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Sent in my F40 because it fried the number board with the flywheel rubbing the wires. It was practically new, maybe and hour of run time on it. For reasons I don’t understand, it looks like your guys pried the switch hatch off with a screwdriver, leaving an awesome looking gash in the roof down to the plastic. The opposite side of the hatch is also torn up.  (Why did you even mess with the hatch? The whole shell needed to come off anyways?)

Also found a hose busted off loose in the box that was nicely attached to the pilot when I sent it out. Naturally it’s been snapped off flush so it can’t be reattached.

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This is NOT the first time your guys have smashed something up when I’ve sent it in. I guess I’ll be calling Monday for a new locomotive that looks more like the one I sent to you.  I’m not gonna send it back so someone can brush paint the roof.

Its bad enough the stuff doesn’t work when you buy it, but this is above and beyond careless. 

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Last edited by Rich Melvin
Original Post

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Because the F40 issues were extremely well publicized.  Dave’s instructions to the forum were to send them back for “repair”. So when someone does what they ask, and you get it back in worse condition then you sent it, why would you not share it?

Fully intend to get a hold of them Monday or Tuesday if they observe the holiday. It’s saturday night, only available avenue is to complain on the forum.  

 

Last edited by Boilermaker1

Although I have had no problems with Lionel's repair doing the repair, I have noticed slight paint scratches or other minor damage on shells and attached items when I get the engine back. I usually just rub it out or fine sand it down and touch-up or glue it back on.

Given the short turn-around, I guess they have too many repairs and too few repair techs to take proper care or glove-handle when handling the engines. They dont seem to treat your engines like they are their engines.

So I guess there is a trade-off when you want a repair by Lionel. That sounds bad, but I accept a complex electronic repair for a few handling blemishes.

86TA355SR posted:

Not sure why you would post this in a public place, might have been better to deal with this in private/directly with Lionel...

 

understand your frustration, I had a 2-8-0 that was a mess. 

His post is valid and in the right "public venue".  Glad he posted it.  We need to know what the "risk is" in sending a warrant item to Lionel techs for repair - even beyond what the transporting entity  might do to it coming and going!

My SD40's didn't work properly out of the box and after two trips to Lionel they still won't "lash-up" smoothly. Also, they came back to me with chipped paint, broken handrails, and other detail parts missing each time.

When I brought this to their attention, they blamed me for not packaging it properly, which is not true.

I'm not happy about it and I don't mind saying so publicly.

AlanRail posted:

Given the short turn-around, I guess they have too many repairs and too few repair techs to take proper care or glove-handle when handling the engines.

Can't tell if you're being facetious or not. Honestly I'd rather it take longer if I received my repaired train in the same shape I sent it in, rather than a fast turnaround time that causes me to sand/paint/glue when it returned to me.

Better a little which is well done, than a great deal imperfectly. - Plato

Last edited by Deuce

The two times I have sent an item to Lionel for warranty repair, it was repaired very quickly and returned in the same condition it was sent, so I guess I've been lucky.

I suppose it does make sense to take some quick pictures from all sides of an item being sent back for warranty repair (to Lionel or any other vendor), so if there is some issue or damage once the item is returned... you'll have the "before" pictures to prove something was damaged, etc.

Troubling but I would want to hear Lionel’s explanation before getting out the wood and the nails.  Some of the damage complained of here is so blatant (remember that fellow with the MTH turbo train with parts floating around in the box - the accusation was that MTH broke it and sent it back that way) that Lionel staff would have to be idiots to send t back that way because it is going to get caught, the customer will be seriously ****ed, and in the era of social media everyone will hear about it.  Not smart.  Because I generally don’t assume idiocy from other seemingly rational adults, I would like to hear all the facts.

I cannot see the damage that well other than to see it is a scratch but I would, in all these cases that are very blatant, suspect shipping damage.

Lionel also does seem to have an issue with its manufacturing contractors that it needs to correct.  Too many horror stories here for there to be nothing here.  I wish them well in getting it right as they are an important part of the hobby. 

Last edited by Ray Lombardo

We can't discount less-than-great shipping practices when returning stuff to LIONEL.

I hope you guys aren't just shipping these things back to Lionel in their "shipper" sleeve...that's pushing your luck for sure.

