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I would really like to see Sunset 3rd Rail do a GP9 and GP7 with their great single motor drive and nice QSI sound much like the recent SD7/SD9.   

There were 3466 GP9s and 2617 GP7s built in the USA plus some in Canada for most major and mine RRs in the country.    No one has done a good model of these with road specific details and good single motor drive in many years.     The 3 rail mfgs have done some but these sit too high, have too wide trucks, 2-motor jerky drives, and with generic details, not road specific.     And only one MFG did them in 2 rail many years ago.    All the brass ones were done before the turn of the century and in small lots.    They are seldom seen at O scale train shows.

So do forum members think there is enough desire for GP9s and GP7s to support a run of these models?

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catnap posted:

Atlas does an excellent GP7/GP9 so I wouldn't be interested.

Exactly. Since the market is fairly well saturated with Atlas GP7/9 models, not to mention MTH and Lionel, in my opinion, Sunset/3rd Rail would be hard pressed to receive sufficient order/reservations for these.

I have a 2-rail B&O GP9 that I'm going to outfit with a LokSound XL decoder to replace the crummy QSI board that came with it.

 

I would ….. if they were produced in my railroad. A dynamic brake option available for each road name would be desirable for me, too …. even if like the way that Athearn does it in HO.

If 3rd Rail sees no profit in producing early ALCO road switchers, I don't see them doing GP7/9's. But, what do I know?

PRRJim, about the "2-motor jerky drives" …. I have a friend with a Atlas GP7. It runs smoothly at something less than 1 scale mph ….   .9 maybe. That's with the QSI board that Atlas was previously using. With Atlas now using the very cool ESU boards, performance certainly won't suffer. 

Last edited by CNJ Jim

Sadly the demand for road specific accurate power in 2 rail O scale with Sunsets great running, accuracy and electronics seems not to matter to many. 

Doesnt matter how crappy it was or how archaic it was, if it’s been done before it won’t sell if someone offers an improved product.

It seems 3 railers are more demanding than 2 railers when it comes to those things. 

JMHO...

The Atlas GP7. was eventually followed with a GP9.    Un-decorated model.  With the electronics at the time, EOB and the two can motor system, it ran quite well.  Note the solid bar hand rails.  There was also a straight hood piece that could be used to replace the  dynamic brake blister. 

A nice project several years ago.   

 

Last edited by Mike CT

Well, if the market is saturated with Atlas GP7/8, how come I seldom see more than one or two at a train if that?    And the ones I see are usually for western roads I have no interest in.   

I have a pair of Atlas Erie-builts that usually run pretty smoothly, I do admit.   

But the Atlas are still generic, no PRR antennas etc.    And if the trucks are like the dummy C425s I bought and converted WEaver Drives, they are too wide and sit too high.    a 1/16 of an inch or so off and major dimensions is no big deal, but some of the mfg GP9s are 1/4 inch or more too high on the trucks to clear their gearings.

My experience with two motor dries is limited to MTH PAs, AS616, GP30s, Weaver RS11, Weaver U25 (sold), and the above mentioned Erie-builts.    As mentioned the erie-builts are OK, and I got them used at a very good price or I would not have tried them.    All the others are OK but they just are not as smooth as single motor drives.    Also the speed is way too high, I have had to wire them all in series to get them to not behave like slot cars.    So my personal disappointing experience with two motor drives leads me to avoid them.   

Rule292 posted:

Sadly the demand for road specific accurate power in 2 rail O scale with Sunsets great running, accuracy and electronics seems not to matter to many. 

Doesnt matter how crappy it was or how archaic it was, if it’s been done before it won’t sell if someone offers an improved product.

It seems 3 railers are more demanding than 2 railers when it comes to those things. 

JMHO...

Great running, accuracy & electronics are important to most 2-railers, I'm sure. But unfortunately when the price of the "new improved product" runs into 4 figures, it's just quite simply beyond the budget of many of us. I for one would love to see a really decent 2-rail GP38-2, & a CF7, but I'd also want to be able to actually afford them as well, which rules Sunset out for me. If that somehow makes me less of a "discerning" modeller in other's eyes, well tough - it's only a hobby anyway.

Sunset 3rd Raill GGD diesels are not into the 4 digits.    When done in the typical size runs, they are between 650 and 700 - significantly under 4 digits.

For the example the current Atlas O F2/F3 is MSRP 519.95 and the currently announced Sunset F3 is 669.95 which is a difference of $150.     150 is significant, of course but to get features we want, it may be worth it to some.

No denying Sunset makes a superior model, even to Atlas, but the cost difference isn't worth it to me. With Sunset you'll have to pay that full price, with Atlas about decent dealer will give you a sizable discount. Im not trying to bash Scott's models, but when it came to the F3s, I needed two powered units so I couldn't justify paying almost $400 more for the pair. That's almost the price of another locomotive. My two cents. 

One would hope the fidelity and drivetrain of a Sunset rendition could potentially be as successful for them as the GP's were for EMD.  Include a GP9b in the roads that used them for added product variety.

I believe Sunset has had previous experience with the models.  I have a couple of their brass GP9 kits that are missing detail parts.

Bruce

 

Scott needs to do SW and NW switchers, GP 7/9s, GP20s, GP30s, GP40-2s, and GP15s. In my humble opinion he needs to do smaller engines for a while. I've been waiting for Atlas to bring the Erie Lack Geeps out for what 4 or 5 years now? I wish Scott would use ESU decoders like Atlas, but that can be fixed. He has made steady progress model after model to improve his diesels. Take my beloved GP30. Yes, it has been done by Lionel and MTH in 3 rail with floating pilots. The only version with fixed pilots was the Overland brass model and maybe one other older brass model. I had two of those and they weren't particularly good runners AND the interiors weren't as detailed as what Scott is doing in plastic. If Scott did a GP30 it would instantly become the best O scale GP30 ever made. I think he could do the same for the GP7/9. With the small amount that he needs to get a production run going why not dangle the idea and see how many people bite? 

 

It seems that the large, 6 axle passenger diesels are overdone but yet Sunset sells the devil out of them. I should also mention F units.  It was my understanding that Atlas was making the uncommon models like the SD40. I thought it strange that Atlas brought out the Calif Zephyr cars but no locos to pull them. Sunset brought out the E Units. I admit I like Atlas locos but I have a couple Weaver GP38s and an RS3 that run well and are 1/2 the price of other brands when you can find them. How about SD7-9 in TrainMan, SD24, RS2,3, so many locos and so little time for a 2 railer.

Dick

CentralFan1976 posted:

What we need are some GP18/20s!

 

The Central’s GP20s are some of, if not the the most beautifully proportioned of the EMD hood units.

I’m sure Scott would make darn near any locomotive we wanted. It just has to reserve and sell

Thus the conundrum of our hobby.  It doesn’t matter how popular GP7/9s or -38-2s were or SD40-2s were on the prototypes, at the end of the day the hobby is about big and fun and neat and what sells is Big Boys, Challengers, H8s, GG1s, Daylights and E/F units. 

No love for a Sunset SD40-2, which is arguably one of the most important locomotives of the past 40 years, yet a Kraus-Maffei is on the drawing board.

Not a bad thing, just human nature. 

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