Sid’s CV Hudson ( a collaboration project!) Tales from Harmon Shops

As Pat has said this is going to be the greatest CV in the planet in 3 rail o scale. I am very happy with Pat's work so far. Amazing work with the whistle and the stripping for painting. Way beyond anything I could ever do. Now what will make this the best CV ever will be the combination of Pat's craftsmanship and paint work combined with my electronic work. I am going to be installing Legacy with whistle steam in this locomotive. It is going to amazing when complete. Can't wait to see more.

Thanks Pat

Sid

Ok, ill bite... what does CV stand for? When I see CV I immediately think Central Vermont RR. Am I correct or am I missing something?

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Ok, ill bite... what does CV stand for? When I see CV I immediately think Central Vermont RR. Am I correct or am I missing something?

Commodore Vanderbilt

Thanks for the clarification. So far the job looks great.

Hey Harmonshops, please check your email if you get a chance. Thank you.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Thanks for the clarification. So far the job looks great.

Hey Harmonshops, please check your email if you get a chance. Thank you.

Got it,..

Pat

Since today was such a pretty day to paint,…I went ahead and shot the paint on Sid’s boiler shell…..after blasting and washing, the shell was abated with scotchbrite, soap and water. I do not believe in painting over blasted metal,..but that’s my belief, y’all’s results are yours,….I’m a firm believer in an abated surface for materials to have a place to bite onto,…..so here’s my take on what I believe the correct color for a CV Hudson should be,….I’ve worked closely with my DuPont rep to come up with this formula,…this is no rattle can job, this is a urethane finish sprayed from a gun,…the pics may not be in order,…but I’ve tried to take pics in the best light this old IPad will do,…for comparison, Sid’s shell is sat next to the grossly wrong silver model ,……The top coat color is spayed over a light black base to convey the color I’m looking for ,…..it’s obviously darker than the silver model by Lionel, but just a wee bit lighter than the dark charcoal model that they did after the bright silver ……now to watch paint dry, and get on to something else,..😉

Pat

What kind of upgrades is the fox body Mustang in for? Don't tell me five lug conversion because it already has it.

Looks fantastic!

@Randy_B posted:

What kind of upgrades is the fox body Mustang in for? Don't tell me five lug conversion because it already has it.

That notchback in the picture is a disaster area going to a place to happen,….which is a shame, cause it is a solid car, just too many hands have touched it, and the owner can’t afford to do the correct work to it,…..unfortunately, it’s in the outgoing mailbox, he’ll find someone else to continue hacking the car to death,….not me, do it right or get it out of my sight,..😉

Pat

@Randy_B posted:

What kind of upgrades is the fox body Mustang in for? Don't tell me five lug conversion because it already has it.

This is the kind of work we do on a daily basis,…clean & accurate,..😉

Pat

Interesting. A carbureted pushrod small block in place of the modular 3V!

@Randy_B posted:

Interesting. A pushrod small block in place of the modular 3V!

Look again Randy,….that’s an awfully big small block,…🤣🤣🤣

Pat

Oh you're right. Is that a Cleveland in there or a big block? I'm mostly familiar with the EFI five liters and the modulars that came after them.

@Randy_B posted:

Oh you're right. Is that a Cleveland in there or a big block? I'm mostly familiar with the EFI five liters and the modulars that came after them.

We’d better stop there on this thread buddy, the cops are gonna get us,…but it’s just to convey custom work can be done neat & clean, just like the trains,….

it is indeed a true 429 big block DOVE engine from a Torino Cobra ☺️

Pat

Nice. Anemic modular bore spacing got a big boost there. Nice work and looks really clean. Thanks for not putting V-belts on it!

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

The car looks great!!  Back to the regularly scheduled program.

The repair and paint on Sid's CV looks fantastic!  As Sid wrote, I can't paint that well either.   As we talked, I know you have another engine that needs a repaint.  The CV looks fantastic compared to the lightly weathered Hudson.   

That first paint picture the shell looks black, but I suppose it is just the lighting and contrast, because after that it looks like a dark metallic grey.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

That first paint picture the shell looks black, but I suppose it is just the lighting and contrast, because after that it looks like a dark metallic grey.

Dave, …the pic you’re referring to is indeed black,…I laid down a black base coat before applying the top color coat, doing so yields a darker looking top coat. When my paint rep and I discussed painting the model, we both agreed working on thin black base, would result in a much finer finish, less color application, and thus less details get obliterated by thick paint,….a little painting magic 101 ,….😉

Pat

Looking really good so far guys, i'm looking forward to seeing this all come together !