Gotta double box - and make sure it's a system they can re-use easily when returning your train.

You'd think they would note apparent shipping damage on inspection - like "hatch appears to have popped off in shipping with possible paint damage." - just to CYA.

I just want to say that BOILERMAKER is right in bringing the issue here.I thought that was one of the things the forum was all about.Sharing good and bad experiences and trading information with the purpose of making the hobby better for all of us.Yea were all human sometimes it feels better to breath the bad air out.It will work out...he will get his Locomotive fixed right.

Nick

Last edited by rockstars1989
Ray Lombardo posted:

Lionel also does seem to have an issue with its manufacturing contractors that it needs to correct.  Too many horror stories here for there to be nothing here.  

Ya think?  You can add the SD-40s NW-2s, the shays and most signifigant the Moguls....which have yet to have a solution. ( The only safe one seems to be the Light Mikado)

With hundreds of boxes of defective Lionel items in the warranty dept, I bet its difficult to keep track of whose is whose and whats wrong with which one. Although each item seems to has its regularly scheduled defect.

Dave seeems to be trying his best too.  I'm guessing he doesn't get to pick the subcontractor, and with the bean counters going with the lowest bidder this is what we get.

Something  I found especially telling about "Lionels biggest competitor". When they did a tour of the manufacturing facility that was posted by Trainworld, ITS THE SAME PEOPLE DOING THE MANUFACTURING THAT HAVE DONE IT FOR MANY YEARS.

Maybe this is why "Lionels biggest competitor" seems to have far fewer posts about out of the box failures??

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER

I think Lionel in general, and Dave in particular, will be glad when the F40PH saga is over.   That was not one of Lionel's most shining moments. 

As for the hatch, I can tell you why they worked on it, though I suspect they could have been more careful.  It was sticking so bad that you couldn't get it off because of the paint thickness.  I had fixed mine before I sent it in for the other fixes, and it wasn't further damaged.

I'm still a little suspicious of the F40PH as mine occasionally does something odd out of the blue, but I did verify the wiring is routed away from the flywheel and I fixed the number board lighting on both this one and the cabbage unit so they matched in intensity.

I'm glad this topic was posted because I think it validates my decision which I made several years ago not to buy anything new.  I suffered through too many out of box failures and failed repair jobs from both of the top two manufacturers which was beginning to have a negative impact on my love for this hobby.   I've kept it simple since I made that decision and it has saved me not only money but aggravation as well.  I am now enjoying the hobby more than ever.

Last edited by OKHIKER

BOILERMAKER1,

So sorry to read about your problem with your engine. Definitely, your engine should of never came back from Lionel the way it did. If Lionel couldn't repair your engine correctly, they should of called you, letting you know your engine cannot be repaired. Then, they should of offered to either try to find you another one or send you a different locomotive at the same value of yours. The other thing they should of done, would of been to contact your dealer and work out a deal with your dealer, whereby your dealer would refund you, your purchase price. 

Last edited by jim sutter

Its not just Lionel.... thats why I dont send stuff back for repairs if I really want to keep the item. This is been going on for a long time, send it back for a refund or fix it yourself.... those are your 2 best options. None of the manufacturers WILL fix your stuff to your standards. I fix my stuff myself, but lately I cancelled all orders for new items. Tired of fixing stuff out of the box. NW2... another one just cancelled.

Last edited by Laidoffsick

Thanks for sharing your story here. I too have a real concern only mine was it getting it there safely. I have a ra number from lionel to fix my brand new pnp culvert unloader. It works well except the ir beam function is messed up. Since this is new I would like it working as it should. I am afraid that even if boxed correctly ups or others my damage it as they just see a large box they toss around on their truck. Never thought about lionel messing it up. For what its worth I called back lionel to ask to talk to the tech who just does accessories and was told he is not allowed to take phone calls. I told the lady on the phone that if I could verify something I could save him the time and fix it myself as the ir part is cheap enough. She was really nice and freindly to deal with although she said it was up to me I could keep it as is or send it back. Sure wish I could have spoken with the tech as he probably could have told me in seconds what to replace since he repairs these and has probably scene my issue dozens of times. If it is just a cheap sensor I would get one. That is much better than risk any further damage by shipping it. We do have the option of emailing them and yes it does work. One time dean replied to my question and I ordered the part and fix it myself. In this case though I wanted to talk to a real person.  Every time I think it would be cool to work there I think about what they must go through every day. I am sure they dont get paid very much either and thats a shame. I 100% agree that people like us wanting quick tunaround times probably contribute to issues like the original poster had. I for one could not care how long it takes as long as it is done right and have no issues with the repair job done when getting it back. 

