Sunset GP-9 #518 with four small radiator fans. Pictures taken outside in natural light and the passenger car is a Golden Gate Powhatan Arrow car factory painted.
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Very nice. Except,,,,,,,,,the N&W "Redbird" passenger GP9 units where the later phase units with the 48" diameter fans.
It's always something. So what is the size of the fans on the model?
@ironman1 posted:It's always something. So what is the size of the fans on the model?
Both GP7 units and most GP9 units had 36" diameter fans. Much later GP9 units (phase III or IV ?) had a larger 48" diameter fan behind the cab, plus a single 48" dimeter fan on the rear of the long hood. Those would have been the up-grade three phase AC cooling fans, used on all later EMD model GP types.
Looks great, hope you enjoy it!
Are those passenger cars for it?
I have to pull my books but the first Redbirds numbers 500 to 505 had four smaller fans and the dynamic brake fan. They were Phase II bodies while the rest were Phase III. The second batch of Redbirds 506-521 had two 48” fans and the dynamic brake fan so this is numbered wrong. I haven’t opened the second unit to see what that number is.
@Hot Water posted:Very nice. Except,,,,,,,,,the N&W "Redbird" passenger GP9 units where the later phase units with the 48" diameter fans.
You sure?
@VGN64 posted:I have to pull my books but the first Redbirds numbers 500 to 5?? had four smaller fans and the dynamic brake fan.
Nope. The N&W "Redbirds" had the single 48" cooling fan behind the cab, with a single 48" fan over the main radiators on the rear of the long hood. NO 36" cooling fans. I just happen to have the original EMD Engineering Dept. order file, plus 8X10 builder photos. As a result, I had 3 HO scale models built to match the N&W "Redbirds", which happened to ride in 1962, during my assignment on the new EMD high nose GP30 units to the N&W.
The second batch of Redbirds had two 48” fans and the dynamic brake fan so this is numbered wrong. The second batch continued with 5?? and went up. I haven’t opened the second unit to see what that number is.
N&W 500-505 were built as freight units 762-767 on order 5486 in Feb/1957. They were rebuilt in Roanoke to passenger units with the bigger water fuel tanks and longitudinal air reservoirs. They did have the 4, 36" fans. Units 506-521 were built on order 5583, built Nov 1958. They were built as passenger units, were phase IIIb and had 48" cooling fans.
@Hot Water posted:
500-505 were Phase II bodies with four 36” fans while 506-521 were Phase III and had two 48” fans.
@rplst8 posted:
What makes you think that GP unit was painted red and not blue. The photo certainly shows the logo for the blue units however its hard to tell the color paint in a black and white photo.
Wow! This seems to be TWO Gp's reportedly with errors! My PRR units are scheduled for tomorrow. I hope Johnathan did his research on those units, especially the torpedo tube GP7 where I clearly stated the correct road numbers for those units on this forum. I also hope they got the DLGE right unlike Lionel's TMCC FA and F7's.
The information is straight from the book N&W First Generation Diesels by Withers and Bowers plus I have photos to back it up. The first 5 came were Phase II bodies, painted in black, were numbered 562-567 but were shopped with longer combined fuel/water tank added, renumbered 500-505, painted red with the script herald on circular plates on each end and script herald painted on the cab sides. All the heralds had a black background for the delux gold lettering. When 506-521 were delivered they were Phase III with the 48" fans, painted red with the script heralds. The front and back heralds were on circular plates sticking out from the ends while the cab heralds were painted directly on the cab all with a black background. When all the units were painted to Pevlar Blue they changed the herald to the hamburger style, painted onto the ends and cab with out a black background.
Would eventually love to see a video Enjoy!
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:What makes you think that GP unit was painted red and not blue. The photo certainly shows the logo for the blue units however its hard to tell the color paint in a black and white photo.
The hamburger logo was used on Tuscan units as well...
My understanding is paint scheme P3, hamburger logo, was during a very short period before P4, blue paint with hamburger logo, came into effect with a major repaint effort. I would think 500-505 were the most likely to get a hamburger herald as they were the oldest paint jobs. The picture of 500 with the hamburger herald is in Withers-Bowers book. We all know no matter what you paint sooner or later you you will find a variation.
Very nice loco and the proportions look right. Like to see it sitting on rails.
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:The photo certainly shows the logo for the blue units however its hard to tell the color paint in a black and white photo.
I tried to colorize it using a program I made to aid in this debate. Link to Photo
You can kinda see the hint of red near the cab, but it doesn't look too good. I will try to work on it to make the red stand out more.
Bryce
@VGN64 posted:My understanding is paint scheme P3, hamburger logo, was during a very short period before P4, blue paint with hamburger logo, came into effect with a major repaint effort. I would think 500-505 were the most likely to get a hamburger herald as they were the oldest paint jobs. The picture of 500 with the hamburger herald is in Withers-Bowers book. We all know no matter what you paint sooner or later you you will find a variation.
