Southern RR Fans- PHOTOS

New to the forum and really enjoyed reading this thread.  Still have some to go,  but I've enjoyed the learning experience so far. 

My grandfather started with Southern in the 20s. Spent much of the 30s as a Fireman on the runs between Chattanooga and Kentucky.  Quit Southern to work for a bridge construction company.   It was more money and safer,  if you can believe that.  He went back to Southern in the early 60s to try to qualify for full retirement.  Eventually ended up running a switcher in Chattanooga for several years.  His last job was running the line he started at between Chattanooga and Kentucky.  Retired sometime in the 70s.

That's pretty much all I have pieced together on his days with Southern, since he died when I was young and his second wife ended up with all of the documentation from his career.

There is a few more family story about being sent home with pay for running the switcher into a work shed by accident.  Plus hitting a deaf/blind man walking on the tracks. Happened a month before he retired. He couldn't help it but always hated that.

 Lionel’s Southern 630…vs the Real Engine!  Oh My!!  I am going to have to pass on this one!

 

 

Here's a more similar angle to compare to.  Let's hold out hope.  Lionel's is a computer image, not necessarily the prototype.

 

On the other side of the coin, the #4501 returns to the Lionel line - albeit in the traditional sized baby version. Still, I think it looks quite nice, and a lot more accurate than its #630 cousin in the same catalog.

Lionel is also coming out with two tuxedo Southern GP-9s, 6256 & 6257. They will be Legacy control with improved Conventional control. Just type Southern in Lionel's search box. Lionel SKU 82794 for 6256 and 82795 for 6257.

In looking more at the new Southern GP-9, I discovered an interesting discrepancy. The real locos originally had 800 gallon fuel tanks. These were considered "branch line" units. Originally 8214-8215, they were renumbered 6256-6257 in early 1970. Since Lionel models have a 1300 gallon tank, this would be something you would have to accept on the model.

The MTH 302-303 GP-9s from a few years ago have a correct sized tank.

Just something to consider.

 

 

I was originally on the fence about ordering a Southern GP-30 from the last catalog.  While the GP-9s look great, today I chose to order a SRR GP-30 2601 (not the one pictured below) from Charles Ro, since it is actually here and operates in North Carolina. 

 

Some recent releases from MTH

 

30-75504 Southern Airslide

 

 

MTH 30-75508 Southern PS-2 discharge hopper

 

 

 

 

 

MTH 20-97331 Southern Ps-2 hopper

 

 

Dewey, email me, I tried to email you but your email addy looks incomplete in your profile.

Lionel is listening about the 630.  Mike R from Lionel posted this today on another thread:   https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...77#44088307234415677

 

The tender looks better, but for me I would rather see it done with new tooling.  Lionel wants to hear from us as Mike says below about creating new tooling for the 630.  What do you guys think?

 

From Mike R...

Wanted to send an update to all our fans on some of the new projects in the 2015 C2 Catalog. Let’s start with the Consolidations. Many of you have called and emailed (and posted here!) about the tender on Southern 630 in particular. We know this Consolidation is not an entirely accurate model for the 630 or many of the other roadnames included. However, if giving it a tender closer to the prototype will help – then the tender you will have!  We will be substituting the tender used on our USRA Mikados for the PRR E6 tender on these locomotives. Because this tender is at least a little closer in appearance for all of the locomotives, except those using Vanderbilts, we will make the change on the Milwaukee Road, Nickel Plate and Western Maryland versions as well.

 

We know this still does not get us off the hook for creating a completely accurate version of the 630, 734 or other Consolidations. Such a project will require a substantial amount of new tooling. So if you really want it – let us know!  We’re listening!

 

Look for some more updates here later today. Updates will be sent to your dealers early next week as well. Please contact them (and Lionel Customer Service) after Wednesday next week (9/23/15) if you have any questions.

 

Personally Ken, I'd rather wait until they go all out on this engine. Nice as the change is and nice that the people at Lionel understand where we're coming from, it'll be more worth the wait in the end if Lionel decides to go that route.

Ken and Thomas, do you think Lionel or any of the other O-Gauge makers will/would expend $150K to $225K for the required tooling for one eng?????????????

 

So are you willing to pay $200 to $500 more?  Might as well look at brass.

 

I know some have expressed their thoughts that tooling is not that expensive since made in China.  And you are correct but only to the fact that "tooling" is actual a global product.  So the value is a global value not just what happens or could happen in China.  Tooling is part of the global economy.

 

Ron

Placing the bell in the proper location requires no new tooling.

Maybe and again maybe not.  If the existing tooling leaves a hole for the bell mounting stem then that tooling would have to be modified say for no stem mounting hole at all.  Then all product would require the hole to be drilled.  So now they would have to tooling for multiple drilling fixtures and add manual processing steps.

 

Ron

Since Mike Reagan's saying that they would do it if enough people say right now, I would say yes to that Ron.

I am not a rivet counter; however, I am still not sold on the new look of Lionel's SRR 630.  I think I will wait until a more prototypical one is made.

The KEY word is "enough."  Ask Mike what the enough number would be.

 

In fact it with Mike that I had a extensive discussion on tooling cost during one of his many visits to the local toy train shop here.

