Hi all; anyone ever done a Super Chuffer II in a 6-38021 WP #402? It's a good sounding nice running old TMCC, but sadly no puffing smoke.

P1060072

There's not a lot of space, but I am thinking maybe right upfront under the smoke unit; or maybe between the motherboard and the frame right above the back drivers of the front power truck. If anyone has done one, does this work, or where did you wind up putting the board? Thanks for any ideas.

Rod

 

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Last edited by Rod Stewart
Original Post

I've put them in a couple of LM locomotives, including this one.  I believe I tucked it under the smoke unit, the Chuff-Generator was installed on the front motor as it has a little space in the front.

Got it done and running! The space under the smu is a little tight, so I removed the big lead weight at the back of the frame (just visible in the pic above) and put the board there. Easy! The weight didn't seem like it brought much to the table; the engine runs fine without it. I could probably reinstall it if needed. I also added cab lighting on this one. Only hard part was carefully drilling the required hole through the boiler "backhead", but it works fine.

The only dissapointment is the somewhat anemic smoke flow due to the cast S fitting that these engines have between the smu and the stacks on the boiler shell. It is quite restrctive as others have pointed out. May just have to live with it though. 

Rod

I actually reamed one of those out once, it was a giant PITA!  There was also one a few years ago on some double-stack engine that came apart, so I used the Dremel to enlarge the passages as much as possible.  Sometimes there's just one place that has the restriction and you can improve things by opening up that spot.

I actually reamed one of those out once, it was a giant PITA!  There was also one a few years ago on some double-stack engine that came apart, so I used the Dremel to enlarge the passages as much as possible.  Sometimes there's just one place that has the restriction and you can improve things by opening up that spot.

Thanks for the info, I may have to give that a look. I noticed that the S funnel is actually in two pieces held together by tiny screws. Obviously Lionel had to get creative in 2003 to get this smoke unit (8057-200) into the tight confines of this engine and feed two stacks. And due to motor spacing it could not sit directly under the stacks.

I just want to add here that I am very happy with how these Super Chuffers work. They are a nice compact board that adds great functionality to tmcc engines, and it's really nice to have them available, thanks to grj.

my first try at installing one a couple of years ago did not go well, but that was no fault of the board. The engine in question (K-Line Mike) was very tight for space and the design of the cherry switch and cam made it impossible to get it to work. That set me back on the whole concept for a while. But time heals all, and since then the two I have done recently have worked great, and I have settled on a technique that is pretty straightforward. All good. 

Rod

 

The two piece one is one I took apart and tried to enlarge as much as possible, I made a decent improvement, but it still wasn't anything like the straight stack.

So After some reaming and grinding the smoke flow is better, but not great. And now it all exits only the rear stack, at about a 45 degree angle, which looks weird to me. Gotta rethink this project.

I might try my hand at building a custom manifold out of 2 or 3 sizes of thin wall brass tubing. Has anyone tried this with any success? 

Rod

Bruk 3D printed a stack for his T1-Duplex upgrade, it came out great.

I don't see why you couldn't build the custom funnel, don't know how difficult it might be.  The key here is making the passages as large as possible with as few turns as  you can.

3D printing, now that's a nifty idea. Hadn't thought of that. The trouble with that would likely be creating the print file for the software to work from. I wonder what's involved?

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

The trouble with that would likely be creating the print file for the software to work from. I wonder what's involved?

A ton!  That's what keeps me from getting involved in 3D printing.

@Rod Stewart posted:

So After some reaming and grinding the smoke flow is better, but not great. And now it all exits only the rear stack, at about a 45 degree angle, which looks weird to me. Gotta rethink this project.

I might try my hand at building a custom manifold out of 2 or 3 sizes of thin wall brass tubing. Has anyone tried this with any success? 

Rod

Hi Rod,

I had the same problem with my 6-28077 LionMaster Challenger #3983 and the "S" shaped smoke stack.    Although it smoked much better after drilling out the circuit board opening to increase airflow, upgrading the resistor and changing the batting, I was still not happy with the direction of the smoke once it left the Challengers shell  because of the "S" shaped restriction (see photo below).  

20160212_160027

I found a much better smoke funnel part #6101208201 in the parts guide for the LionMaster Big Boy #4011 item 6-11028.  To use this improved dual output Big Boy smoke funnel in a LionMaster Challenger you have to:

a. Remove the “V” shaped wedge from the inside your Challenger's shell with a dremel (this is not for the faint of heart)

b. Drill a new hole for the dual output funnel on one side of the smoke units circuit board.  Be careful of the trace wires inside the circuit board (see my round mark in the next photo)

c. Trim the two mounting tabs off the new dual output funnel

d. Seal the old smoke output location on the circuit board

Challenger Smoke unit location change

The results with the Big Boys new dual output funnel were excellent.  Lots of smoke comes out of both the Challengers stacks.  It’s an even amount of smoke and it goes straight up into the air.

Thanks,

 

 

 

 

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Last edited by T.Albers

T.Albers, thanks for that information. That certainly looks doable. Question, do you happen to have a video or picture taken after the mod that you could show us by chance? 

Thanks, Rod

Sorry Rod, I have not been able to figure out how to successfully post videos on this site.

But, here is a photo from the top of the Challengers shell.  You can see the new LionMaster Big Boy funnel #6101208201 fits great once you trim the "V" wedge. 

And some 3983 Challenger screen shots of the video I shot this morning.  

IMG_7081IMG_7082IMG_7083

Sorry, I'm still working on getting a video to insert/hyperlink/post/embed... on this site. 

Here is a link to the YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FnAiBkChNM

 

Thanks,

 

 

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Last edited by T.Albers
 

Sorry, I'm still working on getting a video to insert/hyberlink/post/embed... on this site

Thanks,

 

 

If you want to post a video, post the video to YouTube first, right click on the address bar, next, and I learned this from GRJ, Click on the movie icon "Insert/Edit Media" to the left of the Smiley Face. Click on the "Embed" tab, Put the website address in the provided space, then click OK. It should then put the embedded video into your post. 

Last edited by Jayhawk500
@T.Albers posted:

Now that's pretty impressive, and way better than the original effort. Thanks for posting. Question: how did you decide where to drill the new smoke outlet hole in the PCB? Did you have a pattern? It looks to me like a difference of only about 1mm forward or backward would cause trouble getting the new funnel to align with the shell stack outlets.
Also I see that hole is very close to the near side pcb trace, as you said, but that should be no big deal since it's a grounded trace anyway. Note that the Super Chuffer is a great mod, but uses the OEM cherry switch to generate chuffs and puffs; so only 2 chuffs per rev like all TMCC stuff. If you want 4 chuffs per rev you will also need the Chuff Generator I believe.

Rod

Correct, if you want a different chuff rate, my solution is indeed the Chuff-Generator.  You can also do it with magnets and a reed switch, but I find that a giant PITA, which is why I designed the Chuff-Generator.

Here is another of my recent Super Chuffer conversions; a circa 2000 scale Mountain 4-8-2. It chuffs and puffs just great now. I bought this engine quite a few years ago from C.sam here on the forum, and it has been the "victim" of many mods and experiments, some successful! It's kind of been my guinea pig engine.

This engine and the #402 Challenger were built during the era when Lionel was experimenting with speakers and sound. They both use an oval speaker about 3-1/2 x 2 that is set above the tender baseplate by a 3/8" high plastic spacer oval. All in all the sound is pretty good considering. The FatBoy speaker was not in use at this time, it evolved somewhat later in the waning days of TMCC.

Rod

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