Alex

@harmonyards posted:

Dave, …the pic you’re referring to is indeed black,…I laid down a black base coat before applying the top color coat, doing so yields a darker looking top coat. When my paint rep and I discussed painting the model, we both agreed working on thin black base, would result in a much finer finish, less color application, and thus less details get obliterated by thick paint,….a little painting magic 101 ,….😉

Pat

I had heard something somewhere about painting to use certain color choices for whatever the end result would be. Of course I don't even remember what I saw that on, just knew that it was painting either figures, scenery, or some other such thing related to details of models.

Pat that looks great! Shoulda just sent you my cv shell to spray!

That looks great!  I have a second shell that I need to swap onto my frame, that I put all my work into.

This in-depth look into additional details should help too... https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...mmodore-vanderbilt-1

When you reattach the front plaque, it needs to be up higher than the original location that Lionel location...

If you look at where the stock plaque is, and some google photos, you can see that it's up higher closer to the smokebox access hatch.

Here's where I put mine (all pictures below my own).

Don't forget the scale pilot truck and add brake beams.

ATS shoe on the tender truck...

Cold water feed pump on fireman's side...

Keep up the great work!

(Yes, I still have to swap the shell... I know.)

@CentralFan1976 …I plan on doing pretty much the same upgrades you did on yours,…I’ve studied your thread numerous times…..you did beautiful work on yours,….hopefully I can keep up the mojo!..😉

Pat

@Dennis Holler posted:

Pat that looks great! Shoulda just sent you my cv shell to spray!

Dennis, I still need to shoot Sid’s tender,…hurry up and strip them down and get me your shells,…😉…I can paint them all at once,…

Pat

A little more progress on Sid’s CV paint work….I went ahead and knocked out the delicate stripe work….we’ll let this cure up, and then it’s time for lettering,…I’m liking what I’m seeing,..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

A little more progress on Sid’s CV paint work….I went ahead and knocked out the delicate stripe work….we’ll let this cure up, and then it’s time for lettering,…I’m liking what I’m seeing,..

Pat

That is no joke. That is better than factory. Great work Pat. Outstanding!!

The stripes look perfect!

@Mark Boyce posted:

The stripes look perfect!

Thanks Mark!

Pat

That is some dang great metallic color there Pat. Bravo!

Sid’s CV chassis is ready for some testing now, ….the cat will be out of the bag for those who know what you’re looking at. Sid’s going full Legacy, so I’ve been tasked to fit the encoder & ring flywheel in an already tight confine, and make it serviceable…..the flywheel is a one off scratch built unit, and naturally, I like high polished parts to showcase the efforts, The new driveshaft is double jointed slip yolk design, again, custom fitted to Sid’s application,….I’ve also tuned in the gearbox by arranging the shim packs for optimum performance,……everything fits neatly in the CV’s shell,….probably the worst part of the job is cleaning out all that nasty, dried up hard as rocks grease ….yuk!..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Sid’s CV chassis is ready for some testing now, ….the cat will be out of the bag for those who know what you’re looking at. Sid’s going full Legacy, so I’ve been tasked to fit the encoder & ring flywheel in an already tight confine, and make it serviceable…..the flywheel is a one off scratch built unit, and naturally, I like high polished parts to showcase the efforts, The new driveshaft is double jointed slip yolk design, again, custom fitted to Sid’s application,….I’ve also tuned in the gearbox by arranging the shim packs for optimum performance,……everything fits neatly in the CV’s shell,….probably the worst part of the job is cleaning out all that nasty, dried up hard as rocks grease ….yuk!..

Pat

That looks outstanding. Can't wait to put my electronics into it.

Looks great, Pat!!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Looks great, Pat!!!

Thanks Mark, ….Sid will be able to pull stumps out of the ground with this Hudson,…..😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Thanks Mark, ….Sid will be able to pull stumps out of the ground with this Hudson,…..😉

Pat

👍🏻👍🏻

This is why some of us go bizerk building this stuff,…..keep in mind this engine started out as a Pulmor growler, with the added Pittman and tuned gear box, this is what we now have,……result!!…this means speed step 1 will be nice and smooth when Sid adds his electronics!..

Pat

Love it.

@CentralFan1976 posted:

Love it.

Hopefully you’ll approve of this …..your attention to detail on the CV you’ve built, has pushed me to do an equally good job,…..here’s a sneak peak on how things are shaping up,……note we spent quite a bit of time working on the correct lettering size, spacing, and coloring true to the CV prototype,……I’ll be adding some further details as you’ve pointed out, and some advise from Pete as he’s my go-to for all things NYC ( I never claimed to know it all ) …let the opinions fly!….let’s have some fun,….for a change,…😉

Pat

It’s a great looking engine!  I’m sure you are doing everything the way Pete recommends.

That sure looks......... EXCELLENT! Holy Toledo, that is one heck of an engine in the making. Hmm, somewhere upstairs there's two of mine. Well, it'll have to wait for now, but in the future.