romiller49 posted:

One thing for sure. If the Lionel high end market does not meet the profitable expectations then it will most likely disappear. They would have to survive on their brand name only and a lot of us would move on to another manufacturer. I hope they can get all these problems fixed. 

"High end" means quality reliable product.  IMO, a good portion of goods coming from Communist China is unreliable crap and their customer service often leaves much to be desired. There is no consistency.  We didn't have these problems years ago when product was made domestically and notice that the price of the imported product is just as high as it ever was.

In some sense, it seems to me that recent technology advancements with these trains have too often outstripped reliability. Older items were much simpler with a lot less to go wrong and easily repaired when something did break. The top-end trains are much more delicate, have many more easily broken exterior pieces and that is a problem in itself. I have snapped off railings and such just getting new engines out of the box for the first time.

For what it’s worth, I buy almost exclusively LionChief Plus motive power nowadays and have had no problems so far with any of it. 

I think the high end market is a small portion of the Lionel market. Lionel is a household name and I’m sure the entry level starter sets are the backbone of the biz. I’m wondering how bad the QC really is since you never hear from the happy customers and the unhappy ones are continually unhappy. I’d be disappointed to say the least if I just spent $550 on a new loco that didn’t work then sent it back only to have it come all beat up. It’s insult to injury to be told you didn’t pack it well enough. I’m sure nobody here would pack something poorly

IMO as stated to lionel customer service not just here. I told the person on the phone that all the high end stuff especially those items with complicated mechanisms should be 100% tested at the factory before being boxed up and shipped out. This way at least they know it was working 100% before it got damaged in shipping. Another thing is the amount of product they try to put out in a given catolog. If there was less product and more attention on that product being made to spec and using quality parts. Not cheap ones to save a penny or two in production. Not to mention getting it right on the factory floor and on the assembly line. Maybe lionel could get a better handle on thier quality control over there. Lets not forget the people putting this stuff together are just average workers hired to do factory assembly work. Just like any factory worker if they come in and are having a crappy day,tired,hungover,or feel they are being paid to low for what they are doing. It is very possible they will get a who cares attitude and just slap the stuff together. I look at it this way. A legacy engine made on monday or friday is no different than a ford car or truck made on monday or friday. Look at rapido trains. The owner jason once said on line they wont accept half ***. He stated he wants to be known for quality. When you by rapido its like you are getting a fine swiss watch he said. He said he does not want anything with the rapido name on it to be junk. He even retooled or redesigned or in one case remade products based on this philosophy and yes he said he lost money,but to him quality was more important. Lets hope lionel gets this figured out so as not to damage their name any further. I mostly by second hand so I avoid all the out of the box problems. I only by like new items when possible also. Tested and made sure they operate as if they were new. If the issue is minor and can be fixed I may get that item and repair it,but mostly I dont by fixer uppers. I have had a dud or two,but that % is on the low end.  I would like to buy some of the new lionel stuff,but it is priced to high for me. I would like a nw2 switcher,but will wait till lionel gets all the bugs worked out. Maybe the second run. 

EMD posted:

BOILERMAKER,

Please keep us updated on Lionel's actions on getting your issues resolved

Definitely.

And for all the “shipping damage” posts, it was in its plastic wrap, foam cradle, orange box, shipping carton, a layer of paper and air packs and another carton. This is NOT shipping damage. 

What’s missing paint doesn’t even touch the foam cradle.  It seriously looks like the hatch was pried out of the shell. 

Like I said above, once they’re open whether it’s tomorrow or Tuesday, I’ll be touching base with them. 

For what it’s worth, Mike R replaced a 2-6-6-2 mallet for me because it came back looking like it was rolled around on something without cushioning, so the Mike posts are misplaced... he just knew how to take care of it when they messed up. Hopefully whoever is running the shop now has that same skill. 

