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sunset announces the D&RGW L-105

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mark smark sOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Now I'm going out on a limb, but the notice says "upside down chevron" (on the front sandbox). That came in right after the Pearl Harbor attack, replacing a rising sun motif. The "flying Grande" came in slightly before then, 1940 or so, the product of an employee contest. So, will presume that a green boiler and a flying Grande will be available. If these are comparable to the L132 2-8-8-2's done By Sunset, you should have a fine locomotive. 

The DRGW L105 is among the 10 or so most powerful steam locomotives ever constructed.

mark smark sOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

The L105's were pretty versatile locomotives. They started out expediting manifest freights out of Grand Junction, CO, to allow the 'Grande to effectively compete with the Union Pacific for Salt Lake City trade. As diesels took over that work in the late '40's, they hauled coal trains in Utah, and western CO peach crop refrigerator trains in the early '50's. Additionally, they handled passenger work such as the Scenic Limited and the Exposition Flyer (as Santiago noted) and extra passenger movements like Civilian Conservation Corps specials and Boy Scout Jamboree trains. At least one was stationed at Minturn for helper work over Tennessee Pass, although it was seldom used as the L131's were preferred.

mark smark sOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Steam Guy - Have never seen a color picture of the rising sun motif as it disappeared right after Pearl Harbor, when color film was extremely rare.  But Key imported an L105 in HO scale with the rising sun in the early '80's, and it was yellow. Don't know if that was researched or done off the cuff.   In most likelihood, the flying 'Grande is incompatible with the rising sun motif.      http://www3.telus.net/jm858810/DRGW/DRGW_STUFF.html

Note that if you should get the rising sun (it is not listed presently at Sun 3rd Rail), the smoke consumers on the firebox would be incorrect. Believe it was 1947 when Salt Lake City passed an anti-smoke ordinance, which brought those about.

Last edited by mark s
HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
mark s posted:

Steam Guy - Have never seen a color picture of the rising sun motif as it disappeared right after Pearl Harbor, when color film was extremely rare.  But Key imported an L105 in HO scale with the rising sun in the early '80's, and it was yellow. Don't know if that was researched or done off the cuff.   In most likelihood, the flying 'Grande is incompatible with the rising sun motif.      http://www3.telus.net/jm858810/DRGW/DRGW_STUFF.html

I have seen posted elsewhere, that promptly after December 7, 1941, the D&RGW removed/painted out the offending "sun burst", then re-painted the "stripes" in an inverted pattern, which lasted to the end of steam. Thus, the front did NOT look like the Japanese "Rising Sun". 

Note that if you should get the rising sun (it is not listed presently at Sun 3rd Rail), the smoke consumers on the firebox would be incorrect. Believe it was 1947 when Salt Lake City passed an anti-smoke ordinance, which brought those about.

 

dkdkrddkdkrdOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Sidebar re 3700's history...

On October 19, 1952 engine 3703 suffered a tragic massive boiler explosion at Louviers, CO, killing the head end crew.  Apparently this occurred while the engine was pulling on grade...the boiler water level allowed to drop to a fatal level, precipitating an explosion that left the boiler upside down about a hundred yards from the point of explosion.  The whole incident is detailed in Robert LeMasenna's book  "Denver and Rio Grande Western, Superpower Railroad of the Rockies".

I asked Scott to NOT include this engine number for myself.  Maybe it should be stricken from the offerings altogether?? 

Just a thought.

KD

mark smark sOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

The 3703's explosion may have been caused by the engineer/fireman running "thin" water on the crown sheet. As the locomotive went up and down the Joint Line's periodic 2% grades, the water on the crown sheet may have rolled backwards, leaving exposed, uncovered steel. The immense pressure of the boiler steam promptly distorted, then ruptured the metal, causing the calamitous boiler explosion.  4 men died in that incident, one of whom was a railfan. The ICC investigation found no mechanical problems on 3703, hence, crew error.

As an eery aside, the boiler and attached 6-4 wheel set were carried several 100 feet away from the track. But, the front articulated 4-6 continued rolling down the track for about a mile.

SANTIAGOP23SANTIAGOP23OGR Forum Member
dkdkrd posted:

Maybe it should be stricken from the offerings altogether?? 

