Source of Light Grey Ballast That Does NOT Change Color

Look at Brennans Better Ballast,he has a large selection.

Mikey

Have used Brennan's for a very large layout. The main lines are all done with the lighter gray ballast. I use water/alcohol first, then Elmer's/water (3:1). No change in color at all. Works like a charm. Looks great. Dennis also has a blacker ballast for the yard area which also looks great. 

Ed Kelly posted:

Hi All,

I am looking for light grey ballast that does not change color when Elmer's white glue is used to glue it in place.

Currently, my light grey ballast turns to light tan after Elmers is sprayed on.  Just using wet water (water with several drops of detergent added) to dilute the Elmers.  Same thing happened when I used commercial matte medium.   By commercial, I mean, it came diluted. 

 

What brand of ballast does this and what brand of commercial diluted matte medium?

Sorry for the delay.  The ballast is from Smith and Sons.  I have to find the matte medium before I can tell you the source.  The ballast was the same with both the Elmers and matte medium.

Ed

Roofing granules.   $22 for 80# out here.

It took a little digging, but I was able to find that the ballast is stone and not nutshells. I would say that the discoloration is coming from the detergent or the water.

Use Jerrman's method with distilled water.

Also, use a current supplier as mentioned above. Smith & Sons may not be the best source now.

Scenic Express has good ballast.  Actual stone I believe.

Dennis

Dennis posted:

Scenic Express has good ballast.  Actual stone I believe.

Dennis

The Woodland Scenics ballast/cinders I purchased from Scenic Express, was all "ground nut shells", and didn't seem to change colors at all, when glued down with thinned Matte Medium (purchased by the gallon from Scenic Express also).

I find it hard to believe that once you add the adhesive you won't get some sort of change in color or a darkening. All my Woodland Scenics ballast got darker once I added the glue.

There were no nuts or other material in the stone ballast I bought from Scenic Express at York a few years ago.

Ed,

Myself and fellow club members have used Brummy's Landscape Express ballast with success.   It is actually ground up rubber in different sizes/colors.   I have spritzed the ballast with 91% isopropyl alcohol then applied Scenic Express pre mixed matte medium without issues.   No website,  but Dave has a Facebook page with contact info.

Nick

BradA posted:

Roofing granules.   $22 for 80# out here.

That's what I use.  My local roofing supply co has it in light gray, dark gray, white & black.  No need to spend the extra $$ for branded ballast.  Like Brad said "$22 for 80 lbs."  That's a lot of ballast.

Any natural ground cover will get darker after you get it wet. Dont think you are going to stop that from happening with any product unless it has been sealed with something before hand to get the color you are looking for. Just weather it after the glue dries with a lighter color powder or chalk.

At least for the Smith and Son ballast, it has not been washed. Once it gets wet, the nice dusty look on it goes away once the dust is washed away. If you add glue to it you've sealed that non-dusty look.

I experimented with just about every ballast out there before I proceeded. They all changed to some degree or another or I never could get the color I wanted.

In the end, I used Smith and Son white ballast and colored it with latex paint and that gave it the color I like. It also washed and sealed it. Then I ballasted with white glue and water with minimal color change. Then I weathered along the tracks some with an air brush.

I could have colored and sealed any of the ballast out there, I just had a bunch of Smith and Son on hand.

Chris how did color the white ballast with latex paint?

Nick,

I put some paint in a cup and diluted it with water. Then mixed the ballast in the cup and then poured off excess water/paint mixture. Then I dumped the ballast onto a plastic bag and spread it out to dry with fans going. Every few hours I'd shift the ballast around on the plastic. When it dried I'd run it through my hands to make sure nothing clumped.

The ratio I worked with was 6 teaspoons of paint/quarter cup of water/quarter cup of ballast.

You could ratchet the proportions and production up greatly if necessary.

Chick grit. It's ground up light gray granite.

Thanks to all for the help.  I am going to try a variation of Chris's method of coloring the ballast.  I have about 50' of light tan ballast in place and thinned paint should correct it.  Then I will color the ballast pre-installation.  I have too much of Smith and Sons' ballast on hand to waste it.

Ed

What about light gray kitty litter for the hobbyist without any cats, for obvious reasons? 

I once read an article in a train magazine, maybe OGR, that recommended it. 

I use "Brennan's Better Ballast."  Love it. Easy to work with and I think it looks great.

An Ink/alcohol mixture is a better choice for coloring stone than is thinned paint.

Kitty litter granules are too large but they are cheaper.

Mikey

Avanti posted:

An Ink/alcohol mixture is a better choice for coloring stone than is thinned paint.

I've seen good results w/ the ink/alcohol method.  

With regards to using latex paint diluted w/ water, wouldn't a stain (concrete or wood) provide the desired color effect with reduced risk of clumping or later the coating peeling away?

Regarding Kitty litter ballast, I went to the supermarket this morning and bought a 10 pound bag of unscented, non-clumping and dust free kitty litter made of clay for $2.29. It was the smallest quantity  they had, and is still well in excess of what I need.