Yes, it disheartening when things are repaired poorly. I think the best luck I have had is contacting someone at Lionel and getting the new part, then installing it myself. 

I have 3 new locomotives with bad smoke units.. and it says to call for replacements. Guess I will be calling for new smoke units... 

Keep the faith. Lionel will make it right. You just have to be patient. 

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER

He said he does not want anything with the rapido name on it to be junk.

Even looking beyond the world of toy / model trains, there are far too many companies that would rather maximize the return on their brand name than maintain its reputation. It's refreshing to read about a company that still cares, even if it's for a product I don't use myself.

C W Burfle posted:

He said he does not want anything with the rapido name on it to be junk.

Even looking beyond the world of toy / model trains, there are far too many companies that would rather maximize the return on their brand name than maintain its reputation. It's refreshing to read about a company that still cares, even if it's for a product I don't use myself.

Here's Jason Shron of Rapido in his latest video explaining some of the problems he faces manufacturing in China:

Rusty

Always a big downer when something arrives damaged or non-operational, or later requires service.  With most goods shipped half way around the globe and then bounced around during delivery by the local carrier, I'm actually amazed I've had so few problems with trains and similar consumer goods. Probably a less than 1% failure rate and I buy almost everything from Amazon or similar on-line vendors.

That said, a 5-10% failure rate is pretty much par for the course in consumer electronics. Check out Consumer Reports for various experiences.  Some of the comments here reflect a different reality from my own of what a lemon is, and what is just the luck of the draw.  And inferring widespread quality problems based upon internet posts (and only 5-10 at that) is probably a disservice to others and misleading, in my view.

Just for an example.  I randomly did a Google search on "Amazon and Sony" (a company with a pretty good quality reputation).  This came up:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-Po...15966734&sr=8-12

31% gave this projector at the top of the list that came up  a one or two star rating out of five.  I'm sure you could do the same with Samsung, LG, Hoover, and other reputable manufacturers.

That said, I always buy from my local shop or Charles Ro (or similar reputable on-line dealer).  They always will replace or repair anything that doesn't work.  Very reassuring. For that reason, I've never actually had to resort to using Lionel's warranty repair in 25 years with hundreds of purchases for that reason.  Not saying my experience is 100% typical, but it provides an approach that has worked for me.  I don't have any experience, and neither does anyone I know with widespread quality problems with Lionel, MTH, Atlas, etc. so I'm skeptical of the comments to this effect on this forum.  No valid sample for one big thing. So those of you who are worried by these comments, consider the questionable credibility of the analysis.  Buy from a dealer who stands behind the product, whether local or on-line.

Train Nut posted:

What's telling is "Lionel" is actively posting in another thread on this forum less than an hour  ago, but wont touch this one....

I've asked this thread remain open so I can monitor the comments and then talk to the appropriate people when the office is open again on Tuesday.

"What's telling is "Lionel" is actively posting in another thread on this forum less than an hour  ago, but wont touch this one...."

I don't think so.  Why respond on-line to one consumer's problems, which need to be addressed by the company for that individual? Responding to comments that reflect emotion and opinion, not data or rational analysis, in my view, cannot serve the company. If they say they don't have quality problems, no one will believe it, because, of course, they occasionally do.  Any attempt to rebut the angry villagers with the pitchforks and torches will be met by additional enraged responses from said villagers. Best to focus on the task at hand and ignore the irate comments. Fix the original poster's problem and move on.

Last edited by Landsteiner
Dave Olson posted:
Train Nut posted:

What's telling is "Lionel" is actively posting in another thread on this forum less than an hour  ago, but wont touch this one....

I've asked this thread remain open so I can monitor the comments and then talk to the appropriate people when the office is open again on Tuesday.

Folks...Dave in fact did ask us to not close this thread.  In the past we have had members and advertisers request to have threads edited and/or closed so this is a first.  We have already gotten an entire afternoon of alerts to this thread so I ask that unless personal names and/or attacks occur, please limit your alerts.

I totally agree with all of this 

Out of the 6 Lionel engines I bought this year, 5 of them had to get a repair. I had one incident where the technician did not place any of the packing foam in the appropriate places on the engine, I feel as though that was a serious risk to the engineand could have resumed in damage to the engine. I hope Lionel listens to our comments and fixes their quality control issues. Maybe Lionel can hire someone to go monitor the QC in China?