 

KD

While I see this as a nice gesture, I don't completely agree. Events like that are as much as part of history as any christening, and therefore subject to modeling. We should remember these events as they have also shaped  railroad industry and transportation history.

BS B SmithOGR Forum Member

An appropriate Rio Grande caboose would be very nice. As for engine 3703, I don't think it should be stricken from the record just because of the accident. It's part of the historical record at this point. I reside in Tucson, where the the University of Arizona proudly displays a model of the battleship Arizona, which was sunk by Japanese bombs at Pearl Harbor, with many lives lost. I don't think we have to get all weak-kneed and sensitive over the fact that one of the L-105s blew up and killed its crew. Would you decline to have a model of a 1954 Buick on your layout just because some people were killed in an accident in one of these cars back in 1955? How about just abandoning model railroading altogether because a lot of people actually have been killed in railroad accidents since about 1825?

dkdkrddkdkrdOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
B Smith posted:

As for engine 3703, I don't think it should be stricken from the record just because of the accident. It's part of the historical record at this point.  

I don't think we have to get all weak-kneed and sensitive over the fact that one of the L-105s blew up and killed its crew. 

Fair enough....it was just a thought.   

Re the analogies....there was only one battleship Arizona.  1954 Buicks....aside from their VIN's...to the general populace...or Buick-philes...had little-to-no individuality.  OTOH, steam engines of a particular class were far fewer in numbers, casually identified by their number, and acquired a 'persona' particularly among crew members but sometimes within the memory of folks living along the tracks and in the towns 'she' frequented.  Maybe she had a uniqueness of chuff or whistle.  Maybe she was so frequently seen and heard from that  'Yep, you could set your watch by ol' number 1269!', or 'When number 3827 went through town on its night run, it would lull us to sleep....with a re-assuring smile that all's well!'

So, since "DRGW 3703" is an immediate identifier of a particular steam engine which fosters instant recollection of its tragic demise among those of us who have more than a ho-hum passion for the railroad, the equipment, the history.....I'd sooner have a model running on my layout with a different number.  There are plenty of other numbers within this particular engine's class that would be less historically poignant...IMHO, of course.  

It was just a suggestion.   Apparently it wasn't very popular.   That's life.

And, no.....I'm not "all weak-kneed and sensitive" over the incident. ()

Have a blessed day.

Moving on....

KD

Erik C LindgrenErik C LindgrenOGR Forum Member
SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Mark, I knew about the Rocket TA school bus tragedy, but didn't know about this one. Can you elaborate? 

My grandfather was one of the vollunteers that tended to the remains of the music students while he was at work in his John Deere dealership in mason city. I have photos from that incident he and his colleague took. 

dkdkrddkdkrdOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Mark, I knew about the Rocket TA school bus tragedy, but didn't know about this one. Can you elaborate? 

Perhaps this is what you're seeking?....

3708 LINK

And, in case others were more interested re my earlier post, I found the ICC report thereof...

3703 LINK

Until Mark mentioned it, I had not been aware of the more deadly incident involving 3708.  Besides the tragedy involving death and injury of dozens of school children, it undoubtedly scarred the memories of 3708's crew for the rest of their lives. 

And I have no idea why among my DRGW books/materials it's less commented upon than the boiler explosion of 3703.

I'm almost sorry to have brought the subject up.......my apologies.

KD

Last edited by dkdkrd
Austin BillAustin BillOGR Forum Member

Hot Water, yes we have.  But, that was a while back, really before the L-131 was produced.  Who knows, now with the L-105 possibly adding to the demand.  Nothing ventured.  Nothing gained.  Seems to me.  

And at the price point for the L-131 and now an even higher MSRP for the L-105 perhaps an "over $400" price tag for an "accurate" (your words) might work.  Can't hurt to ask.

 So, Scott, how about considering one?  Maybe you could put out a feeler with a price and see what happens.  Noting ventured, nothing gained.

Maybe I've been looking in the wrong places and have surely missed some for sale.  But my experience over the past two years has been black steam era "accurate" cabooses are rare as hen's teeth and very pricey. I've seen them go for way over $400.

