL engine would pay for new tooling.

I don't even know if Lionel still has the tooling for the unstreamlined J3a Hudson. One replacement parts page said, "Available from North Lima Trainworks", and the other, "Unavailable".

@Dave Olson , Also, I'd like to confirm the whistle for the new Vision Line Challengers. Re-hash of the Lionmaster/2010 Vision Challengers, or 2014 Vision Big Boy whistle? They use the Vision Line Big Boy whistle in everything these days. I hope it's the Challenger whistle, though.

the next vision line Lionel is suppose to be the challenger!

A rebuild sure, but not as another Vision Line.  Like stated above, use VL to come out with new features, not releases.

I think An excursion version of the 4014 would be a huge seller, I didn’t get a big boy 1st time around. I would be in for 1.

They cost as much as a good running used car.

RickO posted:

NO!!!!    They should do  another Vision Line hudson instead, but not one from 100 year old tooling.

This one is more worthy:

 

                           

I agree 100%.... this one is a no brainer. How has it not yet happened???

I would buy a second one if they did the 4014 in the soon to be completed Oil tender version.

After listing to the 2019 V1 podcast with Ryan K from Lionel, he seemed to strongly suggest this will make a return in V2 to celibate the festivities around the 150th.  

Ben

NotInWI posted:

After listing to the 2019 V1 podcast with Ryan K from Lionel, he seemed to strongly suggest this will make a return in V2 to celibate the festivities around the 150th.  

Ben

That's great news Ben.. They should do a second run... they're very desirable engines...

I would buy the 4014 with oil tender!

But then I have to build a new place to run it. Limited to O60 curves right now.

Bulldog_65 posted:

I would buy the 4014 with oil tender!

I'm sure that a lot of people would, but all should hope that Lionel reworks the front end so that the model actually LOOKS like the real 4014. Someone should point out to the folks at Lionel that any future models of UP 4000 class locomotives need to represent the locomotives after modifications, especially to the front, completed by 1947. In other words, do NOT offer another "as delivered" UP 4000!

But then I have to build a new place to run it. Limited to O60 curves right now.

Hot Water posted:

Bulldog_65 posted:

I would buy the 4014 with oil tender!

I'm sure that a lot of people would, but all should hope that Lionel reworks the front end so that the model actually LOOKS like the real 4014. Someone should point out to the folks at Lionel that any future models of UP 4000 class locomotives need to represent the locomotives after modifications, especially to the front, completed by 1947. In other words, do NOT offer another "as delivered" UP 4000!

But then I have to build a new place to run it. Limited to O60 curves right now.

 

I think they know this.  The first run of JLC big boys had these radiators removed for the later as deliverd cab numbers...

The first 19 had these radiators as delivered.  I think in 44 they took them off the first 19 when the last 5 were delivered...

I am old.  I might have the year off but i thought it was 44.  Anyway the lionel tooling makes both the as delivered first 19 and the as delivered last 5...  as for those coolers...

Super O Bob posted:

Hot Water posted:

Bulldog_65 posted:

I would buy the 4014 with oil tender!

I'm sure that a lot of people would, but all should hope that Lionel reworks the front end so that the model actually LOOKS like the real 4014. Someone should point out to the folks at Lionel that any future models of UP 4000 class locomotives need to represent the locomotives after modifications, especially to the front, completed by 1947. In other words, do NOT offer another "as delivered" UP 4000!

But then I have to build a new place to run it. Limited to O60 curves right now.

 

I think they know this.  The first run of JLC big boys had these radiators removed for the later as deliverd cab numbers...

The first 19 had these radiators as delivered.  I think in 44 they took them off the first 19 when the last 5 were delivered...

You are absolutely correct. Which begs the question; Why did Lionel produce models of 7 of the 8 real UP 4000s, that are still on display, yet offer a very expensive Vision Line model of the "as delivered" version, instead of how all 7 of those specific road numbers look today?

Ok tooling is paid for.

So..the price should be about.. 50.00 to 75.00 dollars. I'm in for that price...

Hot Water posted:

Super O Bob posted:

Hot Water posted:

Bulldog_65 posted:

I would buy the 4014 with oil tender!

I'm sure that a lot of people would, but all should hope that Lionel reworks the front end so that the model actually LOOKS like the real 4014. Someone should point out to the folks at Lionel that any future models of UP 4000 class locomotives need to represent the locomotives after modifications, especially to the front, completed by 1947. In other words, do NOT offer another "as delivered" UP 4000!

But then I have to build a new place to run it. Limited to O60 curves right now.

 

I think they know this.  The first run of JLC big boys had these radiators removed for the later as deliverd cab numbers...

The first 19 had these radiators as delivered.  I think in 44 they took them off the first 19 when the last 5 were delivered...

You are absolutely correct. Which begs the question; Why did Lionel produce models of 7 of the 8 real UP 4000s, that are still on display, yet offer a very expensive Vision Line model of the "as delivered" version, instead of how all 7 of those specific road numbers look today?

I dont know, because i wanted some of each batch...  but they chose as delivered of each survivor...  i recall them saying they will be in as delivered because the 4004 at york they demo'ed didnt have the radiators on the handrails and they were saying they will be on the production engines.

I hope they do more vision big boys, but would like different numbers...  i dont want more of the same engines...

Testing my memory, i think these are the cab numbers on this good tooling:

Vision: 4004, 4005, 4006, 4012, 4014, 4017, 4018

JLC: 4012, 4014, 4023, 4024

So i want to see different numbers (not survivors)...  and then a special 4014 as it will appear with oil tender next year...

No absolutely NOT!

They can sell the Oil tender separately for the 4014 oil fuel version.

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

No absolutely NOT!

They can sell the Oil tender separately for the 4014 oil fuel version.

No, that would not be correct for how 4014 looks today. All the first 19 4000 class locomotives were up-grade, in about 1946 with the air cooling radiator, instead of all those rows of pipes on the front pilot. Therefor, in order for Lionel to issue a correct model for how #4014 looks today, much more would be involved than simply adding an oil tender.

Im with hotwater on this...  we already have 2 issues of 4014 from lionel with coal tenders as delivered.  I would buy a 4014 as it will be next year...

To refine my YES, I would buy 2 if there was a range of road numbers, maybe 4014, 4012, 4004, 4017, 4018, to choose from.