Studio Shots: PSC Pullman Solarium Observation

Sweet! 

A little marvel of precision. Amazing details, underneath.

Yves

I sure hope someone will produce more brass heavyweights, it seems there's an appetite for them.  They don't last long when they come up for sale. 

This car is a good candidate for interior detailing as well as sound and lighting decoder. Maybe I'll be able to make interchangeable rectangular tail signs. 

I wish GGD would make the Solarium cars.

I will follow this new project carefully! 

jpv in France

Santiago - As a PRR modeler, I share your interest in the Burlington plan 3964 solariums as they were reassigned by Pullman to the PRR in 1944 and were renamed  State Legion, Honor Legion, and Loyal Legion.  On 12/31/45 the PRR purchased the cars from Pullman and they served until retired in 1956.  I matched your photo of the CB&Q prototype to plans published in the  Pullman Passenger Car Catalog book (published  by Kratville, 1968).  Three prototype cars (Burlington House, Burlington Light, Burlington Route) were built to Pullman Plan 3964B and listed as lounge or parlor cars.  The floor plan was very unusual -  6 chairs in the "sun parlor", 35 chairs and a settee in the "general lounge room, 2 "open" sleeper sections, 11 chairs and a sofa in a central lounge, 5 chars, 2 settee's, and a sofa in the "woman's lounge", and a small food preparation "Buffet".  If you don't have a copy of the floor plan I can attempt to scan mine and send it to you. Comparing the prototype plan and photos with those of the PSC brass model there are several difference.

- the prototype had a 7' 5" wide deck clerestory roof which was common to many Pullman heavyweight parlor cars - as opposed to the 5' 11" standard width clerestory roof used on most Pullman heavyweight sleepers (and PSC models).

- the prototype did not have windows on the vestibule end of the car - only the sun room end

- the prototype was ice air conditioned (very large ice chests) while the PSC model has very nice Pullman Mechanical AC gear

- The proportions of the sun room windows differ from the prototype (the prototypes were taller than they were wide).

 To the best of my knowledge no O scale model of a plan 3964 parlor car has ever been commercially offered (wonder if custom builder Joe Fischer ever did one for a client??).  Your PSC solarium is the only brass car of it's type in O scale and other than a American Standard Car Co plan 3989A resin body kit, the closest model to the Burlington prototype. 

I look forward to following your progress on the Forum.

Santiago

Now that you have read Ed's comments , are you going to put this car out on ebay?

Good luck!

Ed, as always you are correct with the amazing feedback you provide, thank you. I was aware of the compromises this car presents. But like you said, this is the best car we have in O. In an ideal world, someone would offer a DL-3 solarium.

Glick's book also documents the transition to the PRR, but the plans don't match this car. If you could send me a pic of the plans even a quick cellphone photo I'd appreciate it. Glick's book doesn't have good side photos of the Light, Route and House cars. If you can share some with me I'd also appreciate it. You can send them to santiagop23@hotmail.com.

Another option would be a traditional heavyweight Observation Car like MT. Yale.

My WP harriman is off too, I know that. What's the option? Scratch build. I'm researching the RG 1000 series coaches, that will be my first scratch build. This car is close enough, and I enjoy the challenge. Upgrading or modifying is also less expensive, in every sense, than scratch building.

The Burlington series solarium cars were used for a very short time on the Expo summer 39-42 or so without looking at the book which I don’t have handy I could not say for sure as the standard cars were the DL3. Sadly the DL3 is a full scratch project that I’m considering since I have the drawings from Sam Tech when we did them in HO.

Anyway Ed, I had no idea you were such a closet CB&Q aficionado. ;-)

I built mine to Burlington House and did the following modifications to better match the prototype. I left the bars on the solarium paired side windows since they used a storm window over them as seen in the photo posted by Santiago taken by Otto Perry on the Aristo.

