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I want to put together a SP Daylight passenger train. Planning on ordering the GGD newest run of the Passenger cars. What would be the best prototypical Lionel Legacy steam engine to head up this consist? It is my understanding that Lionel’s recent AC9 Daylight model is a “What If” model that was never built for actual rr use. Must be Lionel Legacy. Thanks for your help!

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I have tracked down exactly one photo of a cab forward pulling a passenger train and the cars were heavyweights, not streamliners. And yes, the Lionel Daylight cab forward was a fantasy scheme but one of, if not the best such scheme(s) Lionel has come up with. 

I doubt you'll find a Daylight cab forward in the aftermarket. Legacy GS-4s appear rather more often. If you are looking for steam power that is your best bet, IMHO. There's a mine of information on these Daylight trains here and on the related/linked pages: https://spdaylight.net/Welcome.html 

Someone more informed than me might tell you that with the GGD cars another engine, maybe a diesel, would be more or just as prototypical. But it's your train.

Norton posted:

Likely the only engine with paint that will match the cars is 3rd Rails own GS4. Its not Legacy but it has ERR Cruise so 100 speed steps vs 200. Better detail and correct horn and whistle to boot. Add to that a real Pittman motor vs the Canon in the Lionel Legacy engine.

Pete

100% correct, as none of the Lionel Legacy models of the SP GS-4 class are all that correct (errors range from incorrect main rods on earlier versions, too the famous Daylight ball & wing logo being backwards on one side of the skirt, to incorrect whistle, to backwards cab roof vent). The Sunset/3rd Rail GS-4 models are the most correct in 3-Rail, plus Sunset/3rd Rail offered the models in both the black styling and the red & orange Daylight styling. 

The next best SP GS-4 model would be the MTH versions (both black and red & orange, with different road numbers), in my opinion.

Last edited by Hot Water
Hancock52 posted:

I have tracked down exactly one photo of a cab forward pulling a passenger train and the cars were heavyweights, not streamliners. And yes, the Lionel Daylight cab forward was a fantasy scheme but one of, if not the best such scheme(s) Lionel has come up with. 

 

The SP was not shy about pulling passenger trains with the 4-8-8-2 cab-aheads; that was always intended as a use for them, when the weight called for it. It is entirely possible that a cab-ahead pulled a train of streamlined "yellow" cars - maybe even likely.

Lionel's yellow cab-ahead is purely fantasy, as said, and should be avoided at all costs.

(BTW, I have read - must be true! - that many of the SP engine crews and the like did indeed refer to the GS 4-8-4's as "the yellow engines", back in the day. I like the name - simple.)

Hot Water posted:
Norton posted:

Likely the only engine with paint that will match the cars is 3rd Rails own GS4. Its not Legacy but it has ERR Cruise so 100 speed steps vs 200. Better detail and correct horn and whistle to boot. Add to that a real Pittman motor vs the Canon in the Lionel Legacy engine.

Pete

100% correct, as none of the Lionel Legacy models of the SP GS-4 class are all that correct (errors range from incorrect main rods on earlier versions, too the famous Daylight ball & wing logo being backwards on one side of the skirt, to incorrect whistle, to backwards cab roof vent). The Sunset/3rd Rail GS-4 models are the most correct in 3-Rail, plus Sunset/3rd Rail offered the models in both the black styling and the red & orange Daylight styling. 

The next best SP GS-4 model would be the MTH versions (both black and red & orange, with different road numbers), in my opinion.

The MTH Premier version of the GS4 is pretty accurate. The only big missing detail I've found is that there is no bell under the smokebox door. 

MTH's GS2 and GS6 leave a bit to be desired. They use the same tooling as the GS4. Their GS2 model has GS4 80" drivers, the GS4 large main rod, an all weather cab, and the wrong tender. The GS6 is closer but has 80" drivers the large main rod from a GS4, and the front steps to the running boards are wrong. 

However MTH got the GS4 whistle pretty close, something Lionel has had an issue with lately. 

 

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D500 posted:
Hancock52 posted:

I have tracked down exactly one photo of a cab forward pulling a passenger train and the cars were heavyweights, not streamliners. And yes, the Lionel Daylight cab forward was a fantasy scheme but one of, if not the best such scheme(s) Lionel has come up with. 

 

The SP was not shy about pulling passenger trains with the 4-8-8-2 cab-aheads; that was always intended as a use for them, when the weight called for it. It is entirely possible that a cab-ahead pulled a train of streamlined "yellow" cars - maybe even likely.

Lionel's yellow cab-ahead is purely fantasy, as said, and should be avoided at all costs.

(BTW, I have read - must be true! - that many of the SP engine crews and the like did indeed refer to the GS 4-8-4's as "the yellow engines", back in the day. I like the name - simple.)

Actually the SP Enginemen referred to them as "Yellow Bellies", since the yellow color was under the side walkways.

PAUL ROMANO posted:

IMG_5961IMG_5955

Another thing that is missing from the MTH GS4 engines are the air lines on the front pilot. I bought the bell and air lines from Lionel years ago and put them on my 2008 MTH "Black Daylight" GS4.
 

Welp adding that bell to the list of parts I'm buying from Lionel during the half off sale.

How did you mount the bell? Just glue it to the underside of the smikebox?

Lou1985 posted:
PAUL ROMANO posted:

IMG_5961IMG_5955

Another thing that is missing from the MTH GS4 engines are the air lines on the front pilot. I bought the bell and air lines from Lionel years ago and put them on my 2008 MTH "Black Daylight" GS4.
 

Welp adding that bell to the list of parts I'm buying from Lionel during the half off sale.

How did you mount the bell? Just glue it to the underside of the smikebox?

Lou, I measured the bell/ bracket and air line locations on the Lionel GS4 and drilled holes to mount them.  

Last edited by PAUL ROMANO

Wow - that is a fine collection of 4449 photos. Thanks for posting.

I know that this has been raked over at length in other threads but the finish of the modern paint used on this engine is very glossy. I suppose it's some kind of urethane enamel. On the other hand, the 3rd Rail model of 4449 I have has a much more flat finish, as do the GGD cars that go with it. 

Hancock52 posted:

Wow - that is a fine collection of 4449 photos. Thanks for posting.

I know that this has been raked over at length in other threads but the finish of the modern paint used on this engine is very glossy.

The 4449 has been painted with Dupont Imron paint since the American Freedom Train (1975), and since Imron is pretty much impervious to any dirt, or other stains (we have even had to wash one side of the tender with lacquer thinner due to a fuel oil  spill), the locomotive looks much more "glossy". Back in the "old days", all the SP had was lacquer paint, which was not as "glossy", except for the first few days right out of the paint shop. The lacquer paints also faded fairly rapidly in the bright California sun.

I suppose it's some kind of urethane enamel.

Correct.

On the other hand, the 3rd Rail model of 4449 I have has a much more flat finish, as do the GGD cars that go with it. 

Which is correct for the 1940s and 1950s, depending on whether one of model the pre-war (1946 and older) "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering, or the post war (after 1946), when SP changed to the large billboard lettering on tenders,  and simply "SOUTHERN PACIFIC" on equipment. 

Unless one is modeling the 1981, and later, excursion era, when 4449 was repainted from the AFT red, white and blue, into the post was large SOUTHERN PACIFIC lettering (currently 4449 appears in her as-delivered "Southern Pacific Lines" styling), then the models should NOT be highly glossy.

 

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