The gearing as found in this era of Lionel scale steamer is well suited to remotoring upgrades, desirous in today's operational norms.  Tolerances in the worm drive allow smooth free wheeling characteristics, given the can motor isn't prone to stiff cogging.  No more parking on inclines!  😊

Bruce

Ok boys & girls, an update on Sid’s CV project,…he’s officially out of paint, …..I have to thank my graphics guy Graham Davis for this incredible lettering work he does, and he did the assist on the tender striping,…..that was a bear and very delicate!….if y’all NYC aficionados would critique the work, I’d be more than happy to hear your thoughts, ….this locomotive we believe is as accurate as can be made from this diecast model,….reference page 241 ( lower picture ) of Alvin Stauffer & Edward May’s book “ Thoroughbreds” ….time to hang the gingerbread back on her and see what we got,…we just finished the tender tonight, and wanted to show the “sneak peek” of what we see!….I’m loving it!!

Pat

It looks great!!!

Oh, the tender striping is at the top and the bottom of the tender. That took way too long for me to see Pat. I guess it has been a long day for me running around that my eyes played sleepy on me and weren't focusing like they should. That striping is dang great though. What a beauty.

@Mark Boyce posted:

It looks great!!!

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Oh, the tender striping is at the top and the bottom of the tender. That took way too long for me to see Pat. I guess it has been a long day for me running around that my eyes played sleepy on me and weren't focusing like they should. That striping is dang great though. What a beauty.

Dave & Mark,…thanks for the kind comments,….a few noteworthy points about Sid’s paint job on his CV,….as most of y’all know, this is not a rattle can job, I worked with my DuPont rep and members of the NYCHS to develop what popular consensus amongst  NYC modelers thought the correct shade should be of the CV Hudson,….obviously when Lionel offered the first run of the CV in 96 they missed it by a country mile, then, when they reissued it in a darker shade, most NYC purists felt they went too far,….interesting discussions with society members, and other NYC gurus was a rumor that Lionel used the Vandy colors for the basis of their gunmetal colored standard gauge locomotives….rumors of course, with no way to verify…….anyways, my paint rep really enjoys these “ special projects “ I toss at him because it’s different from the mundane match this Toyota or match that Ford,….so he gets a kick out of doing these jobs,….we went trough a few mixes before settling on this color by popular vote,….and even before I submitted the pics on here, I asked one of our resident NYC gurus ( Pete ) what he thought,…so with his final approval we moved forward,…..my graphics guy studied the lettering on many prototype pics, and after a few proofs, he nailed it……so you see, there’s a lot more to these projects then hoping for close enough,……we have the backing & blessing of some of the brightest minds when it comes to NYC preservation and accuracy,…..neat stuff to research….not sure if I had mentioned all of this when I began the thread,…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Dave & Mark,…thanks for the kind comments,….a few noteworthy points about Sid’s paint job on his CV,….as most of y’all know, this is not a rattle can job, I worked with my DuPont rep and members of the NYCHS to develop what popular consensus amongst  NYC modelers thought the correct shade should be of the CV Hudson,….obviously when Lionel offered the first run of the CV in 96 they missed it by a country mile, then, when they reissued it in a darker shade, most NYC purists felt they went too far,….interesting discussions with society members, and other NYC gurus was a rumor that Lionel used the Vandy colors for the basis of their gunmetal colored standard gauge locomotives….rumors of course, with no way to verify…….anyways, my paint rep really enjoys these “ special projects “ I toss at him because it’s different from the mundane match this Toyota or match that Ford,….so he gets a kick out of doing these jobs,….we went trough a few mixes before settling on this color by popular vote,….and even before I submitted the pics on here, I asked one of our resident NYC gurus ( Pete ) what he thought,…so with his final approval we moved forward,…..my graphics guy studied the lettering on many prototype pics, and after a few proofs, he nailed it……so you see, there’s a lot more to these projects then hoping for close enough,……we have the backing & blessing of some of the brightest minds when it comes to NYC preservation and accuracy,…..neat stuff to research….not sure if I had mentioned all of this when I began the thread,…

Pat

Pat, I believe that you may have hinted a bit on a few things from the start, but as with any journey, you have to let your feet get out in front of you so you can walk. We have all seen the jobs you have worked on, and the seriousness of what you do(not try, do or do not you know as Yoda says). This is your work, your thing.

I know when I built my cherry table in Mr. Brenner's(Hope I spelled his name right) wood shop class(furniture and cabinet making), I really took that project seriously. I had wanted to make something worthy of stuff I admired. I still have that table, my mother loved it so and was amazed her son could make something like that.

I know that with the projects I want done that I send your way, are in excellent hands. I know Mark will agree as well as anyone else that has seen your work.

Absolutely spectacular Pat. A paint job worthy of the mechanicals under the hood!