The window arrangements on the sides are very different due to the placement of the smoking room and parlor versus the state rooms in the PRR cars. I left them alone and did some creative work on the interior. It’s what we have right?

The vestibule end I filled the windows with styrene before painting. AC equipment I left along at some point maybe I will adjust. As far as Joe Fischer building this car according to Jim Seacrest he did for a client in Minnesota weather or not Jim was able to procure I have no idea I did not see it on the auction last year however I did manage to get the beautiful 1550 series baggage car he did for this client at great effort and years of diligent effort.

Santiago you could pull the sides off and redo them to the correct floor plan and shorten the solarium room add the stainless trim and fake gate.

The drum heads on the Expo according to both Jim and Roger Clark both Nebraskans as kids in the 1940’s recall the drumheads having a white with blue glow of the Expo logo. It would be nice to get this done soon myself. Perhaps we both finish up our cars together?

Great post this is why I participate on here. And what this hobby is all about. The passion for the trains, history, and the desire to build!

I added some quick shots I had in my iCloud of my project. Hope they are of some help. I would have responded earlier but feeding a 2 month old takes command over this. I will see if I can shoot some photos of my car if I get time. On the note about the DL3 I tried very hard to get some reservations to get them built. I needed 50 models that could be several different cars and it’s still out there. At $1500 a car I simply can’t get anyone to step up. Not enough die hard Burlington fans to pull it off. The HO guys paid $800 a car! 

Fred Lundgren posted:

Santiago

Now that you have read Ed's comments , are you going to put this car out on ebay?

Good luck!

No, but thanks for the suggestion!

SantiagoP23,

Don't forget Delta Models Usa for more detailed interior parts

http://www.deltamodelsusa.com/hw-pullman

Erik, I consider you my mentor and I've always admired your car. The paintjob is Korean FP quality for sure! I'd be happy to team up and finish the cars together. Thanks for posting those Glick's treasures. The DP project falling flat still hurts tho.

Ed, I got your email. Thank you!

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

SantiagoP23,

Don't forget Delta Models Usa for more detailed interior parts

http://www.deltamodelsusa.com/hw-pullman

Yes, thanks!

Here is a image of the floor plan for the Pullman  4964 solariums (Burlington Light, Burlington House, Burlington Route, and Burlington Bridge built in 1926).  It's interesting to correlate the floor plan with the interior photos posted by Eric - note the Women's Lounging Room - times sure have changed!  

The dates of their renaming into the PRR assigned  "Legion" series are a little confusing.   A PRR related articles I have states that the name change  occurred in 1944, while Eric's reference states 1932.  A 1937 listing of Pullman owned cars has the cars still with the Burlington names.  Given that and a military related name I'd bet on the WWII 1944 date.  

Eric - you've outed me!  I lived in Aurora Il several blocks above the CB&Q station while working for Bell Labs and going to grad school in 1966/8.  On sunny days I'd wheel my baby daughter down to the station to see the combined Twin Cities Zephyr/North Coast Limited/Empire Builder pass through town.  Long train - lots of different paint schemes, 4 CB&Q E units running elephant style.  By contrast the PRR Chicago trains were blah.       

  Excited to see the end results Santiago, The protocraft couplers and air and steam lines have already made a difference.   I see these cars go buy on Ebay regularly about 2 to 4 a year and always for more money.  I started out looking for Mr. Rappe's car also a Pullman  8 section buffet, solarium ala PRR.  I ended up with this car in a trade for 20 plus brass cars out of Olpe  Kansas from an estate several years back.  Its close and I was going to live with it like everybody else.  Then I found on evilbait the Walthers car I had been searching already started by a master, Named Arthur J Hambric,  I paid way to much but the quality of the build is stupendous and Now I am torn between  Ham's original  intentions,  He was building a copy of the one car Washington Club for the Atlantic Coast Line which is on display at the Atlanta railway museum,  and my own desire for a PRR model.  Still have not made up my mind.

