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If the green is too light, that doesn't bother me.  There were plenty of shades of green, depends on where it came from.  It's better than the mint of the 4-6-0's.  What does bug me is the BLACK smokebox, I have seen a few pictures of SR engines with black smokeboxes (or extremely filthy). Either way, black smokeboxes were very few and very very far between.  I may paint mine. 

Seems like every SR engine Lionel does lately I end up painting.  If I going to have to do that why bother ordering??

I just picked up the Atlas O 1619-1, Southern 4135 and 1620-2, 4325 in the double stripe, or butter knife passenger scheme. Does anyone one have these or any other numbers offered by Atlas O?

I am curious what people think of the imitation aluminum color. I know MTH and Lionel used white on some of their issues, but the actual color was a mix of white and gray. It is hard to accurately show the color in a photo.

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I have been wanting an AB set of these for quite a while, and these are totally unrun! All of the extra parts are still in their bags, including a scale pilot to install on the A unit with coupler.

I think Southern kept these fairly clean, so little or no weathering for these.

Thoughts?

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Hopefully other can shed some more light on the light - heavy question as per previous.

  The Lionel model is pretty close to SR 4501 in some form or another as to it's many detail variations over the years.  4501 was built in 1911, that's pre USRA (WWi era), which is where the standardized models of various weights and wheel arrangements came from.

  And as a further aside, Way predates the WWII War production board restrictions from whence the PRR J1 has its direct mechanical lineage to a C&O T1.  Looks not withstanding.

The Lionel and Frisco 2-8-2 models are correct for the pre-WWI USRA standard plans which most railroads adopted for various wheel arrangements. A majority of 4501 models, in any scale, have always used the WWI light Mikado design, since it was easy to repaint into several different railroads. These two Lionel versions were created specifically for these models, and I don't think they will ever be duplicated again.

The light and heavy monikers were created by the USRA to distinguish the different 2-8-2 locomotives by weight. Both had that swell in the boiler by the firebox, a telltale sign of a USRA design.

@Larry Neal posted:

The Lionel and Frisco 2-8-2 models are correct for the pre-WWI USRA standard plans which most railroads adopted for various wheel arrangements. A majority of 4501 models, in any scale, have always used the WWI light Mikado design, since it was easy to repaint into several different railroads. These two Lionel versions were created specifically for these models, and I don't think they will ever be duplicated again.

The light and heavy monikers were created by the USRA to distinguish the different 2-8-2 locomotives by weight. Both had that swell in the boiler by the firebox, a telltale sign of a USRA design.

Hi Larry hope all is well.

Question did the Southern have a BERK?  I do not recall any.



Ron

Southern leased a Kanawhas 2716 or formerly (Berkeshire) C&O 2716 temporary for their Steam program. As I recall both Lionel and MTH made a locomotive painted for Southern.

Yes the Clayton brothers leased 2716 from KRM while 4501 was being repaired.  I rode behind her on her last or second to last run.  She was leaking water about as fast as they could fill it.  The Claytors also leased the former T&P 610 to fill the excursion needs.

2716 was not painted "green" nor ever a Southern rostered engine.  

I have the MTH model MTH 20-3188-1.

@PRRronbh posted:

Hi Larry hope all is well.

Question did the Southern have a BERK?  I do not recall any.



Ron

I am doing well Ron.

No, Southern never rostered a 2-8-4 during their years of steam operation, nor any steam locomotive using a 4-wheel rear truck. They used plenty of 2-8-2 and 2-10-2 wheel arrangements.  As mentioned above, they briefly used 2716 for the steam program while their other engines were out of service.

Last edited by Larry Neal

As a point of clarification Graham and Robert Claytor (brothers) didn't have anything to do with 2716.  2716 was used on the Southern from 1980 to mid 1982.  Graham left the SR to become Secretary of the Navy in 1977.  Robert was with the N&W until the NS merger to become the first NS president, 2716 was already out of service.  N&W 611 took the place of 2716 as a large engine to pull the ever longer now NS excursions.

Also Texas and Pacific 610 was not the fruition of Robert Claytor.  610 was on lease 1976-1980, way before Robert was involved with the SR (NS) steam program.  Graham no doubt did have something to do with 610.



Also don't refer to the 2716 as a Berkshire (named for the Massachusetts mountains) at least in the C&O region.  2716 is a Kanawha (named for the West Virginia river).  Same goes for the 614, it isn't a northern, its a Greenbrier (named for the West Virginia river).

Southern never rostered any modern or Super Power steam engines.  Their newest steam engine was built around 1926 or so.

@Larry Neal  I realize your post is almost a year old, but I thought I would comment.  Your AB set is great, and the F2 was not in that scheme for very long so I'd say keep it clean.  I don't think there is a way to do a really good job with imitation aluminum color, so I don't worry about it.

I have an AA set which is not what the Southern Railway ran.  I am looking for a powered B unit to match mine but they just do not show up for sale.

Atlas SR F2 and Lionel Pax

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Pictures of my two latest SR steam projects.  Seems like I'm never satisfied with stock models anymore.

