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Personally, the most egregious aren't those folks with strollers, scooters, wheelchairs, or cans but rather the obnoxious, self indulgent York-goers who choose to congregate mid aisle or at aisle intersections to socialize. That's inexcusable, be considerate socialize outside the halls or in the lobbies of halls that have them.

Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:

IMO, lawmakers aren't serious in making certain handicapped designated parking spaces remain available to the handicapped rather than being used by inconsiderate, lazy impostors. 

Yes! By all means, let's create yet another costly incompetent federal bureaucracy who's sole charge is to police and prosecute offenders that unlawfully park a vehicle in one of the many hundreds of thousands of empty handicap parking spaces.

Originally Posted by C W Burfle:

 

quote:
Thanks to those literate folks who get it right.



 

 

Do you feel superior and important now?

 

Who the heck are you to judge other people's literacy?

This is a chat board, not a legal or professional document.
Nor is it a work of literature.

 

 

None of the above.  Our ability to use language is what separates us from other life forms on this planet.  The accurate use of language allows us to communicate clearly.  It's inconsiderate to repeatedly misspell or misuse a common word.  It takes only a few seconds to review something before posting it, and the computer will even do it for you if asked. 

 

I've seen items written by college graduates that the nuns would have handed back to me in 6th grade, and I'm thankful for what they taught me.

Last edited by Mallard4468

OMG Please stop it already! This thread is starting to make me sick. How old are we that some people are more concerned about spelling, handicap parking and handicap people trying to buy some trains. Lets all grow up and realize that some day you may be that person who need a little advantage getting in and out of a car or a person who is having problems walking. Give it a rest and lets talk about why we are here on the forum, LETS TALK TRAINS.  

I agree with Rich. Stop it. This a forum to talk trains and have some fun. As I have aged my typing and spelling (even with spell check) have gotten worse. I just don't see as good as I once did and my hands are not as steady so mistakes happen. I also resent the grammar and spelling police pointing out every mistake. 

 

I believe there are too many people here who think their only job is to point out wrongs (according to you) wheather it's parking spaces, strollers or spelling. So as maint (Rich) has said "stop it" let's talk trains. 

Originally Posted by david1:

I agree with Rich. Stop it. This a forum to talk trains and have some fun. As I have aged my typing and spelling (even with spell check) have gotten worse. I just don't see as good as I once did and my hands are not as steady so mistakes happen. I also resent the grammar and spelling police pointing out every mistake. 

 

I believe there are too many people here who think their only job is to point out wrongs (according to you) wheather it's parking spaces, strollers or spelling. So as maint (Rich) has said "stop it" let's talk trains. 

In the spirit of agreement, I've removed my prior posts related to handicapped parking.

Last edited by ogaugeguy
Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:
Originally Posted by Mill City:

Yes! By all means, let's create yet another costly incompetent federal bureaucracy who's sole charge is to police and prosecute offenders that unlawfully park a vehicle in one of the many hundreds of thousands of empty handicap parking spaces.

Mill City, consider yourself fortunate that in Excelsior, MN, either there aren't that many handicapped folks, the non-handicapped are considerate of those who are and would never "steal "parking spots meant for the handicapped, or Excelsior goes above and beyond in providing a ratio of handicapped spots vs. non-handicapped parking spots. Having the viewpoint you do, it's likely you're fortunate to not have handicapped family members or blessed by your creator to not yet be handicapped yourself. 

I apologize if I offended you, that certainly was not my intension. However, you have found it appropriate to make some assumptions. I have owned a 175-space parking lot and have witness first hand the abuse of reserved handicap parking spaces. The state of Minnesota mandates no less than 2% of available parking be reserved handicap parking. We had six spaces, 50% more than required. The view from my office window overlooked these six parking spaces. I can't count the many times I saw people park in one of these reserved spaces and then hop-scotch on their merry way to the front door. I finally realized that no amount of policing would alter the behavior of these inconsiderate souls. Practitioners of this parking abuse do so knowingly and willingly. Unfortunately, it's doubtful that any legal actions or otherwise will discourage them. They harbor no shame.