A great team effort.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I know when I built my cherry table in Mr. Brenner's(Hope I spelled his name right) wood shop class(furniture and cabinet making), I really took that project seriously. I had wanted to make something worthy of stuff I admired. I still have that table, my mother loved it so and was amazed her son could make something like that.

Mine was Mr. O'Neill... I built a custom dry-sink/ server for my mother when I was in HS (41 years ago...ouch!). I started with a picture in a catalog of what she wanted and designed it from the ground up. She still has the piece in her living room.

Bob

"I’m liking what I’m seeing,..", you and me both Pat.  Another excellent shopping by Harmon Yard.

Here's a question for you all...and if I'm missing something here, I apologize.

If I'm reading this correctly, now that this model is both running great and looking great, it's going to have to be disassembled again to upgrade the electronics?

I thought that typically, painting is the final step in the process; all the mechanical/electrical stuff happens first...?

Not in any way a criticism, just wondering. 

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

Here's a question for you all...and if I'm missing something here, I apologize.

If I'm reading this correctly, now that this model is both running great and looking great, it's going to have to be disassembled again to upgrade the electronics?

I thought that typically, painting is the final step in the process; all the mechanical/electrical stuff happens first...?

Not in any way a criticism, just wondering. 

Mark in Oregon

Mark, ….I’ll explain ….it’s built to be disassembled and reassembled as many times as needed, once Sid gets it back, he can unbolt the shells, and carefully set them aside while he does his electrical craftsmanship,….Sid’s no slouch, he’s done bunches of upgrades, so I’m 100% confident he’s got this down to a science,…also, everything that was needed to be drilled, tapped, or altered in anyway has already been done fitted, and finished before painting,….so pretty much the last thing to do is to set the finished shells back on,….hope that makes sense…..

Pat

…

My hats off to you, all. Well done.

When I applied my front plaque, I drilled a hole in the shell to get more surface area for the adhesive, making it more of a rivet than just surface to surface contact. Good to see you pulled off the lion plaque on the cab side as well.

Just in case you didn’t see it, this document from the NYCSHS has a lot of detail pictures as well, especially on the nose plaque location.

https://nycshs.files.wordpress...ages-from-1981q3.pdf

It may be easier to send you mine for repaint instead of swapping the shells!

thanks,

- Mario

@CentralFan1976 posted:

My hats off to you, all. Well done.

When I applied my front plaque, I drilled a hole in the shell to get more surface area for the adhesive, making it more of a rivet than just surface to surface contact. Good to see you pulled off the lion plaque on the cab side as well.

Just in case you didn’t see it, this document from the NYCSHS has a lot of detail pictures as well, especially on the nose plaque location.

https://nycshs.files.wordpress...ages-from-1981q3.pdf

It may be easier to send you mine for repaint instead of swapping the shells!

thanks,

- Mario

Mario, …it’s expensive stuff, but I have access to panel bonder from my shop,…this is the stuff we glue sheet metal together with,…..and airplanes are held together with,…when applied, you’ll need a sledge hammer to get it off,…..but good idea on drilling a hole to allow trapped ooze,….when I finally get this thing together, you’re one of the fellows I’d really like to hear feedback from,….your CV is outstanding,…

Pat

You made me dig out my CV. I’ll pack it up to send it to you for painting!

it’s probably easier than trying to swap shells since I’ve made some many mods. Would you take the dark gray shells in trade?

@CentralFan1976 posted:

You made me dig out my CV. I’ll pack it up to send it to you for painting!

it’s probably easier than trying to swap shells since I’ve made some many mods. Would you take the dark gray shells in trade?

We can work something out Mario, …shoot me an email, we’ll go from there,..

Pat

Mario how did you set the CV up so that it didn't move in your video?

@coach joe posted:

Mario how did you set the CV up so that it didn't move in your video?

Crappy track work. 🤣

I can’t run this at home, only at the club.

@CentralFan1976 posted:

Crappy track work. 🤣

I can’t run this at home, only at the club.

Dang, I thought it was like the big Pennsy monster at the World's Fair!

@harmonyards posted:

We can work something out Mario, …shoot me an email, we’ll go from there,..

Pat

You guys have rekindled something in me that I haven't felt in a long time, and I am super stoked about this.

Thank you so much!

- Mario

@CentralFan1976 posted:

You guys have rekindled something in me that I haven't felt in a long time, and I am super stoked about this.

Thank you so much!

- Mario

That's a good thing. In a couple of weeks I'll have to get with Pat on my two CV's to send to him. That's after York I'll chat on that. Until then I get to enjoy seeing the worn here.