Austin BillAustin BillOGR Forum Member

Erik.  A belated thanks for the info.  Turns out I figured out that  the Division Point, OMI, and Joint Line(DVP/Berlyn) Grande Cabooses - done a long time ago and in small quantities are just about the only game in town in brass.  And I frequently check the sources you mentioned and others.  But, thanks all the same. I'll drop cabooses on this topic since it's really about the L-105.  But, just wish someone would do an accurate Grande steam era caboose in brass or plastic as long as it's well done and accurate.

Last edited by Austin Bill
HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
samparfitt posted:

Just picked this up on ebay.  Nice MTH 20-91015 NIB DM&IR caboose.

That is a 3-Rail Santa Fe caboose painted & lettered for DM&IR, thus it is NOT prototypically correct.

Will go nice with my M-4.  Haven't check but it seems like there should be some nice non brass D&RG cabeese available.

Since your M-4 Yellowstone is also 3-Rail, and if you are not all that interested in prototypical accuracy, I suppose any old caboose could work? 

 

S samparfittOGR Forum Member

My HO: accurate.

Custom painted and lighted interior and marker lights.

3 rail: close enough for 'now': In HO, I can, virtually, get anything that I want.  In O gauge, it's extremely limited.  I'd rather have something close running behind my engine than no caboose.  If something comes along later, I can buy that and sell the old one.

DM&IR caboose 06

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markermarkerOGR Forum Member

I'm considering one of these three versions:

3. Green Boiler, Chevron, Flying Rio Grande Lettering (Green 1941)
4. Black Boiler, Chevron, Early Lettering (Black Early)
5. Black Boiler, Chevron, Flying Rio Grande Lettering (Black Late)

I like the idea of #4, but would like to know the dates each of the versions would be seen. Can anyone give me a reference or some dates for each version? Thank you.

sdmannsdmannOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBERFORUM SPONSOR

After the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, the Rising Sun was changed to Chevrons on the L-105s in late 1941, early 1942. The boilers were still Green.

Shortly there after the boilers were painted Black when shopped, and the tender lettering was changed to Flying Rio Grande after WWII.

During the War these details changed from engine to engine, and I am not sure if anyone knows exactly when they were changed.

So it's up to the individual whether you want the mixed early and late configs or not.

Scott

P PRR 5841OGR Forum Member
EBN posted:

http://digital.denverlibrary.o.../order/nosort/ad/asc

 

Tons of great photos of the L-105 - all liveries - 

 

Denver Public Library (key words "Otto Perry" "4-6-6-4")

 

 

There are some great photos here, thanks for posting this.  Curiously, L-105 #3700 is shown in-service without the “box” on the front pilot.  While I’m not very knowledgeable about this engine, there appears to be two sand domes for their respective engines on the boiler so what is the box on the pilot, another supplemental sand box?  Why was it missing in the photo? Tia

Last edited by PRR 5841
B BobbyDOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Christopher Cinque posted:  

There are some great photos here, thanks for posting this.  Curiously, L-105 #3700 is shown in-service without the “box” on the front pilot.  While I’m not very knowledgeable about this engine, there appears to be two sand domes for their respective engines on the boiler so what is the box on the pilot, another supplemental sand box?  Why was it missing in the photo? Tia

Isn't that a water brake? Recall reading something about it long ago.

HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
BobbyD posted:
Christopher Cinque posted:  

There are some great photos here, thanks for posting this.  Curiously, L-105 #3700 is shown in-service without the “box” on the front pilot.  While I’m not very knowledgeable about this engine, there appears to be two sand domes for their respective engines on the boiler so what is the box on the pilot, another supplemental sand box?  Why was it missing in the photo? Tia

Isn't that a water brake? Recall reading something about it long ago.

No, that "box" is not the "Water Brake".

SANTIAGOP23SANTIAGOP23OGR Forum Member
colorado hirailer posted:

Oh, boy...the second of my favorite road's monumental power, and l am only modeling a shortline with a Grande connection and helper siding, so acquiring another to only sit on the siding makes no sense.  What about Exposition Flyer cars? Has anybody made those?  I have looked for the DM&lR caboose, also, but only the side door version, not seen lately. 