Yep. The model is gorgeous. I think 3rd Rail did a great job overall from what I've seen and produced a very accurate model. Getting the exact specific paint details correct is a great bonus - but to me it's about the physical dimensions, proportions, and details - in this regard they are some of the finest models. At least paint is easy to change down the road vs. fixing a broken model or changing the shape/makeup of the overall model.
If you look at Jonathan Sethian's Pennsy GP9 posted on weekend photo fun, you clearly see 48" fans. Look what fell out of mine as I unwrapped it. How about making some of the correct panels? Seems to me that the correct parts were indeed produced.
Steve
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They look like the two 36” fans for Phase II not 48” for the Phase III
@L & N posted:If you look at Jonathan Sethian's Pennsy GP9 posted on weekend photo fun, you clearly see 48" fans. Look what fell out of mine as I unwrapped it. How about making some of the correct panels? Seems to me that the correct parts were indeed produced.
Steve
Amazing - you may be on to something there! I went on the weekend photo thread and can see what you mean. If you look close you can even see the rear 48" fan is on a similar panel like your twin 36" ones above. On the other GP9 thread when I asked about the PH3's it sure seemed that only the PH2 was made, yet there is a pic of a PH3. What a rodeo this is turning out to be!!!
Scott was trying to please as many people as possible so things will happen. I’m happy that he is making the offerings he is at an affordable price.
Is one of the headlight lenses dislodged, or broken?
@Mark V. Spadaro posted:Is one of the headlight lenses dislodged, or broken?
And just which photo are you referring to????????
It appears one of the lenses is missing and the light pushed back in. I rushed to get the pictures online so I will go thru both engines this weekend. If the lense is missing I now Scott wil make it good as customer service is always great.
N&W ran short end forward.
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With all the critiquing of the details & appearance I sure hope it at least runs good!
There is nothing on it that can’t be tweaked. Busy time of the year but when I finish I will post pictures when I do get to it.
What a beauty! Is Scott still taking orders by any chance?
My engines came numbered 518 & 519. This is clearly a mistake. Being as they are the four fan version, they should have been numbered 500 - 505.
I got 518 and 519 too. The MU plugs appear to match 500-505 as they were pyramid shaped and Phase III had a single plug.
@L & N posted:N&W 500-505 were built as freight units 762-767 on order 5486 in Feb/1957. They were rebuilt in Roanoke to passenger units with the bigger water fuel tanks and longitudinal air reservoirs. They did have the 4, 36" fans. Units 506-521 were built on order 5583, built Nov 1958. They were built as passenger units, were phase IIIb and had 48" cooling fans.
The 762 - 767 were built as passenger units, coming from EMD equipped with a steam generator. Later modifications included the larger fuel & water tanks including an additional water tank in the short hood.
My C&NW IS BEAUTIFUL!!
Dick
@Big Jim posted:The 762 - 767 were built as passenger units, coming from EMD equipped with a steam generator. Later modifications included the larger fuel & water tanks including an additional water tank in the short hood.
Correct. I should have said painted like freight units. They were indeed built with steam generators.
Steve
Forgetting phases, what about the missing hand rail stanchion. That looms huge with me, but maybe not for others. Yes, it can be added, but it shouldn't have to be.
Scott, can you supply these so they look the same as those already on the model. Not all stanchions are the same.
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I noticed the missing stanchion too and requested one. I don’t know it was missing on other roads Geeps. I’m going to order a set from P&D just in case as I can always use them on a Red Caboose GP-9.
@VGN64 posted:I noticed the missing stanchion too and requested one... I’m going to order a set from P&D just in case as I can always use them on a Red Caboose GP-9.
Do you know the part number for that set?
Mark in Oregon
Des Plaines should also have them.
P&D had a bunch of other stanchions including plastic one by PSC. I ordered different types as I can use them elsewhere.
P&D Hobby Shop
CUF1032.
<form action="https://www.pdhobbyshop.com/Store/product_info.php?products_id=462&action=add_product" method="post" name="cart_quantity"> </form>
$32.95
Handrail Stanchions, EMD GP-7/9, cast type
VGN64, the cast type is not going to match what is on the GP9 model. You need the GP9/GP18 version.
I can't wait to hear the comments on how they run & sound.
I ordered four types to cover all bases.
Appreciate this information BJ. Are the stanchions installed not the GP7's?
I am pleased with my units. The issues raised are cosmetic and minor. My unit numbers are 514 and 519. The detail is excellent and the fireman side missing stanchion is being rectified by Scott I hear. I unpacked my units Thursday night ,No damage, put them on my programming track and fired them up. They ran a short distance but well. I've decided not to try to change the numbers and am focusing on installation of ESU LokSound v. 5 DCC decoders and Tang speakers. Also replacing the cab side medallion with a Shell Scale Decals black background decal.The blue tinged lights will be replaced with golden white LEDS for headlights and number boards. I agree Scott is to be thanked for bringing these fine units to us. Minor errors are understandable with so many variations. How the units run is key and they met my expectations.
Phil