 

The reason I used the word "maybe" above is because maybe the mounting hole is not in the casting dies.  As such then the hole is made separately.  So then as such a small number could then be drilled special.  It ALL depends on cost.

 

Ron

Good question. I'll ask one in reply: do you think I or [m]any of the other O-Gauge modelers will/would expend $[a few hundred] for a locomotive model that has very little bearing on the actual prototype?????????????????????????????????????????????

• Tooling is expensive?
• Dog's pregnant?
• Wife's got fleas?

Not my problem. Not one of them.

If a company wants to make a 'representational' model that has very little bearing on the real article, fine. But anyone arguing that tooling is expensive will get the immediate question from me of, "why'd they even bother, then, if they knew they couldn't/wouldn't make an accurate model?"

Can't/won't make the tooling? Fine. Make a different model, then. Problem solved, right?

Dewey, I just puled out my copy of "Steam's Camelot" to see a good picture of 630.  It is not simply the bell location, it is the steam dome location.  I know on some of the HO steam kits I have been involved with the dome attached separately.  But I am more then reasonably sure these are cast in based on the dies.  That is the major piece of tooling.

 

Ron

Eons ago one of my Calculus professors would say it is all FDR's fault!

 

 

Ron

Ron

Quite a few differences that would require new tooling and tender.

 

Schematic drawings show one SRR Consolidation's tender with 14 ton coal and 10K gallon water capacity. Inside tender dimensions 28'x10'-10". Dimension from center of stack to center of steam dome=14'-5".

Another shows a smaller tender dimension as 27'x10'-0" with capacity of 14K tons and 8K gallons. Center of stack dimension to center of steam dome=14'-0-1/4".

 

 

On both, the bell mounted in the "Blessing" position top front of smokebox--"Southern style".

 

                              .................from Southern Steam Power, Ranks & Lowe.

Hey Dewey,

 

Looking at the catalog they are saying "All New." 

 

If that means new tooling then there is a way at INCREASED cost to accommodate more than one style Consplidation at least to some degree. 

 

It appears Lionel is basing their 2-8-0 on a Harriman standard Consolidation.  Lionel maybe ,again if new tooling, go the extra cost for modularized tooling.  Where the top section of the boiler can be changed out.  But I would expect a greater MSRP for these probably much smaller sales items.  

 

But also to gain at least some of the Southern 630 looks the smoke box front would have to be drilled for the bell mounting bracket and the headlight would have to be lowered on a bracket with a brow on the light.

 

These changes would make it more Southern albeit not completely.

 

 

The only way to get it completely Southern is with a lot of tooling.  And I doubt if there would be enough purchase interest to pay the price.

 

Ron

Video is great even in black and white.

C.Sam, thanks for starting this thread. ai don't think there's anyone who is not fond of the Southern.  Until late adulthood, I had never encountered SOU in person.  Now that I have ridden and observed the Southern, I continue to gain respect for Frank Clodfelter's Home Road.

MTH's Volume 1  2016 Catalog Southern Engine Offerings.  What do you guys think about them?

 

 

I like all three offerings and would like a set of E-8's.  I just wish they would offer a non-powered version of the A unit.   All my passenger equipment works quite well with one power unit.  This would also really cut down on the  cost of having an A-A configuration.

 

Nice to see nice Southern offering in MTH's catalogue.

 

Happy railroading,

Don

I love it,pre-ordering a single E8 and 5 car passenger set. I like both 4501s and the SAL 2-10-0 too but will have to decide on one steam engine only.

I'm thinking about ordering 1 Southern E-8 A-unit to go along with the other 3 A units that I have so I can have a prototypically looking engine consist......rogerw.

Still wish MTH would make Southern green F7s. Thinking about the E-8s.

Sadly, yet again, no roof-top air tanks. 

 

Pass.

 

 

Roof top tanks were a Southern modification. I think P&D hobby might have these to modify. If I get this unit, I will kitbash the tanks. Wonder if Roger W added tanks to his units?

Hello Larry, No I haven't added tanks to my Southern E-8's..............yet!...........lol.........rogerw.

I too will most probably order an E8 #6900.

 

But it is sad that MTH could not or maybe just would not add the tanks!  They did for this B&O GP-9.

 

 

Ron

You need to get the green 4501 to double head with your PS-4.

I am ordering the 4501 in black.

Hey Mike, I'll just double with your engine when you get it..........lol....

Both Mikados look lovely.

 

Then again, all of them do. The Premier Mikados are some of my top favorite engines by MTH. I'm glad to see them back with PS3.

 

Great idea by MTH to do both the familiar Crescent green version AND the current black version for those who have preferences.

 

Though their tenders look a bit too small to be accurate and the prices are pretty high, I gotta give MTH a thumbs up.

I'm jumping on the black 01 since I already have a K-Line version. I'm on the fence about the E8 I already have 4 Weavers E8's that I'm going to upgrade to TMCC. Still wished MTH would have done a HighHood SD40-2 and number it 3170!!

The question is will the MTH E8 #6900 have the ditch -lights it now sports?

 

Ron

PRRronbh, I wouldn't count on it!.............................rogerw.

Yes you my be right.  But they MTH do have the tooling since they did the Levin PRR E8 with the ditch-lights.

 

Ron