There are some cars available by default. But a select group of cars has not been done intentionally as a group. Here are some of mine:

DSC06657DSC05199DSC05208DSC04065DSC04083DSC04774DSC06646DSC06618DSC05492DSC05743

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mark smark sOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

That is an additional sand container on the pilot deck. The reason that some photos of L105's appear w/o the container is that the Grande added them perhaps a year after delivery of the locomotives. Some of the L131/132's also received the additional sand container on the pilot deck a number of years after going into service. The water brake apparatus would be seen on the cylinders.

S samparfittOGR Forum Member

Chris,

Correct.  That's a Key, factory painted black but I added the green boiler.  Also, painted the cab interior.

I believe the front box held sand.  Being an articulated engine, having the sand on the front engine prevented having to have some kind of moving pipes from the sand dome to the drivers.

 D&RGW L-105 4-6-6-4 FP 09D&RGW L-105 4-6-6-4 FP 10

Also, have the L-131.

PFM HO version:

This one was unpainted from the 'factory'.  

D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 09D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 12

3rd Rail version:

D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 04D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 05D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 06D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 08D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 09D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 11

My last D&RGW engine is the M-68 4-8-4, yet to be painted with a green boiler.

I'm GN but I've always liked the L-105 and L-131 and the M-68 will look good with a green boiler. 

D&RGW M-68 4-8-4 02D&RGW M-68 4-8-4 03D&RGW M-68 4-8-4 04

 

 

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  • D&RGW L-105 4-6-6-4 FP 09
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  • D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 12
  • D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 04
  • D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 05
  • D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 06
  • D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 08
  • D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 09
  • D&RGW L-131 2-8-8-2 11
  • D&RGW M-68 4-8-4 02
  • D&RGW M-68 4-8-4 03
  • D&RGW M-68 4-8-4 04
Last edited by samparfitt
B BobbyDOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Hot Water posted:
BobbyD posted:
Christopher Cinque posted:  

There are some great photos here, thanks for posting this.  Curiously, L-105 #3700 is shown in-service without the “box” on the front pilot.  While I’m not very knowledgeable about this engine, there appears to be two sand domes for their respective engines on the boiler so what is the box on the pilot, another supplemental sand box?  Why was it missing in the photo? Tia

Isn't that a water brake? Recall reading something about it long ago.

No, that "box" is not the "Water Brake".

Thanks for another smart aleck post. Please inform us what it is then.

E ecd15OGR Forum Member
BobbyD posted:
Hot Water posted:
BobbyD posted:
Christopher Cinque posted:  

There are some great photos here, thanks for posting this.  Curiously, L-105 #3700 is shown in-service without the “box” on the front pilot.  While I’m not very knowledgeable about this engine, there appears to be two sand domes for their respective engines on the boiler so what is the box on the pilot, another supplemental sand box?  Why was it missing in the photo? Tia

Isn't that a water brake? Recall reading something about it long ago.

No, that "box" is not the "Water Brake".

Thanks for another smart aleck post. Please inform us what it is then.

BobbyD, there was nothing "smart aleck" about Hot water's post.  He simply stated a fact and answered the question.  Your post on the other hand ..........

P PRR 5841OGR Forum Member
mark s posted:

That is an additional sand container on the pilot deck. The reason that some photos of L105's appear w/o the container is that the Grande added them perhaps a year after delivery of the locomotives. Some of the L131/132's also received the additional sand container on the pilot deck a number of years after going into service. The water brake apparatus would be seen on the cylinders.

Gentleman,

This was posted here yesterday, a very succinct and accurate piece of information.  Thanks Mark!  Btw, if it’s not too much trouble, how does a “Water brake” work?  D&RGW is the only Class 1 road I ever heard that used them.  

Chris

Last edited by PRR 5841
HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
Christopher Cinque posted:
mark s posted:

That is an additional sand container on the pilot deck. The reason that some photos of L105's appear w/o the container is that the Grande added them perhaps a year after delivery of the locomotives. Some of the L131/132's also received the additional sand container on the pilot deck a number of years after going into service. The water brake apparatus would be seen on the cylinders.

Gentleman,

This was posted this yesterday, a very succinct and accurate piece of information.  Thanks Mark!  Btw, if it’s not too much trouble, how does a “Water brake” work?  D&RGW is the only Class 1 road I ever heard that used them.  