 

Both my parents had achieved handicapped parking permits during their ending years. I too was in-ambulant for nearly two years and at times still have moderate difficulties. Let me assure that I maintain a strong appreciation and healthy respect for anything that aids those that are in need. Be it close parking spaces, automatic doors, ramps, walkers, wheelchairs, scooters, or whatever one can think of. My wish is that others would too. What I don't wish for is a bureaucracy beyond what's already in place to enforce something that's ultimately unenforceable.

Well, getting away from the issues of handicap parking spaces and such, I think this is a good idea. Ihave not been to york for many years, however I now have two small children as well as my 9 yr old. I can't go anywhere for long without a stroller as I only have so many hands and my back can only take so much.  I like to think of myself as a responsible parent and wouldn't put my children in a position where they could knock things down or grab something, if they did I would have to pay for it, in the condition it was before said grabbing occurred.  

One of the things that comes to mind is the continous lamenting that this is an old man's hobby.  Well maybe a change like this will lead some folks see that younger people are interested.  (And by that I mean the people pushing the strollers, not riding in them.)   Now again being a responsible parent I would not try to bring my stroller during the busiest times of the show,  nor would I bring the one we normally use.  You see I have two in diapers yet, 5 months and 1.5 yrs old.  We have a single wide, two child stroller. Think pilot - copilot fighter plane style for the seating arrangment.  Now this thing is so big we actually nick-named it the Queen Mary.  But again, I wouldn't try to bring that because it takez up too much real estate.  That being said it would be a lot easier to get to the show with at least one child in tow, and having a small stroller might actually let me do that, and then I could spend some money at someone's stand, which is usually what makes people happy in this hobby.

 Better enforcement would be nice, but I don't think marshal law is necessary.

Maybe the equivalent of a meter maid at best.

Oooh darn! Gotta write a paycheck. 

 

 

In Mich. most spots have a cement post & sign.

 One guy I know, will double park, blocking you in with his van, and then laugh as he rolls himself through the front door . "Go ahead, call the cops, they like jokes too" 

 

 A note on paid event parking, and being handicapped:

 (Based on lawsuits against an upscale venue, valet service I started many years ago).

 

  You do not have the right to free parking with the handicap plate/card.

(but if you keep your mouth shut, you may not be charged)

   At a "valet only" private lot; You don't have the right to park yourself, or have your car parked closest to the doors either. If you are given an opportunity to exit the vehicle at a point near the doors with ample accessibility.

  Some custom vehicles that cannot be safely driven normally, by another driver "must" be allowed. (or if insurance forbids that too, you also better have a jack & a way to move it, so you can offer them service, a catch 22). 

 

Access is your only "right", anything more is just folks being nicer, when they can be 

  It is a fact, most insurance companies forbid anyone but employees from driving on the main lots.(so sue them, they have more money anyhow

 I estimate non-employee drivers are responsible for 50% of all venue damage.

 Other non-valet employees, do 40% more.

8% are idiots just walking by. 1% the hobo. 1% "sorry mister"

 (this says something about how some people drive and act outside at work...awful)

(at office jobs its the worst. I could have sworn a windshield wiper thief was following me around town )( One of my new cars actually made it a whole week before it was door dinged[one didn't make it 24hrs, another not 48 ]) 

 

 

 I'm not even going, and I keep having fearful thoughts of tripping and injuring a toddler with a dropped post war engine.

 I also remember I hated tight crowds till I was grown to about chest height.

Originally Posted by Mill City:
Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:
Originally Posted by Mill City:

Yes! By all means, let's create yet another costly incompetent federal bureaucracy who's sole charge is to police and prosecute offenders that unlawfully park a vehicle in one of the many hundreds of thousands of empty handicap parking spaces.

Mill City, consider yourself fortunate that in Excelsior, MN, either there aren't that many handicapped folks, the non-handicapped are considerate of those who are and would never "steal "parking spots meant for the handicapped, or Excelsior goes above and beyond in providing a ratio of handicapped spots vs. non-handicapped parking spots. Having the viewpoint you do, it's likely you're fortunate to not have handicapped family members or blessed by your creator to not yet be handicapped yourself. 

I apologize if I offended you, that certainly was not my intension. However, you have found it appropriate to make some assumptions. I have owned a 175-space parking lot and have witness first hand the abuse of reserved handicap parking spaces. The state of Minnesota mandates no less than 2% of available parking be reserved handicap parking. We had six spaces, 50% more than required. The view from my office window overlooked these six parking spaces. I can't count the many times I saw people park in one of these reserved spaces and then hop-scotch on their merry way to the front door. I finally realized that no amount of policing would alter the behavior of these inconsiderate souls. Practitioners of this parking abuse do so knowingly and willingly. Unfortunately, it's doubtful that any legal actions or otherwise will discourage them. They harbor no shame.

