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ADA (American's with Disabilities Act) has been around for a long time.  Probably dates to Ronald Reagan as president. 


A couple of notes. 


Teton National Park has a public access  cable-tram that will carry anyone to the top of the Teton Mts.  Part of the 50 million spent on the project has to be ADA.  Recent news from the Grand Canyon about a blind hiker who did a double rim to rim hike in one day.   Another Grand Canyon story about a paraplegic, with his family, who did a hike to the bottom and back.   A lot can be done even with handicaps, IMO.


It has taken quite awhile, but at this point in time, many large scale remodel projects, that I have worked on, incorporate some, if not all, ADA requirements.   Not uncommon to see elevators added to relatively old buildings.  Last (three) Church remodels, that I worked on, had elevators install, as did one new car showroom.


We have been painting the blue handicapped parking on lots for a long long time.


IMO, ADA will change the classic small town main street look, that is the OGR Ameri-town model Series.  Many old multi-story buildings, just are not upgrade-able to ADA standards. In the next 15 to 20 years you will see a lot of empty holes in those old main streets.   IMO.   Mike CT   

Last edited by Mike CT

Being a hiker (we call ourselves Bushwalkers), that is a good story Mike.

I'm going out next month for a couple of weeks for a bit of a stroll down the south coast of West Australia.

Still be cold and wet but how long do you wait???

I've got the layout staged for tomorrow, so I strolled over to this, this, this, computer. I was going to use profanity but I resisted, would have been censored anyway.

Keep up the good work mate.


Originally Posted by baltimoretrainworks:
Originally Posted by Moonson:

may I suggest using the same strategy one uses when walking through a grocery store or down a busy sidewalk or throughout a shopping mall - simply use the same courtesy and consideration. 

Moonson, that's just crazy talk!



Thanks, Jerry, I appreciate your sense of humor.


It was totally worth it.


I may as well be about lions, and tigers, and bears, oh my.
Originally Posted by richabr:

Went to a Greenberg show today and if it was any indication of what York may become, I may need a weapon or drugs.

Could you elaborate?


  I just remembered something funny.

 I was once running late, and I pulled into the handicap spot nearest the door, opened the glove box, and pulled out the handicap parking card to hang from the rearview.

 I jumped out quickly, and moved towards the door, around a little construction and in the lot some idiot is yelling obscenities. I continue briskly inside to attend to my business.

 It took a while looking, but I had the right floor.

  I heard the obscenities guy again....

Ah there's the hall, ...six rooms down on the right.

 Louder obscenities approached...

One; two; three; "HEY YOU!" four... five... hi Ddd! What In the #&^% are you doing using that card and parking in handicapped parking you....

(insert rage)

(insert my ignoring someone)...... lets see where was I? Oh yea...Hi Dad, here are your keys, I'm in a hurry, but I'll see you later, I am going to picked up in a minute.

  I then turned to the "gentleman" on my way out, and said "talk guy it the wheelchair, it's his".

   Assume.!.? Ahhh never mind, you know the joke 








Handicapped has nothing to do with what seems like many of today's inconsiderate and brain dead parents. Many strollers at todays meet, most of them unoccupied. Kids wandering uncontrolled and for the most part unsupervised, handling and playing with trains that were on the tables. Pity for the tableholders. Strollers controlled by many parents who made mind boggling changes of direction without a care in the world. Most of them probably exhibit the same behavior while on the road. Only got run into 3X in aisles the size of the orange hall. I can't imagine what it would be like in the member halls. It's not necessarily the strollers but the fools that control them. Since Greenberg's is a public show, I'm hoping the TCA members have more manners and consideration.

Originally Posted by C W Burfle:

 I'm hoping the TCA members have more manners and consideration.


TCA members come from all walks of life. Some do, and some don't.

As I posted very early in this thread, if strollers present a problem, as they did before, then the ban will be reinstated.


I've been at a number of shows with my modules, and the worst was a TCA York meet in the Black Hall. One woman was grabbing 1:43 cars off of the module "for a better look", and a guy was writing a note using our station parking lot as a "table".

Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:

Personally, the most egregious aren't those folks with strollers, scooters, wheelchairs, or cans but rather the obnoxious, self indulgent York-goers who choose to congregate mid aisle or at aisle intersections to socialize. That's inexcusable, be considerate socialize outside the halls or in the lobbies of halls that have them.

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

LOG JAM in AISLE GG in the Silver Hall. Abandoned stroller. All traffic at a halt. Cant wait for that announcement over the PA system
I agree with you the aisles are tough enough to negotiate!!
Originally Posted by Marty Fitzhenry:

I am against it.  Walking the aisles is tough enough.  I would not want to be the person who made that decision.  Wrong on all counts.  When the child reaches out and pulls something valuable to the floor, who is going to eat that loss?  The halls are tough enough to get through.  


Keep hearing about the "KID PULLING THINGS DOWN" argument. Claims are made that it has happened in events that allow strollers but never any first person accounts. Is this also the same kid we all heard about in grade school who cut his fingers off with the paper cutter? No one has ever seen him do it, no one knows of any fingerless kid because of it and no one can even give you a name or date when it happened. When we were younger we used to call this Old Guy Making Crap Up. The circuitous argument that starts with me trying to sharpen a pencil with a spoon and the end result is Hitler gets cloned and Germany finally prevails in it's attempt to rule the world. Some people just don't want strollers in the halls for what ever petty personal reason so they make wild claims about some horrendous disaster that will happen if it's allowed and they back it up with at best sketchy data. Remember all the arguments against pictures and phones and all the similar disasters that would happen? Never did happen did they?