Chris

In simple terms, the Engineer has a small valve within his reach, so that he can induce clean boiler water into the valves/cylinders, after the throttle has been closed down. With the reverse gear centered, and the cylinder cocks open, a small amount of boiler water is induced into the steam flow to the cylinders, then the reverse gear is slowly moved toward the reverse position, from centered. The effect of the boiler water flashing to steam within the cylinders, produces a substantial retarding affect on the train, and if more retarding affect is desired, the Engineer moves the reverse gear a little more towards full reverse, until the desired slow speed is maintained on the speed down grade.

The Santa Fe also experimented with the French designed water brake (can't find the exact spelling of the French name), but the complaint was two fold; 1) it tended to wash the lubrication out of the cylinders, and 2) successful operation was HIGHLY DEPENDENT on the skill of the Engineer. The D&RGW, being a much small railroad than the Santa Fe, did have highly skilled Engineers in its mountain divisions, and thus was much more able to properly train Engineers on the use of the water brake. That, plus the development of the Nathan Mechanical Lubricators continued to supply steam oil (valve oil) regardless of whether the throttle was open or not.  

Edit: Found the spelling of the Le Chatelier water brake, from about 1888

Last edited by Hot Water
laminglamingOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Hey Hot:

Do you have any knowledge as to how light engines descended grades before the advent of engine brakes and (likely) before the above "water brake"? I'm talking like Donner Pass in the late 1860s, that sort of time frame.

I "think" my understanding is the Engineer's would use the Johnson bar in the reverse position (if descending in the forward direction) and would feed a bit of steam into cylinders as needed. Sound right?

(A fellow friend that's also into early railroading and I have discussed this.)

Thanks.

Andre

HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
laming posted:

Hey Hot:

Do you have any knowledge as to how light engines descended grades before the advent of engine brakes and (likely) before the above "water brake"? I'm talking like Donner Pass in the late 1860s, that sort of time frame.

I "think" my understanding is the Engineer's would use the Johnson bar in the reverse position (if descending in the forward direction) and would feed a bit of steam into cylinders as needed. Sound right?

That is my understanding also. Prior to air brakes, they did have the "steam jam" which applied brake shoes to the wheels on locomotives only.

(A fellow friend that's also into early railroading and I have discussed this.)

Thanks.

Andre

 

laminglamingOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Thanks for lending credulity to what my friend and I think about light engines vs descending grades.

What I've understood regarding the the early years of steam jams and driver brakes: Using them when running light on a long descent was risky on account of heating up the thin (at the time) driver tires to the point they COULD expand to be loose enough on the wheel to become an issue!

Amazing how they railroaded "back then".

All fer now.

Andre

HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
laming posted:

Thanks for lending credulity to what my friend and I think about light engines vs descending grades.

What I've understood regarding the the early years of steam jams and driver brakes: Using them when running light on a long descent was risky on account of heating up the thin (at the time) driver tires to the point they COULD expand to be loose enough on the wheel to become an issue!

Correct, and the same applies today, i.e. DO NOT use the independent (engine brake) for very long. To this day, the C&TS narrow gauge (former D&RGW) Engineers use the reverse gear to defend their super steep (4%?) grades. 

Amazing how they railroaded "back then".

You got that right!

All fer now.

Andre

 

P PRR 5841OGR Forum Member
Hot Water posted:
Christopher Cinque posted:

Thanks for that detailed explanation, sounds like a miniaturized and controlled boiler explosion.  

Chris

No.

Hot Water-

Your comment “...boiler water flashing to steam within the cylinders...” sounds just like what happens in the boiler after a crown sheet failure.  Could you please explain why I am wrong?

Thanks,

Chris

HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
Christopher Cinque posted:
Hot Water posted:
Christopher Cinque posted:

Thanks for that detailed explanation, sounds like a miniaturized and controlled boiler explosion.  

Chris

No.

Hot Water-

Your comment “...boiler water flashing to steam within the cylinders...” sounds just like what happens in the boiler after a crown sheet failure.  Could you please explain why I am wrong?

