Making preliminary plans for an urban layout using MTH subway cars. Considering an elevated and subway line. 

Can’t find realistic  looking  New York City style subway stations and elevated structures.

Found a company which made them for HO scale but not for O. If you know someone who sells them for O scale let me know. 

 has anyone scratch built realistic looking NYC subway el structures and stations (both underground and elevated stations ). 

Would like  to see your photos, drawings, materials you used, any helpful info,  dimensions of your structures,  tips, advice 

People not from NY never understand  why  El is the term used for an elevated subway,  which is an oxymoron. If  elevated how can it be a subway? 

true story- an out of towner got a job in NY. He had to run an errand,  was  given an address and told the place was under the El.  He called his boss to tell him he was lost and didn’t see an  El anywhere in sight.  He was calling from a phone booth under the El but was  looking for something  shaped like the letter L.  His boss, born and raised in NY,  just assumed his employee  knew El meant elevated subway line. 

 

Original Post

Couple shots of the El, Phila .style.Subway cars are modified Lo V. to depict Delaware River Port Authority.the El .I made out of basswood ,to fit above the existing track, each,a different dimension,WHEW. Bridge ,Walt Whitman with the Philly skyline.Just a matter of making everything fit to your own imagination.Realistic?? in my world fun!!100_2907100_2908100_2909100_2910100_2911

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RICH B posted:

Couple shots of the El, Phila .style.Subway cars are modified Lo V. to depict Delaware River Port Authority.the El .I made out of basswood ,to fit above the existing track, each,a different dimension,WHEW. Bridge ,Walt Whitman with the Philly skyline.Just a matter of making everything fit to your own imagination.Realistic?? in my world fun!!100_2907100_2908100_2909100_2910100_2911

Nice work Rich !   Not many model anything to do with Philly, that I know of.  I haven't ever seen any subway or streetcar equipment, with any of the Philly transportations companies names on them, manufactured by any of the model train producers in our scale either.  

Dan Padova

 

"In the course of my life I have had to eat my words, and I must confess it was a wholesome diet"..........Winston Churchill

                                                                                                                                        

 

There is only one realistic and correct model EL. Contact Joe Frank for EL information. 

http://www.wtv-zone.com/NYCity.../NYCityModelTransit/

 

5430825194_5fe9366cdb_b[1]

  See my site for Tunnels.

 

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Hello Yanksali

First, thanks to SIRT (Steve P) for the mention and nice plug -- Steve is a master modeler himself also

Building a realistic EL structure, trackwork and stations is pretty much like using the same general format as building a real prototype EL --- you need to consider space, location, how wide the structure (1, 2, 3 tracks or more) is to be,  and as such it is generally built as "custom" just as real EL's were built -- designed to fit in, around, among existing streets, terrain, alleys, real estate, whatever,  along the line, etc, 

The "model" EL structures - to be fully realistic looking - are built basically like the real ones -- and to general "bridge and trestle building" standards.   You first location-site and erect each of your EL columns, and then install cross spans on them to hang track girders from -- and upon the finished EL structure you then build your track deckwork.   It takes quite a bit of designing and fabrication (well, mild engineering) skills to scratch-build fabricate and erect piece by piece, section by section.  EL Stations must be custom designed like the real ones -- and most are "individualized" in construction to fit the needs, cross-street locations, and terrain..   Think of it as building an endless set of trestle bridges for your entire transit line... with "stations" along the trestle !  To be honest, it is not for the easiest to do for those with little to no modeling skills and having little, heh, patience and dedication.  It "is" a modeling  "art form" within itself - and requires much pre-research and dedication to attain the desired full realism and detail effects.

Of course, most early NYC ELs in Bronx, outer Brooklyn, Queens and northern part of Manhattan, were built over yet to be developed or paved (ie: mapped out on survey plans) street and avenues in basically rural barren woods or farmlands.  We are lucky in the model field as we can design both the streets, the EL and the City-scape scene around it to all fit together.

Steve Olsen created a webpage (link here ) http://www.nycmodeltransit.org/ModelEl.htm    on our NYC Model Transit Assn. website that Steve created and  maintains.  I also published a book and later, a CD, on building El structures and the layout modules for them to be erected on.  The CD is available but the booklet it was created exactly from, is some years now out of print --- originally published  in the late 1980's and upgraded in early 2000's.

051_51a_8349311614_oimg_0011_15620103662_otrack-shadows-from-the-el_5440941208_o

I have no more, heh,  space in my trainroom for building more (HO or O) EL structures for expansion  -- I started with a small 4x8 HO SCALE EL layout back in 1964-5 which grew huge by late 1970's -- and I went to O Scale in 1984.  Here is the link to my FLICKR ALBUMS pages of photos (in their respective Albums) of my O Scale and HO Scale EL layouts -- the HO Album shows a lot of re-construction as the layout grew and grew and older modules were re-worked to fit into the new layout plan. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/44268069@N00/albums

The ALBUMS feature photos by topic, subject and scene genre on the Layout (O and HO) -- so its quite a lot to see !

If you want to purchase custom manufactured EL structure components - per some of those mentioned in further above earlier postings on this Thread  - be prepared to spend quite a lot of money for those products depending upon how big, long, your EL system line will be built.  But then you don't have to fabricate each piece from scratch yourself either !

regards - Joe F

 

 

Joe F

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Hello Yanksali

As I do not see an email address for you listed in your OGR profile -  please Send an email to me at  "   irtelman@yahoo.com    "   and I will email reply back to you and give you the name and contact email address of the person who makes the CD -- he has the master.  He is a friend and long time member of my NYC Transit Modelers Group - and to respect his privacy I will not provide his email address here.

You can contact him for info on obtaining a CD and he will need your US mail mailing address. 

I will email him to alert him to look for your possible email inquiry !

Regards - Joe F

Joe F

Mr Frank

I am assuming you are the same Joseph Frank on NYC Model Transit Association website? I love the photos on the website. The subway scenes are so realistic. A work of art. 

I have  numerous  MTH O scale subway sets because I grew up in NYC. 

I am trying to come up with a subway track plan for 8 x 16 layout.  I want to have an elevated line and a subway one on a board below  the main board. I can’t find any subway track plans in a book or online. 

Was thinking of having the elevated line go point to point with auto reverse. 

By any chance do you have any subway track plans that can be used for a guide. 

Regarding NYC Model transit, where does the organization meet? Can anyone join? 

Yanksali

I have sent you TWO EMAILS to the email address that was on your email sent to me --- and BOTH times my reply email to you was bounced back as UN-DELIVERABLE by Mailer Daemon.   I sent a copy of my email to you to the friend who makes the CD's - to give him a heads up.  He also is aware that my emails to you both bounced.  Here is what the internet postal delivery agent wrote:

=============================================================================

MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com
To: irtelman@yahoo.com
 
Feb 18 at 3:01 PM
 
Sorry, we were unable to deliver your message to the following address.
 
Unable to deliver message after multiple retries, giving up.
===============================================================================
Therefore, because of same,  I am not further investing any more of my time or attention in this issue and matter.
 
Joe F. 

 

Joe F

BNSF-Matt posted:

Totally recommend Bridgeboss. He built a custom elevated station for me last year and it was really nice.

 

20181109_081221

Jim Robinson with Bridgeboss built my platform and also an Engine Shed.  Great work.  If you are travelling over 2 line curves, consider bridging both with the legs on the outside for the columns.  If your legs on the columns are between the 2 lines, you can go nuts trying to get around the curves.  I suggest a Bigboy or something articulated to help in the planning.

Also, pay attention to the overhang on 21" cars.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

When I was building my subway I got my old 15 cent tokens out, got on the E train at  169 street and started taking pictures of the stations!!!!! The internet has lots of subway pictures check out "The Abandoned City Hall Subway stop"

Here is how my scratch built subway station turned out. and my El, elevated trolley.IMG_1470IMG_6218IMG_7316

 

IMG_1039IMG_1040

genecm

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The total layout is 185 x 35   The subway section is 72 x 30     Some of the sections were puchased from Bridge Solutions     When he went out of business we purchased a laser cutter and drew up the plans to match   We make them ourselves    Somebody mentioned us above as Silk City Bridgeworks

 

My subway is intended to be only a small part of the layout. Hence only representative parts are visible. The first photo shows an entrance across the street from an urban passenger station.  Entrance is from Dept. 56 found on Ebay while the station is scratch built. The second and third photos show the entrance in greater detail. Yes, that's James, Red Molly, and a Vincent `52. The fourth photo shows the platform two levels below street level. The subway is a 3' x 7' dog bone with only 2' (the platforms) showing. It runs constantly with a 3 min. stop while out of sight and a 30 sec. stop at one platform using logic delay control from WeHonest in China. The posters in the station ("South Pacific", "Death of a Salesman", "Mr. Roberts", etc.) were found on Google Images and reduced.P1010608P1010605P1010606P1010607

jackson, CEO, Not-So-Great Eastern RR, aka The Never Done Line

          Division of the Southern Adirondack Railway Cartel

 

 

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Thats a LeMaxx subway kiosk staircase   A little known fact about those entrances had to do with the design of the roof  You really only see pictures of the rounded roof design because they were more ornate but there was another design with a squared off roof   Wherever you saw a rounded roof there was a squared roof close by     Some say the round was the entrance and the square was the exit  Some say the round was the downtown and the square was the uptown  Never could find the correct answer

subwaykioskmcny1905

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According to info from The Library of Congress, the round (more ornate) roof was the entrance, while the squared (flat triangles) off one was the exit. i confirmed this by looking at old photos and checking in which direction the people were walking (into or out of). You're correct about that being Lemax and not Dept. 56; it's been several years since i had acquired it. If i had to scratch build it, i would have chosen the simpler "squared off" design.

jackson, CEO, Not-So-Great Eastern RR, aka The Never Done Line

          Division of the Southern Adirondack Railway Cartel

 

 

El Trains Boarding 252KBDSCN2406DSCN2605

The El station is scratch built from cardboard, wood dowels, colored paper and coffee stirrers. There is a tool shed on one end of the platform. Two Miller Engineering signs will be put onto the roof of the station, one centered on each side.

El Paltform [1)

Bobby Ogage

"I hear that train a coming,

it's Long Island No. 39 rolling

around the bend"

 

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Hello Bobby (O Gauge)

Here is MORE information on each of those photos

BELOW PHOTO is looking west on E. 116th Street towards the 3rd Avenue and the Uptown E. 116th Street Local Station house of the 3rd Ave EL in 1914.  The Steel Viaduct for the four-track NY Central RR line along Park Avenue is seen 2 blocks to the west

116th Street, looking west from east of Third Avenue. Ride On the Open Air Elevated written on the side of the El station, as a trolley approaches, on October 8, 1925 92kb

 

BELOW PHOTO -- is NOT the E. 138th Street Station 

This  IS the  E. 183rd Street Downtown Local Station house on the 3rd Avenue EL, Bronx.  There was NO uptown station house. The Uptown platform  was accessed from the fare payment point via station agent booth in the downtown station house,  then via the under-tracks elevated passageway over 3rd Avenue to the northbound platform seen behind the left stairway.   The year is circa Sept. 1973 and the station is closed as the Entire Bronx 3rd Ave EL Remnant from E.149th Street to Gun Hill Road terminal, was closed permanently on April 29, 1973  and demolished in segments between  1974 thru 1976

138th St Station, 3rd Ave El [1)

 

BELOW PHOTO is looking west along W. 238th Street to Broadway and the above IRT Broadway-Van Cortlant Park EL and its uptown E.238th Street Local Station (IRT #1, 3 lines). The noted Riverdale Diner (I ate there many times over the past 50 years) is seen at left center behind the El pillars for the downtown station house

238th St Station, Bronx

BELOW PHOTO is a decades ago recreation re-make (from original plans) of one of the IRT KIOSKS located on an island sidewalk at Astor Place Subway Station, lower Manhattan.  This was wider and longer than the usual IRT Subway Station Kiosks from 1904 era.  (Regards - Joe F)

astor1

Joe F

Hello ALL  (those who may be interested!)

BELOW are the "Then and Now"   photos I compiled of two of the photos posted previously above.  For those who may be interested or are familiar with these 2 locations ---  enjoy !   Regards - Joe F

ABOVE PHOTO is looking west on E. 116th Street towards the 3rd Avenue and the Uptown E. 116th Street Local Station house of the 3rd Ave EL in 1914.  The Steel Viaduct for the four-track NY Central RR line along Park Avenue is seen 2 blocks to the west

BELOW PHOTO is looking west at the SAME LOCATION as above photo, on E.116th Street towards 3rd Avenue in 2011,  just about 100 years later, and  55 years after the Thursday May 12, 1955 closing of the entire Manhattan EL and its demolition and removal between Aug. 3, 1955 and Feb 1956. All of the original building from 1914 still remain !  As does the now Metro North RR steel viaduct along, over, Park Avenue in distance.

W on E. 116th St to 3rd Ave - 2011

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

138th St Station, 3rd Ave El [1)

ABOVE PHOTO - View east on E.183rd Street to the   E. 183rd Street Downtown Local Station house of the 3rd Avenue EL, Bronx.  There was NO uptown station house. The Uptown platform  was accessed from the fare payment point via station agent booth in the downtown station house,  then via the under-tracks elevated passageway over 3rd Avenue to the northbound platform seen behind the left stairway.   The year is circa Sept. 1973 and the station is closed as the Entire Bronx 3rd Ave EL Remnant from E.149th Street to Gun Hill Road terminal, was closed permanently on April 29, 1973  and demolished in segments between  1974 thru 1976

BELOW PHOTO -  View east at SAME LOCATION as above photo, along E. 183rd Street, towards 3rd Avenue, in 2017.  Just 43 years AFTER  the circa Sept. 1973 era PHOTO ABOVE, when  the EL station was closed permanently, as was the entire Bronx 3rd Ave EL Remnant from E.149th Street to Gun Hill Road terminal, on April 29, 1973  and demolished in segments between  1974 thru 1976.  All the same buildings still remain here !

W on E.183St to 3AV -2017 [2)

Joe F

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Joseph Frank posted:

Hello ALL  (those who may be interested!)

BELOW are the "Then and Now"   photos I compiled of two of the photos posted previously above.  For those who may be interested or are familiar with these 2 locations ---  enjoy !   Regards - Joe F

ABOVE PHOTO is looking west on E. 116th Street towards the 3rd Avenue and the Uptown E. 116th Street Local Station house of the 3rd Ave EL in 1914.  The Steel Viaduct for the four-track NY Central RR line along Park Avenue is seen 2 blocks to the west

BELOW PHOTO is looking west at the SAME LOCATION as above photo, on E.116th Street towards 3rd Avenue in 2011,  just about 100 years later, and  55 years after the Thursday May 12, 1955 closing of the entire Manhattan EL and its demolition and removal between Aug. 3, 1955 and Feb 1956. All of the original building from 1914 still remain !  As does the now Metro North RR steel viaduct along, over, Park Avenue in distance.

W on E. 116th St to 3rd Ave - 2011

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

138th St Station, 3rd Ave El [1)

ABOVE PHOTO - View east on E.183rd Street to the   E. 183rd Street Downtown Local Station house of the 3rd Avenue EL, Bronx.  There was NO uptown station house. The Uptown platform  was accessed from the fare payment point via station agent booth in the downtown station house,  then via the under-tracks elevated passageway over 3rd Avenue to the northbound platform seen behind the left stairway.   The year is circa Sept. 1973 and the station is closed as the Entire Bronx 3rd Ave EL Remnant from E.149th Street to Gun Hill Road terminal, was closed permanently on April 29, 1973  and demolished in segments between  1974 thru 1976

BELOW PHOTO -  View east at SAME LOCATION as above photo, along E. 183rd Street, towards 3rd Avenue, in 2017.  Just 43 years AFTER  the circa Sept. 1973 era PHOTO ABOVE, when  the EL station was closed permanently, as was the entire Bronx 3rd Ave EL Remnant from E.149th Street to Gun Hill Road terminal, on April 29, 1973  and demolished in segments between  1974 thru 1976.  All the same buildings still remain here !

W on E.183St to 3AV -2017 [2)

Joseph,

Thank you for the excellent comparison photos. While the historic pictures have a certain charm and appeal, the same areas today seem to look cleaner and more livable. Especially nice to see the older buildings preserved with mostly original architecture still in place. Always a great city...

MELGAR

bluelinec4 posted:

The total layout is 185 x 35   The subway section is 72 x 30     Some of the sections were puchased from Bridge Solutions     When he went out of business we purchased a laser cutter and drew up the plans to match   We make them ourselves    Somebody mentioned us above as Silk City Bridgeworks

 

HELLO I WOULD LIKE TO DO AN ELEVATED SUBWAY ON MY LAYOUT CAN YOU BUILD ONE FOR ME

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