2-8-0 542 is a J class built by Baldwin in 1903 lettered for SR affiliate Atlantic and Yadkin.  This locomotive still exists and resides at the North Carolina TransportationMuseum in Spencer NC.

IMG_20231020_181644734_HDRIMG_20231122_160819730_HDR



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Model started as a 1950's vintage Thomas 2 rail kit.  Cab was moved back, smokebox extended, domes moved, stack moved, smokebox front totally changed, new running boards made,  various and sundry other detailing changes.  Biggest change and hardest was changing the cylinders from the Thomas piston valve casting to a Precision Scale slide valve set.  A Lionel mogul tender replaced the original and has third rail pickups, currently a Williams Electronic reverser from a BL2 is in the tender.  A ERR command system will eventually be installed.  No sound as the vertical drive design will not allow and has no room.  The drive would have to be completely built from scratch.  And of course a paint job with custom decals from Christine Braden.



4-6-0 965 is a F1 class built by Rogers in 1890 and scrapped in 1939.

Starting point was a Bachmann 4-6-0.

IMG_20231022_142339010_HDR



I always thought the stock model was OK, but needed improvements.  The cheap tab and slot crosshead wrist pin was always an issue and the tender is way too big.  The tender size is required to get the electronics and speaker in it.

IMG_20231122_160620265_HDRIMG_20231122_160630735

Here's my redo to the 965.  None of the Southern F1's were alike and the 965 had real close characteristics to the stock model.

I cut daylight between the cast on piping below the running boards, cut and filled the cast on handrails and pilot cut lever and replaced with separate wire handrails, changed the generator, headlight, and domes.  I flattened the main rod tabs and soldered up the slots in the crosshead, a 2-56 hex bolt and nut replaced the cheap looking original design.  Again various and sundry details and window glass added.  The tender is a modified Thomas from the 2-8-0 kit (above) with deck angles added, plus Lionel trucks and a styrene frame (The tender frame cost me $700 and 6 hours in the ER when I put a big slice in my hand with a brand new Xacto chisel blade).  I ditched the sound to have the small tender.  Currently still has the Bachmann reverser but an ERR system again is probably in the future.  New paint with K4 supply decals.  It's not perfect or exact, but I think it is a lot closer than what was started with.

Two Warnings (aside from not cutting your hand).  While the main rods look symmetrical, they are NOT.  Make sure you mark front and rear.  I painted and put a 3D print headlight on a set of spring loaded pliers to paint and dry in a warming oven on low and turned off overnight.  To my surprise the next day the headlight had become oval and broke when I tried to fix it.  Hopefully some of the 3D printer people can expound on what happened.

Add two more Southern steam locomotives to the railroad roster.

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@NHVRYGray posted:

Pictures of my two latest SR steam projects.  Seems like I'm never satisfied with stock models anymore.


4-6-0 965 is a F1 class built by Rogers in 1890 and scrapped in 1939.

Starting point was a Bachmann 4-6-0.

IMG_20231022_142339010_HDR

I always thought the stock model was OK, but needed improvements.  The cheap tab and slot crosshead wrist pin was always an issue and the tender is way too big.  The tender size is required to get the electronics and speaker in it.

IMG_20231122_160620265_HDRIMG_20231122_160630735

Here's my redo to the 965.  None of the Southern F1's were alike and the 965 had real close characteristics to the stock model.

I cut daylight between the cast on piping below the running boards, cut and filled the cast on handrails and pilot cut lever and replaced with separate wire handrails, changed the generator, headlight, and domes.  I flattened the main rod tabs and soldered up the slots in the crosshead, a 2-56 hex bolt and nut replaced the cheap looking original design.  Again various and sundry details and window glass added.  The tender is a modified Thomas from the 2-8-0 kit (above) with deck angles added, plus Lionel trucks and a styrene frame (The tender frame cost me $700 and 6 hours in the ER when I put a big slice in my hand with a brand new Xacto chisel blade).  I ditched the sound to have the small tender.  Currently still has the Bachmann reverser but an ERR system again is probably in the future.  New paint with K4 supply decals.  It's not perfect or exact, but I think it is a lot closer than what was started with.

Two Warnings (aside from not cutting your hand).  While the main rods look symmetrical, they are NOT.  Make sure you mark front and rear.  I painted and put a 3D print headlight on a set of spring loaded pliers to paint and dry in a warming oven on low and turned off overnight.  To my surprise the next day the headlight had become oval and broke when I tried to fix it.  Hopefully some of the 3D printer people can expound on what happened.

Add two more Southern steam locomotives to the railroad roster.

First of all - great work. Love that tender.

Here's my take on an upgraded WbB 4-6-0. They run well (no cruise needed), and mine already had a several-years-old  TAS TMCC/RS unit filling the too-large tender, and I did not want to re-do that, so I compromised a bunch. The brass headlight placement/type is from photos of one that worked the Mobile Division. It was already Southern-painted, but the color was so wrong I actually painted over it and did my own striping (mostly paint) and re-numbering. Southern re-painted Southern. Sheesh. I agree about the cheesy side rods and so forth. This is really an excellent mechanism in search of a good locomotive. I definitely need to do a bit of weathering. I probably need to stripe the cylinder sides.

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