  Joe Fischer did build an accurate PRR version as I saw it sell on Evilbait for around 1100. bucks a few years back, and have viewed pics shot by Mr. Fischer of the cars in PRR livery also an in depth article by Peter Tilp,

 with drawings in an older Keystone,  Vol. 22  No. 2. Plan 3989.  Here are pics of Hams, started car.

 When I know a guy is building a specific train and I see or have a car that fits, its only natural to steer said car in the appropriate direction. After all it is a community, and we all know Santiago will do this car justice, and share pics of the process.  Good luck on your impending build and we all look forward to the end result.

  Your friend in Nebraska, Aterry11

 A question for Ed,   Didn't PRR also have a Parlor ,buffet solarium car also? I believe the floor plan had the Buffet kitchen in the middle of the car.  I remember seeing a Fischer car like this sell for around 900. plus some years back on evilbait, would you know the plan #?

 Fischer built Loyal Legion lot 249 Stout auctions website as well as lots of other Fischer cars and Burlington goodies.

There were quite a few different classes of heavyweight solarium (sun room) passenger cars in addition to the 3964 "Legion" cars we have been sharing info on.  By quick count in the Pullman Car Catalog I found 11 different floor plans/window arrangements featuring end window sun rooms. Most plans have the buffet located in the center of the car.  Some were mostly chair/parlor cars, while other classes  had a larger area of the car allocated to sleeping accommodations.  Solariums came in 2 or 3 tall windows/side variations.  In addition to the PSC solarium car, at one time American Standard Car Company cataloged 2 resin side solarium kits:

Plan 3975 - 3 Compartment . 1 Drawing room, Buffet, sun room (3 tall windows) - wide deck roof

P3989A -  8 sections, buffet, sun room (2 tall windows) - wide deck roof

I was fortunate to find a built up American Standard Car Company 3992 solarium at last years Chicago show and it's now in the queue at Dan Pantera's Calumet Shops for updating to a postwar PRR air conditioned configuration lettered for University Club - patience Ed.   

“This good, human”

Great stuff guys, thanks for participating 

Looking at the sepia photos posted by Eric C, I wonder what were the true colors of these interiors? Marquetry on the walls? Laquered ceiling according to a photo, I think. And the checked carpet?

Lovely cat!

jpv in France

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Almost thought that was real! That angle of the video was sweet. Its a shame the audio got all distorted.

So Erik, How did you manage to Photoshop that ceiling joint into that footage of the real train?

Simon

Among the huge number of cars and locomotives (1000+ across 512 lots) from the Jim Seacrest collection coming up for bid on April 6 at Stout Auctions is a Joe Fischer custom built model of PRR solarium Loyal Legion.  The car is listed as Lot 249.  This plan 3964 car was formerly one of the Burlington series solariums. While the underbody detail isn't up to PSC brass standards - the windows and ice air AC details would be correct for a Burlington solarium in the plan 3964 family.  

A batch of SCD goodies to move some (this included) projects forward

Awesome Santiago 

Resumed work today... I’ll try my best to keep you updated... this is a special project for me and I want to give it my full attention...

Today I removed the clear coat, this will ensure better soldering work during the build.

Standard PSC door gone!

Looking great Santiago! I can't wait to see the final result.

Bryce

This grandt line door will make for a decent stand in...

Progress... I think I like the modified door better...

All tentative... lounge needs we writing desks and interior Glass partition... 

The final layout will be an approximation of this one...

@SANTIAGOP23 posted:

All tentative... lounge needs we writing desks and interior Glass partition... 

Did you have to make the brass floor and interior walls?

Some soldering work today... 

I added the steps support brackets, coupler lift bar brackets, added larger chains and moved the rear grab irons as per prototype to make room for the drumheads... I’m going to see if I can make a bumper next....

Think this will work... God I love brass!

Santiago, beautiful!

Dan Weinhold

Thanks, Dan!