@harmonyards posted:

Ok boys & girls, an update on Sid’s CV project,…he’s officially out of paint, …..I have to thank my graphics guy Graham Davis for this incredible lettering work he does, and he did the assist on the tender striping,…..that was a bear and very delicate!….if y’all NYC aficionados would critique the work, I’d be more than happy to hear your thoughts, ….this locomotive we believe is as accurate as can be made from this diecast model,….reference page 241 ( lower picture ) of Alvin Stauffer & Edward May’s book “ Thoroughbreds” ….time to hang the gingerbread back on her and see what we got,…we just finished the tender tonight, and wanted to show the “sneak peek” of what we see!….I’m loving it!!

Pat

So, I’m interested in knowing how this color came about?  It looks more “correct” (aka darker) than the Lionel dark gray version, as I interpret the prototype photos as a glossy, near black.

thanks!

- Mario

I've always liked this photo

@harmonyards posted:

Dave & Mark,…thanks for the kind comments,….a few noteworthy points about Sid’s paint job on his CV,….as most of y’all know, this is not a rattle can job, I worked with my DuPont rep and members of the NYCHS to develop what popular consensus amongst  NYC modelers thought the correct shade should be of the CV Hudson,….obviously when Lionel offered the first run of the CV in 96 they missed it by a country mile, then, when they reissued it in a darker shade, most NYC purists felt they went too far,….interesting discussions with society members, and other NYC gurus was a rumor that Lionel used the Vandy colors for the basis of their gunmetal colored standard gauge locomotives….rumors of course, with no way to verify…….anyways, my paint rep really enjoys these “ special projects “ I toss at him because it’s different from the mundane match this Toyota or match that Ford,….so he gets a kick out of doing these jobs,….we went trough a few mixes before settling on this color by popular vote,….and even before I submitted the pics on here, I asked one of our resident NYC gurus ( Pete ) what he thought,…so with his final approval we moved forward,…..my graphics guy studied the lettering on many prototype pics, and after a few proofs, he nailed it……so you see, there’s a lot more to these projects then hoping for close enough,……we have the backing & blessing of some of the brightest minds when it comes to NYC preservation and accuracy,…..neat stuff to research….not sure if I had mentioned all of this when I began the thread,…

Pat

Pat, that CV looks great.    Can you please contact me about the Jinty bushings?

Thank you

@CentralFan1976 posted:

So, I’m interested in knowing how this color came about?  It looks more “correct” (aka darker) than the Lionel dark gray version, as I interpret the prototype photos as a glossy, near black.

thanks!

- Mario

Pat answered that here I thought.

@harmonyards posted:

Dave & Mark,…thanks for the kind comments,….a few noteworthy points about Sid’s paint job on his CV,….as most of y’all know, this is not a rattle can job, I worked with my DuPont rep and members of the NYCHS to develop what popular consensus amongst  NYC modelers thought the correct shade should be of the CV Hudson,….obviously when Lionel offered the first run of the CV in 96 they missed it by a country mile, then, when they reissued it in a darker shade, most NYC purists felt they went too far,….interesting discussions with society members, and other NYC gurus was a rumor that Lionel used the Vandy colors for the basis of their gunmetal colored standard gauge locomotives….rumors of course, with no way to verify…….anyways, my paint rep really enjoys these “ special projects “ I toss at him because it’s different from the mundane match this Toyota or match that Ford,….so he gets a kick out of doing these jobs,….we went trough a few mixes before settling on this color by popular vote,….and even before I submitted the pics on here, I asked one of our resident NYC gurus ( Pete ) what he thought,…so with his final approval we moved forward,…..my graphics guy studied the lettering on many prototype pics, and after a few proofs, he nailed it……so you see, there’s a lot more to these projects then hoping for close enough,……we have the backing & blessing of some of the brightest minds when it comes to NYC preservation and accuracy,…..neat stuff to research….not sure if I had mentioned all of this when I began the thread,…

Pat

At least it sounds like it in my book.

@jhz563 posted:

Pat, that CV looks great.    Can you please contact me about the Jinty bushings?

Thank you

Yes,….John, shoot me a message to remind me,….again,….they’re ready,..

Pat

Thanks team, totally missed that whole conversation?

It happens Mario. Several posts I have followed I found myself days and pages behind because they were so active.

My thoughts concerning my "Silver" CV may turn into a paint job seeing how much of a great looking engine Sid's has turned out to be. While the silver may stand out on a layout, I think the dark iron horse may be a better stand out. Having both Lionel CV's it would be extremely interesting to see both side by side once all the stuff would be done with them as well as how they look opposite each other.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

It happens Mario. Several posts I have followed I found myself days and pages behind because they were so active.

My thoughts concerning my "Silver" CV may turn into a paint job seeing how much of a great looking engine Sid's has turned out to be. While the silver may stand out on a layout, I think the dark iron horse may be a better stand out. Having both Lionel CV's it would be extremely interesting to see both side by side once all the stuff would be done with them as well as how they look opposite each other.