Thanks,

Chris

What occurs within the cylinders is a controlled event, i.e. by the Engineer in how little boiler water is introduced into the cylinders. What occurs when a crown sheet ruptures is a totally uncontrolled & catastrophic event. Thus they are completely different.

V VintageClassicsOGR Forum Member

Question about the L-105s... According to Key Imports... ALL L-105s received Overfire Jets post-war in 1947...  

My Question is the following: Were some L-105s still sporting the green boiler when the overfire jets were added in 1947? 

Reason being is, I see a Post War model offered by Key Imports back in the day with the green Boiler... And If that is accurate, I would love to have a Green boiler verizon from Sunset, with Overfire jets, and Flying Rio Grande. 

If not, i think I may need to change my order to the black version with overfire jets and get it repainted... 

DSC02242

Check out the Overfire Jets on that Green Boiler! 

DSC02254

DSC02246

 

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sdmannsdmannOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBERFORUM SPONSOR

Folks,

Here's a little video I put together showing the L-105 design process. I hope you enjoy it, and then order one...

DESIGNING THE L-105 in 3D

The design is done and production will begin in December finishing early next year. We only make them to the reservations, so if you wait to see one in the flesh, you might be too late.

Reserve your L-105 at: http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#L105

P PRR 5841OGR Forum Member
VintageClassics posted:

Question about the L-105s... According to Key Imports... ALL L-105s received Overfire Jets post-war in 1947...  

My Question is the following: Were some L-105s still sporting the green boiler when the overfire jets were added in 1947? 

Reason being is, I see a Post War model offered by Key Imports back in the day with the green Boiler... And If that is accurate, I would love to have a Green boiler verizon from Sunset, with Overfire jets, and Flying Rio Grande. 

If not, i think I may need to change my order to the black version with overfire jets and get it repainted... 

DSC02242

Check out the Overfire Jets on that Green Boiler! 

DSC02254

DSC02246

 

My research suggests that all L-105’s were gradually transitioned to black during the war as they went in for major maintenance.  Did some escape?  It’s possible but not likely.  The chances that any were still green after over-fire jets were installed in ‘48 is even less likely but not impossible.  There’s a very good article on Utah Rails that you may want to read.  I’m sorry to say but your question (Mine too) will probably never be definitively answered as the necessary documentation just doesn’t seem to be out there.  Nice model BTW.

http://utahrails.net/drgw/drgw-green-boilers.php 

V VintageClassicsOGR Forum Member
PRR 5841 posted:
VintageClassics posted:

Question about the L-105s... According to Key Imports... ALL L-105s received Overfire Jets post-war in 1947...  

My Question is the following: Were some L-105s still sporting the green boiler when the overfire jets were added in 1947? 

Reason being is, I see a Post War model offered by Key Imports back in the day with the green Boiler... And If that is accurate, I would love to have a Green boiler verizon from Sunset, with Overfire jets, and Flying Rio Grande. 

If not, i think I may need to change my order to the black version with overfire jets and get it repainted... 

DSC02242

Check out the Overfire Jets on that Green Boiler! 

DSC02254

DSC02246

 

My research suggests that all L-105’s were gradually transitioned to black during the war as they went in for major maintenance.  Did some escape?  It’s possible but not likely.  The chances that any were still green after over-fire jets were installed in ‘48 is even less likely but not impossible.  There’s a very good article on Utah Rails that you may want to read.  I’m sorry to say but your question (Mine too) will probably never be definitively answered as the necessary documentation just doesn’t seem to be out there.  Nice model BTW.

http://utahrails.net/drgw/drgw-green-boilers.php 

Hello! Thanks for the kind words! I'm very familiar with that article. Keith Williams states an interesting fact, " While there are post-WWII photos of D&RGW locos with green boiler jackets I question whether it was applied after the war."

Being as 1948 is only a few years afterwards, its entirely possible to have green boilered engines. A key note is a brand new 1800 class 4-8-4 that STILL HAD its green boiler jacket as late as 1949, and here is my source from the article above that we both are using for our research:

D&RGW 18034-8-4June 1949Copeland, D&RGW Color Pictorial, Volume 1, page 41 (near Palmer Lake)

 

Also

Dennis O'Berry wrote in April 2001:

I knew an individual that rode trains keeping a journal of engine numbers and paint schemes - never took any photos.