My personal feelings that have made me lose faith in Lionel is it they wont address the "overall" issue on this forum.  Not an individual issue by saying- "we are looking into it" or "send it in we'll fix it". But addressing the big picture.  And there is an issue.  You can sugar coat it any way you want. But there is a quality issue.  Chosing to be members of this forum community i would expect a post explaining what is going on and ensure us that the truely do appreciate us as customers/loyal customers and what they may be doing to improve things in the future.  Instead i get the impression that they choose just to ignore the problem , and continue status quo while looking to move on to new products..  It would go a long way with me anyway....

Last edited by Train Nut

I am glad Lionel is monitoring this thread and the ever growing raging mob mentality this thread is becoming. No one ever in a long lasting company ever designs thing to hurt their customers and their reputation....period. Do things go south? Yes and many manufacturers have dealt with those errors and moved on. Think about any automotive company and you can certainly read about such examples of manufacturing mistakes. When we buy something that is not right then I would strongly suggest that nicely speaking to someone direct will get a much faster response versus open public forum complaining. I have read many threads and written a few where things were made right and by stating a big thank you to the manufacturer were either completely or almost completely ignored.

Sad.

Frankly I would not want to be a manufacturer in this hobby since it sure seems like the customer base could never, ever, at any moment in time be even halfway close to happy. For those manufacturers you have my sincerest appreciation.

For those who insist on public complaining before contacting the manufacturer and their supervisors then maybe post a warning in the thread title so maybe the person who you really need to contact will see it.

Kudo's to Lionel and asking to keep this thread open since now it has become something much more than a individual product issue.

For anyone wanting to complain about me further then my email is in my contact info so lets stop wasting bandwidth.

Thank you,

Jeff Meyer

OGR PUBLISHER posted:
Dave Olson posted:
Train Nut posted:

What's telling is "Lionel" is actively posting in another thread on this forum less than an hour  ago, but wont touch this one....

I've asked this thread remain open so I can monitor the comments and then talk to the appropriate people when the office is open again on Tuesday.

Folks...Dave in fact did ask us to not close this thread.  In the past we have had members and advertisers request to have threads edited and/or closed so this is a first.  We have already gotten an entire afternoon of alerts to this thread so I ask that unless personal names and/or attacks occur, please limit your alerts.

Gentlemen, this says a lot about Lionel in my opinion.  No one is perfect.  Mistakes do happen, even when you have been doing a job for years.  The first step is admitting there are issues that need to be resolved.  It's how you respond to the issue that separates a company from the competition.  Looks to me like Lionel is going to grab the bull by the horns.  

This has been going on for sometime as many have said. I sent a "Maiden Rescue" back to Lionel when it was new and would not work. They sent me back a unit that worked, but two of the decals on the building were upside down - think that was someones return? (No one noticed this, or cared). Representative of my experience with Lionel

Well, I just recently got a LionChief GP-9 and I absolutely love it. It ran first time out of the box with no problems and it is still running now with no problems. In fact, I ran it today for a full hour. I think they should at least run a locomotive before shipping it out. They used to do that. I remember years ago, someone, I think it was CBS, did a documentary on Lionel. Back then, they were still in Michigan. Part of the video showed a lady seated at a table just running one engine after another. Maybe someone, like a reporter for OGR, could address this situation directly with Lionel and just see for sure what is actually going on. 

Last edited by tncentrr
Captaincog posted:

I am glad Lionel is monitoring this thread and the ever growing raging mob mentality this thread is becoming. No one ever in a long lasting company ever designs thing to hurt their customers and their reputation....period. Do things go south? Yes and many manufacturers have dealt with those errors and moved on. Think about any automotive company and you can certainly read about such examples of manufacturing mistakes. When we buy something that is not right then I would strongly suggest that nicely speaking to someone direct will get a much faster response versus open public forum complaining. I have read many threads and written a few where things were made right and by stating a big thank you to the manufacturer were either completely or almost completely ignored.

Sad.