I'm with you, I pick up another silver one because they're less expensive and easy to upgrade to a can motor, like I did from Timko, but don't think I'd wild like I did with this one.  No inspection lights, chuff generator, super chuffer or fan driven smoke unit; stock TMCC with the stock puffing smoke and just a big speaker.

I am not kidding that I am excited about this!  I have been in a modern "funk" for a while now, with both 2nd gen NYC diesels and *GULP* Amtrak.  This has rekindled my love for both the NYC steam and running a nice NYC passenger train.  With that said, there's good news, @harmonyards can help us with that, as when he finishes painting he can put them side by side with a factory painted Lionel dark gray version...

Photos below my own... Lionel factory painted dark gray  

Thanks!

- Mario

I've never been a fan of the bathtub Hudsons.  I wouldn't even take one if given for free  But, that is incredible work on that engine.  So true artist/modelers on this forum.

@superwarp1 posted:

I've never been a fan of the bathtub Hudsons.  I wouldn't even take one if given for free  But, that is incredible work on that engine.  So true artist/modelers on this forum.

Maybe when I put legacy in this one you will 😉. Good paint, sounds, and features go a long way.

Popular consensus among NYCHS members that I’ve had round table discussions with, feel the color we’ve come up with is as close as correct can be without being there,…..many many topics about this very discussion,…..this was not something I sent them pictures of, I physically put the sample in their hands, then waited for feedback,….Sid’s is actually the 3rd CV I’ve done …the others are outside the forum,….The consensus concerning the light silver CV is obviously too light, and when the big L reissued it, they went too far ( the darker model) …..anyways, this ain’t some color I just dreamt up, there’s a bit of research, and effort that went into it,….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Popular consensus among NYCHS members that I’ve had round table discussions with, feel the color we’ve come up with is as close as correct can be without being there,…..many many topics about this very discussion,…..this was not something I sent them pictures of, I physically put the sample in their hands, then waited for feedback,….Sid’s is actually the 3rd CV I’ve done …the others are outside the forum,….The consensus concerning the light silver CV is obviously too light, and when the big L reissued it, they went too far ( the darker model) …..anyways, this ain’t some color I just dreamt up, there’s a bit of research, and effort that went into it,….

Pat

I really like the color. I do remember when the second CV came out, my original train store had referred to it as "black Hudson" since it looked so dark. I had originally thought it was black until I got a closer look(so long ago). If anything is made to us abundantly clear Pat, it's that you just don't say "well, it smokes like an engine, looks like an engine, it must be a New York Central Hudson".

The amount of time put into your research pays dividends which is why people come to you for your work. I know things will be as close to can be if not on the mark for what it means to be New York Central.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I really like the color. I do remember when the second CV came out, my original train store had referred to it as "black Hudson" since it looked so dark. I had originally thought it was black until I got a closer look(so long ago). If anything is made to us abundantly clear Pat, it's that you just don't say "well, it smokes like an engine, looks like an engine, it must be a New York Central Hudson".

The amount of time put into your research pays dividends which is why people come to you for your work. I know things will be as close to can be if not on the mark for what it means to be New York Central.

Thanks Dave, …after all the back & forth with the coloring n these CV’s, I found it best to surround myself with talented NYC modelers from the society.  Those that discussed the project with me, were all in agreement,…..believe me, it took a couple samples to get there,…..it wasn’t a home run off the bat,…I popped a couple  foul balls before we swung for the fences,….😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Thanks Dave, …after all the back & forth with the coloring n these CV’s, I found it best to surround myself with talented NYC modelers from the society.  Those that discussed the project with me, were all in agreement,…..believe me, it took a couple samples to get there,…..it wasn’t a home run off the bat,…I popped a couple  foul balls before we swung for the fences,….😉

Pat

I can only imagine. I do recall Ryan had told me at York one of the times about matching paint from one of the engines. I can't recall what exact engine it was but remember someone criticizing the end color because it didn't look right. Supposedly the "we had a paint chip sample" was to put people's worries to rest that the engine color was right. IIRC that just fueled more debate of how wrong the color was. Whatever engine that one was, it wasn't New York Central and I believe it was something that I was late to the party(meaning before I got back in the hobby) and didn't get it.

After York I'll get with you about my two CV's. Been a long work day, and all I can think about is the sounds of steam whistles from a distance. I don't have to dream or watch a video, Sunday after #60 was blowing hard coming into Pumpkin Junction. That's a new stop where they pop off for a bit, pick pumpkins, and can do a corn maze and other activities.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I can only imagine. I do recall Ryan had told me at York one of the times about matching paint from one of the engines. I can't recall what exact engine it was but remember someone criticizing the end color because it didn't look right. Supposedly the "we had a paint chip sample" was to put people's worries to rest that the engine color was right. IIRC that just fueled more debate of how wrong the color was. Whatever engine that one was, it wasn't New York Central and I believe it was something that I was late to the party(meaning before I got back in the hobby) and didn't get it.