I believe that the no phone (two way radio) rule was needed 50 years ago. To prevent groups of people from buying bargains quickly. I think that reason is invalid at this time.


No pictures allowed was for security reasons for the individual. Security needs change with time. Do you put your name and address on the web? OGR website? Times you are going to York? Think security on this rule.


I think the current Photo rule is OK. Assuming the picture taker doesn't block up the aisles too much.

Claims are made that it has happened in events that allow strollers but never any first person accounts.


I have personally witnessed folks stumbling, and nearly falling over strollers at York. A accident waiting to happen. That was a long time ago, before strollers were banned.

Will there be problems? - I don't know, the show has evolved. If there are problems, I assume the ban will be reinstated.


Is anybody going to stay home because strollers are allowed?


Yes but did they stumble over a stroller because of the strollers fault or their own fault? Was this a one time occurrence or are we taking dozens of times at each York? I can't count how many times at York someone has walked into me or someone else because they weren't watching where they were walking, and don't even get me started on the scooter people who merrily will run into you and over your foot and give you the evil eye for having the audacity to shoot them a dirty look. If people had more situational awareness there wouldn't be a need for things like this, I mean how many times do you see someone fall over a stroller in a store or somewhere else?



Amazing that this thread made the month of August. Original post was August 4th.  And the world is a better place.  

Those attending the York experience, please have fun. Plan ahead, there is a lot of walking, best to get a few miles in before you get there.   

Mike CT

Please note my avatar, I do hike with canes, though I prefer to call them walking sticks. There are advantages, mostly downhill.  I have always left the walking sticks home, anytime I attended York.   

Last edited by Mike CT
Originally Posted by C W Burfle:

If I saw one, then there had to be many more.


You asked for a first person account, you got one.

One and that's all, you can't extrapolate "there had to be more if I saw one". I've been to train shows that allowed strollers, outdoor expos, boat shows, fishing shows, skiing shows, carnivals, state fairs, crowded stores and I've never once seen or heard of the cataclysmic events foretold here because of strollers. Maybe if people weren't walking along at York looking for their long lost pal or that Holy Graile item with single minded myoptic determination then maybe we wouldn't have any problems. I've had more than one encounter with these "wandering souls" plowing into me than I've ever had with any strollers anywhere. As for a tripping hazard, OSHA and the law don't define strollers as such, now boxes in the aisles, feet sticking out from chairs in the aisle, power cords, surface changes like a rug to tile floor etc. are tripping hazards. If they were considered tripping hazards most places including stores and malls wouldn't allow them. We heard the same arguments about cameras, blocking aisles, rearranging and knocking things over for a good picture and cell phones, blocking aisles, not paying attention to where they were walking and knocking people into displays or knocking over displays themselves. These haven't come to pass and I really don't think that WGAL will be reporting on any Child Crushed In Train Show Accident At York stories because of this.



Last edited by baltimoretrainworks

I've had more than one encounter with these "wandering souls" plowing into me than I've ever had with any strollers anywhere. I can't count how many times at York someone has walked into me or someone else because they weren't watching where they were walking, and don't even get me started on the scooter people who merrily will run into you and over your foot and give you the evil eye for having the audacity to shoot them a dirty look.


No matter what is additionally "allowed" in the halls, you can't fix stupid. That's why certain things are/should be banned so the "stupids" won't get a chance to exercise their "rights".


The only hate mail you will get from me is when the Jets play the Patriots! Let's give York a try on the stroller decision and see what transpires. You  know in years to come, we are going to have motor scooter races at the track by the grandstands on Friday right after the OGR grandstand meeting with Ed Boyle starting the races and Rich Melvin with the winners flag. Lol! Just think about it as the hobby ages some more? 

Originally Posted by Bob Rumer:

Are these allowed? 


Well sure!!


(Cue up opening theme song from movie "JAWS"...) 


Re the original post, I believe this eager participant was photographed crossing Carlisle Ave. on her way to the April York!!!...





Looks like a 4-2-0 to me!




BTW...The 'driver' in the pink dress was observed to be packing one of these....



air horn


...perhaps for clogged aisles???


Images (2)
  • segway-baby-stroller
  • air horn
Last edited by dkdkrd

Unfortunately you can't make make rules regarding stupidity, self-centeredness, or being oblivious to others. As long at there are attendees who exhibit such behaviors, be they walking on foot, or traversing hall isles in wheelchairs, scooters, or pushing strollers, there will be collisions, bumps, and associated bruises. The only true guardian against such unfortunate happenings isn't by establishing rules but by all attendees being considerate of others and the likelihood of that occurring 100% of the time is nil.

Originally Posted by colorado hirailer:

Whattt!!??  I can't bring my three-wide stroller with my darling, but sometimes grabby,

little triplets?  I can watch them MOST of the time.

Cute. (I know you're being facetious, so I'll play along with ya'...)...Ohhhh, you can bring 'em, all right, six little arms all a-reachin' and a-grabbin', and six li'l legs all a-kickin', but if I were you, I'd bring plenty of cash, then, also, huh. Remember the York Motto: You break it, you bought it.

I think that perhaps there could be regular traffic announcements: "Here is your York Meet traffic report for 10 A.M......There is an stroller accident on isle G in the Orange hall...wrecking crews are on site, expect delays, Suggest you take an alternate route.....There is a back up at the door at the Brown hall..15 min. delays.....Gray hall is experiencing rolling delays every 30 minutes due to 'wandering souls"...plan accordingly..." 


Conductor Earl




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