Frankly I would not want to be a manufacturer in this hobby since it sure seems like the customer base could never, ever, at any moment in time be even halfway close to happy. For those manufacturers you have my sincerest appreciation.

For those who insist on public complaining before contacting the manufacturer and their supervisors then maybe post a warning in the thread title so maybe the person who you really need to contact will see it.

Kudo's to Lionel and asking to keep this thread open since now it has become something much more than a individual product issue.

For anyone wanting to complain about me further then my email is in my contact info so lets stop wasting bandwidth.

Thank you,

Jeff Meyer

takata air bags come to mind!!!!

 

these kill people, wonder if those involved have stopped driving their cars1

Last edited by bigdodgetrain
Matt Makens posted:

I think the high end market is a small portion of the Lionel market. Lionel is a household name and I’m sure the entry level starter sets are the backbone of the biz. I’m wondering how bad the QC really is since you never hear from the happy customers and the unhappy ones are continually unhappy. ....................

The starter sets are not immune either. 

I recently (October York special) bought a Christmas starter set (the one from 2016, with the Docksider with Lionchief control, a boxcar, gondola and work caboose).

While I dealt with it with my dealer, the 1st one had issues with the couplers on the engine and both the gondola and the work caboose. (Pretty sure the boxcar was OK in the first set - so one of 4 pieces without a serious operational flaw - not great odds)

It took us 3 sets  for me to get a full set of engine/cars with no issues.  The original engine couldn't keep coupled around curves, it dropped any cars as soon as it entered the curve .  And this was not on the O36 curves that came with it either, I have an O72 tubular or O84 FasTrack loop I was using to try it out.  The other cars would as mentioned uncouple as well.  The other 2 engines had some cosmetic issues with graphics, but I was able to swap out a functional rear coupler from one of them.  It took the 2 other sets to find a good gondola and work caboose.

I need to confess I did not even try the power pack or track, as I used my normal transformer and carpet central loop.   I am giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming the power pack works and track is OK.

This was for a seasoned hobbyist (me).  I can't imagine how a new person buying a starter set for a train for around the tree would have dealt with such a flawed initial purchase.  Most likely would have just returned it and forgotten about a train after that.

I will say my recent purchase of the Polar Express (most recent, I think - the Bluetooth one) when an unnamed large department store had them on a good sale in December was very good out of the box.  Maybe some very minor cosmetic flaws (minor ones I let pass for the good price I got), but the set works and can pull it's consist (along with 2 add on cars) without the couplers opening.

I know, slightly off topic of what happens to repairs sent to Lionel (since this was dealt with locally), but the starter set reference made me think this initial quality issue might be a useful story.

-Dave

Last edited by Dave45681

I'm very glad that this post didn't get closed. All of the manufactures can learn from it. All of them need to take a very close look at their repair departments. They must understand, their tech's must start doing a better job at repairing these trains. Their tech's must understand, that in no way, can a train be returned to a customer that not working properly. If the tech's need additional training, then the necessary steps need to be taken. If additional help is needed, than more people need to be hired. Also, somewhere in the building, hang up a few signs that read if its not right, I will make it right.

Interesting thread and several telling points here. Just to select a few: 1) it is more common to hear complaints than compliments, we all know that is true so we need to take this with a grain of salt. 2) I am sure we are all impressed that Lionel did not ask for this to be shut down- says a lot about the current organization. 

My bottom line, I am one of the happy Lionel customers.  Their service and customer response has been excellent in my experience over a broad range of products:  from a small issue on a dinosaur train (cheap item and they fixed it!)  to helping with suggestions on what board to replace on a legacy loco (one of those fleabay stories), and things in the middle.  I know some will suggest that these problems should not happen- ever.  But realistically, we have a hobby involving complicated electro mechanical toys that can be bought for prices that fit our budgets and allow us to have a fun hobby.

Here is a thought, we need to convene a group of forumites and build 100 locos- wonder what our performance rate would be?

 

Ray Lombardo posted:

Troubling but I would want to hear Lionel’s explanation before getting out the wood and the nails.  Some of the damage complained of here is so blatant (remember that fellow with the MTH turbo train with parts floating around in the box - the accusation was that MTH broke it and sent it back that way) that Lionel staff would have to be idiots to send t back that way because it is going to get caught, the customer will be seriously ****ed, and in the era of social media everyone will hear about it.  Not smart.  Because I generally don’t assume idiocy from other seemingly rational adults, I would like to hear all the facts.

I cannot see the damage that well other than to see it is a scratch but I would, in all these cases that are very blatant, suspect shipping damage.

Lionel also does seem to have an issue with its manufacturing contractors that it needs to correct.  Too many horror stories here for there to be nothing here.  I wish them well in getting it right as they are an important part of the hobby. 

Had reason to send my Turbo Train back to MTH.  Even tho it was "mint/unused" - out of warranty - they made the updates & repairs at no cost to me.   Yea, I paid fright back to them, but they paid fright back to me.  Any wonder why so many purple boxes at my house? 

"For those who insist on public complaining before contacting the manufacturer and their supervisors then maybe post a warning in the thread title so maybe the person who you really need to contact will see it.

Kudos to Lionel and asking to keep this thread open since now it has become something much more than a individual product issue."

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

Surfline posted:

"Had reason to send my Turbo Train back to MTH.  Even tho it was "mint/unused" - out of warranty - they made the updates & repairs at no cost to me.   Yea, I paid fright back to them, but they paid fright back to me.  Any wonder why so many purple boxes at my house?"

Wow, that is such good news. You might want to let Scott, (VistaDomeScott) how you managed such good fortunes. 

Turbotrain Repairs

Charlie

 

The whole model train hobby repair thing is frustrating to me.

I am happy with Lionel's products, although I will say this: I purchased a Hogwart's set and it worked for exactly ten minutes. Luckily, I had purchased on sale from Amazon, and so, as a Prime member--back it went, no hassle, no charge.

This was not the case with a set I bought at my local Hobby Shop. The Lionchief Broadway Limited loco was bad, and it had to be sent back to Lionel in the huge box, for safety of shipment. I paid.

I must say that I find it a bit off-putting that I could buy a product, not have it work, and be expected to add to the cost of having a working product by spending my own money to ship it back so they can make it right. 

I understand that those are the rules, and so I play by them. But it doesn't make me happy, and it does not instill brand loyalty at all. Frankly, I buy more MTH now because I have found that the quality of the product is more consistent, even though I know MTH requires me to pay for shipping on a repair as well.

So it goes. I am limited where I can buy O gauge trains, and so that's the way it goes. But it is not customer friendly.

There is a group of people who are more exacting about their stuff than model rails.  HAM RADIO OPS.  Some of the ham radio items approach Lionel high end pricing.  And some of this stuff is run at high duty cycles with 100 watts or more of power to wire antennae which may be slightly out of tune.  Plus these radios have electronics in them.

I have used this stuff during a hurricane at an emergency operations center.  THIS STUFF HAS TO WORK! That is, low failure rate.

Maybe Lionel can ask some of the ham radio companies for advice.

Last edited by Dominic Mazoch

Seriously, moving from a smaller gauge to "O", I've had more problems with the electronics, speakers, boards, missing parts then ever on smaller gauge. One neighbor down the road has command HO large layout in his garage and has had nil problems. Its not only Lionel. But MTH engines I've had to replace 3 speakers, one on an Atlas. Boards on Lionel more then others. Engine on a MTH. As to neighbor who runs his trains for hours in a garage, has had zero problems with rolling stock or switches. Most problems I'll try to fix, but boards going out and speakers from a larger size, yet smaller cell phones, computers, games will last decades, even with abuse, but not trains. It does keep me from expanding, and buying any more new items.

Though I've only sent one item to Lionel for repair, it was my nearly brand new Legacy 990 set a couple years ago.  The remote was having issues, but they had me send the whole thing back to make sure.  I had only used it a couple times before whatever issue it had popped up.  When it was returned to me, they had replaced the remote.  This I understand, it's quicker to pull an already repaired one out of stock and send it back my way.  As long as it works properly, I could care less.  The issue I had, was that the one they sent me still had crumbs and greasy fingerprints from whatever snack the previous owner had consumed while using it.  I was a little POed, but I didn't want to deal with another issue so I just cleaned it up.

Volphin posted:
OGR PUBLISHER posted:
Dave Olson posted:
Train Nut posted:

What's telling is "Lionel" is actively posting in another thread on this forum less than an hour  ago, but wont touch this one....

I've asked this thread remain open so I can monitor the comments and then talk to the appropriate people when the office is open again on Tuesday.

Folks...Dave in fact did ask us to not close this thread.  In the past we have had members and advertisers request to have threads edited and/or closed so this is a first.  We have already gotten an entire afternoon of alerts to this thread so I ask that unless personal names and/or attacks occur, please limit your alerts.

Gentlemen, this says a lot about Lionel in my opinion.  No one is perfect.  Mistakes do happen, even when you have been doing a job for years.  The first step is admitting there are issues that need to be resolved.  It's how you respond to the issue that separates a company from the competition.  Looks to me like Lionel is going to grab the bull by the horns.  

These kind of threads also give Dave "ammunition" to present to the higher ups that there are problems that must be dealt with.

And sooner rather than later...

Rusty

December 6, 2107

Howard Hitchcock
President
Lionel LLC
6301 Performance Drive
Concord, NC 28027

Dear Sir,

I want to take this opportunity to inform you how an old Lionel collector/user
feels about the "new Lionel".

About a year ago, I took a 32930 ZW and 180 brick to my local hobby shop for
repairs, as it appeared to be DOA.

When I finally had time to see what progress had been made, I was informed
that the ZW was, in fact DOA.

I had note that your former Customer Service Manager was now doing repairs
on Lionel. I wrote to him, told him of the situation. He quickly replied
that he could not repair the ZW, as no parts were available. However,
if I contacted Lionel Customer Service, I could get a new ZW-L for $400.00
and my old ZW. He even so far as to contact "Dean" to let him know I
would be in contact.

I asked who "Dean" was and was told he was Dean Brasseur, Lionel Customer
Service Manager. I copied my entire email conversation with Reagan and
sent it Dean. He replied and said to call and the folks in Customer Service
would take care of it. I replied that I would call the first of the week.

I called the Lionel Customer Service number at about 10:30am on Monday
morning. I got an answering machine, I pushed the buttons for Customer
Service and was informed by the machine that all reps were busy and
then was disconnected YES- a dial tone!
I called back, got the same thing. My third call was to Dean's extension-
you guessed it-SAME THING! I then sent Dean an email detailing my calls.
He replied that he had checked and they had not missed any calls and that
someone would be in touch. He also informed me that they had been slammed!

Monday around 3-4pm, I got a call from Cathy at Lionel. I was unavailable.
I called Tuesday morning and the phone was answered by Cathy, who took my
info and told me an RA would be sent to me by that days end or by 9am the
following day. I asked her about "slammed" and she informed me that 2
people answered the calls for 3 divisions.

This took place the Monday/Tuesday of November 20 & 21, 2017.
I have yet to receive an RA or any other correspondence from Lionel.
I really don't want one now! I donated the ZW to a group in Chicago
and sold the two bricks. I thought you might want to know how
business is handled.

Sincerely,

 

 

Rusty Traque posted:
Volphin posted:
OGR PUBLISHER posted:
Dave Olson posted:
Train Nut posted:

What's telling is "Lionel" is actively posting in another thread on this forum less than an hour  ago, but wont touch this one....

I've asked this thread remain open so I can monitor the comments and then talk to the appropriate people when the office is open again on Tuesday.

Folks...Dave in fact did ask us to not close this thread.  In the past we have had members and advertisers request to have threads edited and/or closed so this is a first.  We have already gotten an entire afternoon of alerts to this thread so I ask that unless personal names and/or attacks occur, please limit your alerts.

Gentlemen, this says a lot about Lionel in my opinion.  No one is perfect.  Mistakes do happen, even when you have been doing a job for years.  The first step is admitting there are issues that need to be resolved.  It's how you respond to the issue that separates a company from the competition.  Looks to me like Lionel is going to grab the bull by the horns.  

These kind of threads also give Dave "ammunition" to present to the higher ups that there are problems that must be dealt with.

And sooner rather than later...

Rusty

Lionel doesn't need this post to know what is going on. They are well aware.  We are not their only customers.  Look at reviews on Amazon and other places.  As i stated earlier.  IMO they chooese to accept the situation and continue to increase prices to offset the losses...

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

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