After York I'll get with you about my two CV's. Been a long work day, and all I can think about is the sounds of steam whistles from a distance. I don't have to dream or watch a video, Sunday after #60 was blowing hard coming into Pumpkin Junction. That's a new stop where they pop off for a bit, pick pumpkins, and can do a corn maze and other activities.

One of the times??…..I lost count of the mistakes,…..the Pacemaker cars that are a couple years old now are so far off it’s a sin,….I’m really thinking those cars will get a dose of Pullman green and downgraded to commuter duty,,,,,I have the Kline Pacemaker set which is far superior to the cars in the Legacy set,…but hey,….good news, the oober light gray will make a great primer base for Pullman green…..🙄

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

One of the times??…..I lost count of the mistakes,…..the Pacemaker cars that are a couple years old now are so far off it’s a sin,….I’m really thinking those cars will get a dose of Pullman green and downgraded to commuter duty,,,,,I have the Kline Pacemaker set which is far superior to the cars in the Legacy set,…but hey,….good news, the oober light gray will make a great primer base for Pullman green…..🙄

Pat

Pat, I was referring to just one instance, lol. Like I said, can't remember what engine it was, but the excuse of it being the right color was they had a paint chip sample. Of course it still wasn't right. At least the Clown Challenger was the right color, fantasy.

I think I read that the paint used on the shell of the light color CV did match or was very close to the paint chip but the paint chip was for the lettering on the engine not the main engine color.

@GregM posted:

I think I read that the paint used on the shell of the light color CV did match or was very close to the paint chip but the paint chip was for the lettering on the engine not the main engine color.

That would be news to me,….can you think back and find the publication that you read it from?…..that would be good information on this thread for future questions and research materials,…..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

That would be news to me,….can you think back and find the publication that you read it from?…..that would be good information on this thread for future questions and research materials,…..

Pat

I know the old TMB documentary on the Hudson's had a guy from Lionel say it was the cab trim color. Probably old news at this point 😅.

I remember hearing the same story back then but have NO idea where we would find it or supposedly who said that about it being the color of the trim and lettering.

I recall that documentary now too,…..that was second hand information as well,….about as strong as the second hand info I’ve gotten from others,….it’s all got to be taken with a grain of salt……Unfortunately, since there’s nothing left concrete to hang our hats on, we’ll have to do our own research, and agree on what’s right in our own minds,….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I recall that documentary now too,…..that was second hand information as well,….about as strong as the second hand info I’ve gotten from others,….it’s all got to be taken with a grain of salt……Unfortunately, since there’s nothing left concrete to hang our hats on, we’ll have to do our own research, and agree on what’s right in our own minds,….

Pat

The old, "I knew a guy who knew a guy that flew that spaceship that no one ever saw down to earth in the mid to late 1940's. Everyone remembers it, but no one knows the actual guy. Also, he had a paint chip in his pocket, or so I am told by the guy who knew a guy."

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

The old, "I knew a guy who knew a guy that flew that spaceship that no one ever saw down to earth in the mid to late 1940's. Everyone remembers it, but no one knows the actual guy. Also, he had a paint chip in his pocket, or so I am told by the guy who knew a guy."

Pat

Ready to head for home rails, …..we’ve put the finishing touches on Sid’s Commodore Vanderbilt…..it’s Sid’s turn to carry on with his expertise, wiring the Legacy system,……..she’s a looker now!….Merry Christmas y’all!….

Pat

Just needs to have some foggy scene for it to break through like a promotion from the past.

It certainly looks great, Pat!

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Just needs to have some foggy scene for it to break through like a promotion from the past.

I was getting ready to satisfy you Dave, and break out a smoke unit and stick it in front of Sid’s Hudson….then I thought …..I’m not getting smoke oil residue all over his wagon and then try and pack it up,….not a good idea!!….especially on fresh paint….🥺

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I was getting ready to satisfy you Dave, and break out a smoke unit and stick it in front of Sid’s Hudson….then I thought …..I’m not getting smoke oil residue all over his wagon and then try and pack it up,….not a good idea!!….especially on fresh paint….🥺

Pat

Haha! That's okay, keep it clean.

Trying to get my Vanderbilt all dirty I see 😂😂. It sure will be smoking when I have it all hooked up.

@Sid's Trains posted:

Trying to get my Vanderbilt all dirty I see 😂😂. It sure will be smoking when I have it all hooked up.