 

Both my parents had achieved handicapped parking permits during their ending years. I too was in-ambulant for nearly two years and at times still have moderate difficulties. Let me assure that I maintain a strong appreciation and healthy respect for anything that aids those that are in need. Be it close parking spaces, automatic doors, ramps, walkers, wheelchairs, scooters, or whatever one can think of. My wish is that others would too. What I don't wish for is a bureaucracy beyond what's already in place to enforce something that's ultimately unenforceable.

Mill City, though I removed my prior HP parking posts to not further the discussion, I feel compelled to respond to your sentiments. First, I took no umbrage to your initial post and thank you for enlightening me with your personal insights, knowledge, and involvement with handicapped parking.

I too, had both parents confined to walkers and wheelchairs in their final years and currently my wife and sister similarly require handicap parking to ease their physical burdens.

It is exactly the hop scotching abuse by healthy drivers which you've noted that irks me too. I don't advocate additional laws as I agree that would do little to curb abuse. However I mentioned in a post now removed, if placards have a photo of the person it is intended for then perhaps some abusers might be embarrassed if seen using a placard obviously intended for others, (if only because they're aware other drivers seeking parking might publicly call then out for parking in a spot not intended for them. Albeit, photo placards might still not be a formidable deterrent for most HP parking abusers, if it caused just a few abusers to reconsider and stop abusing HP parking privileges, it might be worth the slight additional cost of placing photos on HP placards.

Thank you for your enligthening civil response to my earlier post

Originally Posted by eddie g:

That's enough about strollers in the halls. Just live with it. NO big deal. I'm 85 & I have no problem with it, or anything else blocking the aisles.

The posts about strollers in the halls seem to now be heavily outnumbered by handicapped parking horror stories and laws pertaining to such.

 

Nothing any of us can do about it between now and October.  We'll just have to sit tight and see how it plays out.

 

-Dave

So much angst for something so inconsequential. It's so much easier to take the high road and be courteous to everyone, whether they are in a wheel chair, scooter, pushing a stroller or on foot. When you attend any event with over 10,000 attendees do you really expect not to get bumped into?!

 

We're all tough guys who can take it!  We're model railroaders dang it!

 

Everyone just go to the Meet and have a good time and say hello when you see me. 

I nominate this thread for "Thread of the Year."

 

More nonsensical comments here than you can put in a grammer teachur's notepad.

 

BTW, my favorite Yorkie is the one who does not put a price on his item. Then, when you ask the price ( "Oh that 2343 ABA is $8,000" ) and realize the fellow is serious and raise your eyebrows, he gets angry. "Price too high? Make an offer."

 

 

 

 

For a bunch of guys who spend a lot of time complaining about their dying hobby you all are completely unwilling to make concessions to allow for the younger generation to enter. The more strollers, the merrier. Ive we are going to keep our hobby alive we need to bring more children in

Eastern Division sets the rules. My thoughts on the rules are irrelevant.  If I don't like the rules I can:

 

  • join the Eastern Division and attempt to effect change following their bylaws,
  • choose to not attend York to show my displeasure
  • attend York anyway and honor the rules as their guest
  • be a jerk and disregard them on purpose while I attend the meet

I choose the third option.  

 

--Greg

Frankly, aside from reading this thread for its cause celebre qualities, than for any need to mull over such faux-horrors as the necessary presence of strollers and/or motorized-whatevers at such a venue, thinking of this would not have occurred to me.

 

Instead, may I suggest using the same strategy one uses when walking through a grocery store or down a busy sidewalk or throughout a shopping mall - simply use the same courtesy and consideration. We each give and take a little space as the path takes us, sometimes moving left when we might have gone right, or right when we might have gone left, sometimes giving space and right-of-way, and sometimes holding our ground. I have not bumped into anybody in my life (though the highways seem to insist on being the exception from time to time, for all of us.)

 

Of course, one watches out for the nutcases, and it would appear our beloved hobby is not bereft of those characters, is  it.