He recorded a 1400 in Salt Lake City (1922) with a green boiler and red Roof and a C-48 (1148 - I think) green and red at Leadville in 1927. Never saw that combination on the narrow gauge himself. Latest I've seen was a 1949 movie Perry Jenkins shot at Alamosa (I think) of a 3600 with a green boiler.

If a 3600 class 2-8-8-2 still had a green boiler in 1949, then it's definitely within the realm of possibility that some 3700's were still green.

Can anyone truly prove they were not? But I totally agree, and it's too bad we won't know for certain, that we'll never truly know the answer to this research question.

I would like to point out that David Devida over at Key has been very reliable in accuracy of their models... I would believe that they may have had access, at that time, to sources and data that would indicate that some late L-105s still had green boilers in late 40s... Maybe #3703 still had a green boiler when she blew up in the 50s. Hopefully one day some color pictures come up to help, and possibly some old Employee that worked on the Rio Grande  can shed light on this matter.

Thanks for the compliment btw... and I AM VERY EXCITED that Scott is doing a 6th Version with Green boiler and overfire jets...

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#L105

hope he does #3703 in that scheme... David

 1802

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Last edited by VintageClassics
V VintageClassicsOGR Forum Member
PRR 5841 posted:

David,

The answers we’re all looking for are probably on someone’s vacation 8mm movies, slides or photos collecting dust on a shelf somewhere.  Does “Morning Sun” have anything to contribute here?  Btw, Sunset now has 7 versions.  

Hello PRR 5841,

You've hit the nail on the head! I believe that wholeheartedly... Somebody has the info, somewhere...

SO cool about the 7 versions!

SANTIAGOP23SANTIAGOP23OGR Forum Member

a few upgrades to my #3704...

A couple of artista figures replaced the robotic figures from the factory...

6B10B328-1B06-4836-B88A-D4776055369C

The units come with lighted gauges which is nice. A few tweaks with the QSI programmer helped get a more realistic brightness...

BABBBA41-727D-4570-BFEE-C72E7187EE80

444A5EA9-1F92-411A-9D2D-8E633B5DC000

I replaced the factory installed LEDs on both the headlight and rear light.... LEDs do not belong on a 3k model. Sorry, guys. I set up the brightness with the programmer below the bulb’s max brightness to maximize the bulb’s life. Finally, a new lens was added. The factory installed one was, well, not very clean.

A scratch built parabolic reflector helps the 1.5v bulb glow appropriately...

81F3724B-48A8-4C9D-8B4F-6C2D1A266FEB

the number boards LEDs were replaced with surface mount LEDs. The new LEDs were tinted with coats of clear paint until the desired hue was achieved. Note how they match the headlight. I find that incandescent bulbs give a pinkish hue rather than a gold hue.

E8AC8CE4-CE39-4685-AD9A-2DAF25E72C57

finally, I was able to extend the frame above the trailing trucks. That gap was killing me.... the cab armrests were painted bright green as well.

39F13849-63BF-4598-A28E-4730ED3FC660DD6CB19E-4214-46D2-8535-7C46E57AF814

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W WinstonBOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Santiago,

Once again, your observations and improvements are Spot-on. The LEDs looks like my SD70Ace. I’m always amazed how forum members, as yourself, are able to up the game after receiving an engine. I can only muse at the knowledge and equipments one must have to make changes like these at home. But Man! Do I LOVE this engine. Scott! 👏👏👏

Last edited by WinstonB
DJ David JohnstonOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

In the  Otto Perry photo above of 3707 it looks like the pilot truck wheels have bearings in the wheel hubs. This was a development by ASF around 1940.  I have only seen a couple of then, I think they were not commonly used. A large WP tender one time that was in MW service had to be rerailed. I opened the journal box covers to check the bearings when it was first back on the track. They were 7 X 14 journals, which are huge.  When the tender first started to move I could not understand what I was seeing.  The tender was moving, but the axle was not turning under the brass. It took me a while to figure out that there was a large roller bearing in the wheel hub and all the rotation was occurring there.   It sounded like a good idea, but I doubt the cost justified the benefit.  

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