I will take some photos when my smart phone charges up within the hour.

I agree that the kitty litter granules are too big, but my traditional O Gauge tubular 3 rail track is already way too big to be in scale  so I think the appearance of the kitty litter as ballast works for my layout.

I have left the kitty litter ballast loose for now.

My concerns include will it cause rusty track pins and connections? A friend advised against it because kitty litter absorbs moisture.

Also, although it is dust free, will it get into the motor, wheels, and train mechanism and cause problems with the trains?  I have not put any in between that rails, I only put it outside the outer rails.

I'm sure that the ballast made for model trains is much better than kitty litter ballast, especially for layouts with modern track in scale.

Arnold

Hi Ed,

My ballast isn't clumped at all, and since it is very diluted it is essentially a stain in itself, but I got the exact match for ballast color that I wanted. I worried at first that it would clump but if it is spread around while it is drying it comes out great in the end. You need faith while it is drying, hang in there until it dries.

The concerns here about this method are unfounded. It's tested on my layout for several years with diluted white glue. Try a small batch yourself.

I used a combination of Glidden paints: Old Montgomery, 3 parts, Heron Grey 2 parts , Stone Harbour Grey, 1 part. If the Smith and Son Ballast is the same as the local DC group got about 20 or more years ago, I have a bucket of that same stuff as well. I put some down and the dust ran off and left a different color. The DUSTY version of that batch of ballast was the color I tried to closely match but the color you choose is pretty unlimited.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Regarding Kitty litter ballast, I went to the supermarket this morning and bought a 10 pound bag of unscented, non-clumping and dust free kitty litter made of clay for $2.29. It was the smallest quantity  they had, and is still well in excess of what I need.

I will take some photos when my smart phone charges up within the hour.

I agree that the kitty litter granules are too big, but my traditional O Gauge tubular 3 rail track is already way too big to be in scale  so I think the appearance of the kitty litter as ballast works for my layout.

I have left the kitty litter ballast loose for now.

My concerns include will it cause rusty track pins and connections? A friend advised against it because kitty litter absorbs moisture.

Also, although it is dust free, will it get into the motor, wheels, and train mechanism and cause problems with the trains?  I have not put any in between that rails, I only put it outside the outer rails.

I'm sure that the ballast made for model trains is much better than kitty litter ballast, especially for layouts with modern track in scale.

Arnold

 

 

Here are some photos of kitty litter ballast for traditional tubular track. Keep in mind I put the kitty litter only outside of the outside rails, not in between the rails  and I out it over smalls pebbles that are grossly too big to be ballast:

The shots below show the kitty litter granules hiding seams between roads and structures:

I would love to get  your honest feedback about the kitty litter.

Kitty litter does not cause rust. 

Did you sift the litter through a colander? You can get a more uniform effect that way. It will not get into your locomotives if you sift out the tiny stuff.

Properly done, kitty litter can match any other ballasting technique.

Hi Chris,

I don't consider clumping a problem.  Frequent mixing of the drying ballast will take care of that.

I probably won't mix several colors of paint to get the color I want.  I will simply pick the color from the paint chips that comes closest to what I want.  I do have some samples of paint that I want to try tomorrow.  I will get back to you after it dries.

Cheers,

Ed

Avanti posted:

Kitty litter does not cause rust. 

Did you sift the litter through a colander? You can get a more uniform effect that way. It will not get into your locomotives if you sift out the tiny stuff.

Properly done, kitty litter can match any other ballasting technique.

Thank you Pete. Sifting is a very good idea. I will do that before putting down any more kitty litter ballast, and especially do it before putting the kitty litter between  the rails. 

Is it OK to leave it loose, or is it necessary to use spray glue?

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Is it OK to leave it loose, or is it necessary to use spray glue?

I have left some areas loose without major issues. Honestly, though, a quick soak of diluted white glue is not difficult and keeps everything composed over time. Just start with a misting of wet-water, and then dribble dilute glue with an eye-dropper.

Hi All, 

Back to the original topic.  

I found a shade of paint that is very, very close to High Ball Ballast Dark Gray.  It is Home Depot Behr "Iron Mountain".  Using Chris's dilution factor of 1 part paint to 2 parts water but substituting wet water with Elmers already dissolved, I can change the light tan ballast to dark gray.

The question becomes,"Should I?"  I have been starring at it for months and have gotten used to it.  Where in the USA is the ballast light tan?  Out west, I would guess but I am modeling southwest Pennsylvania.  

I am going to think it over over the weekend.  Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ed

Roofing granules. Would have gone with Brennen's but I have a large layout and granules are the cheapest bulk way to go. They are almost exactly the right size in scale. How do I know this? I actually went out and measured ballast on the Norfolk-Southern and did the math. Beware! Roofing granules are mildly magnetic and will foul gears in any engines with Magna-traction. If you're running vintage Lionel with MT, don't use it.