 

Go through some medical problems and come out at the other end of them feeling and being whole; then, see what "issues" get you cranky or exorcized. Relax. There is a great deal for which to be thankful. Be glad - be very, very glad - you are able to be present @ York and shop a little and see nice people. Don't let any contraption, person-energized or motorized, take up any of your time or peace. Make up your mind to be nice, pleasant and courteous. That will take away most woes, I trust.

FrankM.

There are much nicer places to walk. Keep in mind you have to share walking space just about everywhere.  The black stuff is from grizzly bears, you are to be making a fair amount of noise to let them know you are coming.  Carts and buggies were optional. Highline trail, Glacier National Park.

I was lucky with my very early morning hike, these guys were willing to share the trail.

Most cases, you are require to carry Bear Mace, though I've never had to use it.  Probably wouldn't be a good idea at York. 

 

 

Last edited by Mike CT

Going for hikes into the outback can be dangerous, you have to be cautious, some folk recommend bringing along little bells to attach to your bag and/or whistles so as to not startle the Bears. You should also, always look out for bear droppings, the smaller dropping what have bits of nuts and berries in are a sign of the smaller black bear, the larger grizzly dropping are easily identified....they will have little bits of bells and whistles in.....

 

 

 

Originally Posted by terry hudon:

being handicapped is totally different than a stroller,,,,,yes we need to attract young people but if they need a stroller ,then I believe they are too young,,to attend,i wouldn't want my  child in that mad mass of people,,,i can see it now ,,,I can hear the lady on the mic,,,,traffic jam in the blue hall,,,,will you please move either the stroller or the scooter now !!!!!

Terry,

Might I suggest a cane with a hooked handle. It works wonders in the adult crotch when clearing an aisle.

 

Originally Posted by Scrapiron Scher:

I nominate this thread for "Thread of the Year."

 

More nonsensical comments here than you can put in a grammer teachur's notepad.

Eliot,

Now you know why it is no longer taught in our public schools.

Airedale when me and my buddys went to Alaska back in the 80s the guy at the outfitters store in Hunt Valley talked us into buying "bear bells" to attach to our backpacks. He said the sound would let the bears hear us from a distance and they would disappear before we even saw them. When we got to Denali the rangers at the check in station said to us" I see you got the dinner bells." Apparently the bears knew the sound meant campers and campers meant food.

 

Jerry

Originally Posted by baltimoretrainworks:

Airedale when me and my buddys went to Alaska back in the 80s the guy at the outfitters store in Hunt Valley talked us into buying "bear bells" to attach to our backpacks. He said the sound would let the bears hear us from a distance and they would disappear before we even saw them. When we got to Denali the rangers at the check in station said to us" I see you got the dinner bells." Apparently the bears knew the sound meant campers and campers meant food.

 

Jerry

 

Thats about it Jerry!!.....which begs the question:- should one take strollers into the outback? 

Originally Posted by Prewar Pappy:
Originally Posted by Mill City:
Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:

IMO, lawmakers aren't serious in making certain handicapped designated parking spaces remain available to the handicapped rather than being used by inconsiderate, lazy impostors. 

Yes! By all means, let's create yet another costly incompetent federal bureaucracy who's sole charge is to police and prosecute offenders that unlawfully park a vehicle in one of the many hundreds of thousands of empty handicap parking spaces.

YES! By all means. I hope and pray that individuals that make these comments need and cannot find a empty handicap parking space someday. Then maybe you will understand the logic behind the ADA.

Pappy, perhaps you should have familiarize yourshelf with the entire exchange before going off. For your convenience:

 

Originally Posted by Mill City:
Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:
Originally Posted by Mill City:

Yes! By all means, let's create yet another costly incompetent federal bureaucracy who's sole charge is to police and prosecute offenders that unlawfully park a vehicle in one of the many hundreds of thousands of empty handicap parking spaces.

Mill City, consider yourself fortunate that in Excelsior, MN, either there aren't that many handicapped folks, the non-handicapped are considerate of those who are and would never "steal "parking spots meant for the handicapped, or Excelsior goes above and beyond in providing a ratio of handicapped spots vs. non-handicapped parking spots. Having the viewpoint you do, it's likely you're fortunate to not have handicapped family members or blessed by your creator to not yet be handicapped yourself. 

I apologize if I offended you, that certainly was not my intension. However, you have found it appropriate to make some assumptions. I have owned a 175-space parking lot and have witness first hand the abuse of reserved handicap parking spaces. The state of Minnesota mandates no less than 2% of available parking be reserved handicap parking. We had six spaces, 50% more than required. The view from my office window overlooked these six parking spaces. I can't count the many times I saw people park in one of these reserved spaces and then hop-scotch on their merry way to the front door. I finally realized that no amount of policing would alter the behavior of these inconsiderate souls. Practitioners of this parking abuse do so knowingly and willingly. Unfortunately, it's doubtful that any legal actions or otherwise will discourage them. They harbor no shame.

 

Both my parents had achieved handicapped parking permits during their ending years. I too was in-ambulant for nearly two years and at times still have moderate difficulties. Let me assure that I maintain a strong appreciation and healthy respect for anything that aids those that are in need. Be it close parking spaces, automatic doors, ramps, walkers, wheelchairs, scooters, or whatever one can think of. My wish is that others would too. What I don't wish for is a bureaucracy beyond what's already in place to enforce something that's ultimately unenforceable.

Mill City, though I removed my prior HP parking posts to not further the discussion, I feel compelled to respond to your sentiments. First, I took no umbrage to your initial post and thank you for enlightening me with your personal insights, knowledge, and involvement with handicapped parking.

I too, had both parents confined to walkers and wheelchairs in their final years and currently my wife and sister similarly require handicap parking to ease their physical burdens.

It is exactly the hop scotching abuse by healthy drivers which you've noted that irks me too. I don't advocate additional laws as I agree that would do little to curb abuse. However I mentioned in a post now removed, if placards have a photo of the person it is intended for then perhaps some abusers might be embarrassed if seen using a placard obviously intended for others, (if only because they're aware other drivers seeking parking might publicly call then out for parking in a spot not intended for them. Albeit, photo placards might still not be a formidable deterrent for most HP parking abusers, if it caused just a few abusers to reconsider and stop abusing HP parking privileges, it might be worth the slight additional cost of placing photos on HP placards.

Thank you for your enligthening civil response to my earlier post

 

ogaugeguy TCA

Last edited by Mill City

For those handicapped.  Note that Glacier National Park allows for motor access to the tops of the mountains, (Going to the Sun road). Logan Pass visitors center is completely handicap accessed.  There is handicap access to Hidden Lake from the Logan Pass visitors center.  A wonderful experience for everyone.

Hidden lake view from handicap access.

Note that the bears don't read as well as you and me.

 

Last edited by Mike CT
Originally Posted by Prewar Pappy:

YES! By all means. I hope and pray that individuals that make these comments need and cannot find a empty handicap parking space someday. 

I'm confused. With one hand you dispense God's Blessings, while with the other you hope and pray ill will upon others. The last line of your tag seams to suggests your contradiction.

 

God's Blessings,

"Pappy"

 

The Only Thing Consistent Is Inconsistency.

                         

Last edited by Mill City

Would anyone mind bears being pushed in strollers (with a handicapped sticker) around the shows?

 

I hope we get a in depth report on the show? Someone reading this who has a stroller and is thinking about going will have to have a good game plan! Sort out the goodies from the baddies!........it could get ugly.  

 

Bit like this thread.

 

 

And don't step on one of these while walking around they don't appreciate it!

Isn't he lovely I snapped it from about a metre away on a track he was sunny himself and was lazy.

I feel for disabled people at these shows I was like that once walking around on crutches for months in 1970 as the results of a AK47 bullet from old Charlie hitting my femur and splitting it and even in those days to even catch a train nobody would help you in fact you run the risk of getting pushed over if someone was running to catch the same train. Until you are disabled you don't appreciate the problems these people have, lucky I recovered physical anyway, and can walk normally again with inserts in my shoes.

Roo

Snake

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  • Snake

I nominate this thread for "Thread of the Year."

 

More nonsensical comments here than you can put in a grammer teachur's notepad.

 

Well it gets my vote I actually had a laugh at some of the replies everybody lost control of themselves it's what the computer does to people it changes people into raving slaves of the internet.

Now back to serious business....Staging the layout for tomorrows session.

Can't wait to post some train stuff tomorrow!!!!!

Thanks.

Roo

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