Oh I’m sure you’ll have her smoking like a banshee with that bathtub smoke unit you had me install,….but far easier for you to lightly wipe it off when it’s sitting on your layout, rather than me trying wipe it off then stick foam wrappers on it ………all oily and nasty!!!….🤮🤪

Pat

I was showing off this topic to my good buddy, told him that eventually my two will wind up at the Harmon Shops. He really likes the paint job, which I was explaining that Pat didn't just do willy nilly, that it was a big process of the meeting of the minds. Gotta love that paint job.

Pat your work is truly remarkable, as always!

Pat - is that an oil filter on the back of the engine?😂😂😂😂

@coach joe posted:

Pat your work is truly remarkable, as always!

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Pat - is that an oil filter on the back of the engine?😂😂😂😂

Coach, thanks for the compliments!….I try!…someday I’ll be as good as Pete!!…

Mark, had I sprayed Sid’s engine with that icky smoke oil, I doubt there’d be a filter big enough to sop up that mess!!!….I’m beginning to see why Norm C. dislikes smoke,….I’m thinking of joining him, and gut every smoke unit I own,….just makes a mess,….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Coach, thanks for the compliments!….I try!…someday I’ll be as good as Pete!!…

Mark, had I sprayed Sid’s engine with that icky smoke oil, I doubt there’d be a filter big enough to sop up that mess!!!….I’m beginning to see why Norm C. dislikes smoke,….I’m thinking of joining him, and gut every smoke unit I own,….just makes a mess,….

Pat

I see you are moving to the dark side with no smoke aye. I'll make sure to put Proto 1 units in anything you send me 😂😂. I feel you on the fact that it can be messy, but it's just to cool to not use.

@Sid's Trains posted:

I see you are moving to the dark side with no smoke aye. I'll make sure to put Proto 1 units in anything you send me 😂😂. I feel you on the fact that it can be messy, but it's just to cool to not use.

I agree, …it is cool,…but I just ran the death out of my Legacy J3a, and it’s a sopping wet mess….😉……and subsequently anything on the adjacent tracks is all peppered too!…🤣🤣🤣🤣

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I agree, …it is cool,…but I just ran the death out of my Legacy J3a, and it’s a sopping wet mess….😉……and subsequently anything on the adjacent tracks is all peppered too!…🤣🤣🤣🤣

Pat

Well if it is because that gimmick of a water scoop feature I can see why, but whistle steam and stack steam has never been an issue for me personally.

@Sid's Trains posted:

Well if it is because that gimmick of a water scoop feature I can see why, but whistle steam and stack steam has never been an issue for me personally.

Absolutely,….I have that in a Niagara ….it’s the worst offender!!

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

….I’m beginning to see why Norm C. dislikes smoke,….I’m thinking of joining him, and gut every smoke unit I own,….just makes a mess,….

Pat

You'd be in good company...👍 Terrific job, Pat; Merry Christmas to you as well. 🎄🎄🎄

Mark in Oregon 🎄

I've not run my Niagara or Hudson with water scoop effect and won't. While it is cool, I don't want all the residue all over the tracks and anything else. I'll just slowly pollute with stack and whistle.

So after almost an entire year this project has been completed. This project combined my electronics skills with legacy and Pats master craftsmanship. His work is outstanding and I can't thank him enough.

With that said lets take a look at this Vanderbilt. Pat painted it this beautiful color. As close to the real thing as you can get. The pin stripes and lettering are fantastic. So crisp and well done. Moving onto electronics I worked my magic alongside Pats modifications. Pat installed the Pittman motor along side a custom flywheel with the legacy encoder. He also mounted all the electronics in the locomotive (RCMC, Smoke unit DSMK, and the headlight. On the tender side he mounted the RS lite and LTC1 bracket. He also fabricated amazing 3rd rail pickups for the tender truck. They work very well.

Moving onto my work, I installed the big fatboy speaker in the tender, custom mounted the volume pot, and wired the entire tender. I made sure to make all the wiring clean and made sure nothing would rub or get caught underneath the trucks. There is a three pin flat tether between the engine and tether for IR data for the legacy rail sounds and power pickup connections. On the engine side, I added two red 3mm firebox LEDs, mounted a nice 5mm warm white cab light to illuminate Pats amazing back head detailing, and reinstalled a PRG/RUN switch. Pat had already installed the 3mm headlight LED so all that was left was the engine wiring. Again I made sure it was all very clean and presentable. The final result is what I would call the greatest Vanderbilt you will ever see.

Engine Features: Legacy Control, Legacy J3a Railsounds, LED lighting, Firebox Glow, Stack smoke, Whistle Steam, Detailed Back head....

The list goes on. This is basically a brand new legacy engine stuffed into an old 700e chassis. This is what I call the best solution to Lionel not making a legacy Vanderbilt.

Well enough of me blathering on. Here it is: