Suggestions needed for restoring Lionel 1684 locomotive

If you get in a bind, let me know, I might have one. My stuff is packed away but I could dig it out for you. Make your daughter happy.

Best bet is to buy a junker that happens to have an intact motor. There are a few on the auction site.

The 1662, 1663, 1664 and 1668 share essentially the same motors. I think the postwar 243 and 244 motors would essentially drop in as well along with the MPC 8040 style motors. However, the 2 position e-units of the 244 and 8040 may not work well with the straight slot of the 1684 boiler casting.

It's been many years ago but I believe I used the motor out of a 1654 to replace the broken one in my 1684 engine.

I have a motor frame for a 1684M-1 motor. It is yours for postage. It looks like you have most of the parts to put a motor together. Field resistance came out to 1.9.

The Postwar 1654 is the identical motor that you have in the 1684 you are trying to fix.  There are others that are same design, and direct drop ins. Just look for some 2-4-2 configured motors, that have the Bakelite collector plate with the circled “L” in the center.  You have the later version 1684 motor.  The early version has metal side plates on the motor, and the one set of wheels has a hub to connect the linkage.  The early version has the fiber board collector plate, versus the later bakelite collector.  It’s an easy restoration.

Thank you very much! You are all very generous.

I will be going to the Amherst show and assume I’ll see a motor or a parts loco there.  Stew, I think that is the part I need but assume I would have to pull and press wheels? That is something I have not done. I will let you know if I need it. Thank you very much!

I have done wheel pulling and replacing with just a home made puller and a block of wood to replace. just need to take your time and it can be done.

I am going to be dropping off some repairs tomorrow at the LTS. What else do you need? Do you have the armature with the pinion gear on the end. It also looks like one of your wheels has damage. Maybe a more detailed picture of your parts? I think I can scrounge what you need and send you a rolling frame. How is the E unit? 

Just to add to the replacement motors, you can also use one from a 204 or a 229.  Same motor frame but nickel rim baldwin drivers.  The 204 is the O gauge version of the 1684 and the 229 is the O version of the 1664.  Also one last comment. If you get a motor feom a 1662 or 1663 switcher you may find that the wheels would need to be reversed.  The e units in front versus in back.  

Teledoc, I have never seen a 1684 with a fiber plate pick-up collector assembly. Do you have one to photograph? Thanks.

Worked this up this afternoon. Yours for postage. It also has an extra axle.

Chuck Sartor posted:

Teledoc, I have never seen a 1684 with a fiber plate pick-up collector assembly. Do you have one to photograph? Thanks.

You can see a few on the bay the 1684 came with 2 different motors.

Mine has the later type (no fiber plate) and i put the 204-229 type roller bracket and rollers on it runs excellent and did the same with our 1664 forgot which one but one of them i had to re slot the copper strip inside to accommodate the pickup bracket no big deal.

So nice to see all the help being offered !!

Chuck, I would guesstimate that 98% of the 1684's sold, had the die-cast motor that ENGINE97 has, which are the later issues.  That die-cast motor is the single reduction motor used in the 1684, 204, 229, and a few others, with different wheels installed.  The earliest production motor used in the 1684 (other 2%??), had the fiber board collector, with the stamped steel side frames.  This fiber board motor, was used in the 1688E Torpedo, circa 1938.  What most people don't know about the 1688E/1688, is that it went through three (3) different motors, during it's production.  The above motor was what I refer to as Type 2 motor, and is mounted in the 1688 with a single horizontal screw, through the body. The Type 1 motor is the one with the horizontal plates, and motor mounts through the running board.  The Type 3 motor, is the Die-Cast single reduction motor, as used in the late version 1684 locos. 

Here are photos of a fiber board 1684 (from eBay listing), and the Type 2 motor from the 1688E.  I also added the 1688E Type 1 and 3 motors.

Although the information on the 1688/1688E has nothing to do with this thread, I can answer any question anyone has on the 1688E, 1588 clockwork, and 1668E, which all share the same basic casting.

mine has the fiber board

I would say the fiber plate pick-up motor is not original to the engine, but an early 1664 engine?

stew1957 posted:

Worked this up this afternoon. Yours for postage. It also has an extra axle.

Hi Stew, 

That is perfect! Thank you so much. I think that will get me going. 

Ill send you an email. There are so many great, helpful members on this forum!

Bill

OK, there seems to be a number of 1684's shown on Ebay with a fiber board pick up, so I guess Lionel did make them with the early motor too.

Chuck Sartor posted:

I would say the fiber plate pick-up motor is not original to the engine, but an early 1664 engine?

mine was passed down to me by my Dad, and he's the original owner, and this is just how he got it.

Wrong Chuck, they are originals with the fiber board collectors.  If you look at the position of the mounting screws through the body, they are slightly off from each other.  I have done extensive research, primarily on the 1688 Torpedo, but the fiber collector motors are used in the Early 1684, and the mid production 1688E’s.

If you look at the photo of my Type 2 motor, in front of the E unit, there are two raised tabs, with holes in both, where the motor mounting screw traverses the body, on a 1688.  Dave (Steamer) could verify if his 1684, has the same motor.  I do not own any 1684’s, but I do have 15 variations of the 1688E/1688, plus variations of the 1588 clockwork, & 1668E/1668. 

Chuck, I originally couldn’t understand that The Torpedo 1688, with the Type 2 motor, was the only one to use that motor.  I began to search all the 2-4-2 Prewar locos, and Lo & Behold, the Early 1684 used the same motor.  My guess is the die cast motor were in 98-99% of the 1684, and the fiber version is most likely Lionel’s first issue.

no tabs on mine Doc

Dave, I said tabs, to describe where the mounting hole is located.  Probably wrong wording, but where the mounting hole is located on the motor, it is raised up a little, compared to other motors that look similar.  Look at the photo closely, to understand what I called tabs.

I have to correct the above, after looking at a listing on eBay with both versions being auctioned.  The stamped steel frame doesn’t have the holes in the side plates, like my Type 2 motor.  The mounting holes on the steel frame that you have (original), the screw locations aren’t parallel, but one hole is raised higher in the body, than the other.

These stamped steel motors were pretty versatile, with changing wheels, type of E unit, headlight brackets, and things like that, you could find the basic frame on 1681, 258, 1688, 1684 locos.  As you can probably guess, I’ve looked at 1000’s of photos of motors, for these locos from 1930-1940.  I know basically what I can swap, in a pinch, with a little modification.

Dave, Does your 1684 have two screws to mount the motor.  One down low near the cab, and the forward screw is up higher, above the valve guides.  Meaning the screws aren’t parallel to each other.

sure does Doc

Thanks Dave, it is hard to see from eBay photos.  The die cast motor has the screws parallel to each other.  WMCWOOD’s motor had Zinc rot, for sure.  I have had two of those style motors do the same thing, and just crumbled into pieces.

I've seen more than a few with the "early" motor as well. Usually, they are Gunmetal but not always.  It may also be that they found a way to use up left over motors or they put them in runs of locos to be used in uncatologed sets. Doesn't really matter as quite a few exist either way.

Dennis, I agree, that the early Tinplate of the 30’s is so much fun, and when you start to analyze certain loco’s, you find some really unique variations.  I decided to check the 1664 loco, and the same different motors appear on the 1664, with the early motor on some issues, but the majority having the die cast motor.  A quick way to tell, is if you can see the brush plate on a side view, the early ones use what I think is a 1681-6 brush plate(Lionel Jr. motors). The late motors use the OM-18 brush plate.