Super Chuffer In a Lionmaster Challenger? Yes; Now With Video!

Hi @Rod Stewart

Yes, you will be within 1mm of error exiting the Challengers shell.  Sorry, I don't have a pattern to share but here is how I measured it on my smoke units circuit board.   

1.  Start with your old "S" funnel screwed in place.  Then mark a line across the circuit board at center of your existing smoke funnel.  Your new funnel needs to exit the shell centered in the same location (white arrow). Note: my line is too far forward.  

2.  Make a mark at the back wall of your smoke fluid chamber because you cannot drill a hole past this mark (yellow arrow).

3.  Remove the "S" funnel and mark a line down the center of the circuit board (blue arrow).  This will give you a crosshair for your new funnels center mark on the circuit board.

4.  Because that LionMaster Big Boy #4011 had a dual purpose smoke unit for both whistle and smoke exhaust you will find the funnel has an offset inlet tube on the bottom.  You can either make a new brass inlet tube into that funnels bottom so its perfectly centered on your crosshairs lines.   Or measure the funnels offset and drill into the circuit board next to the traces like I did.  Notice after remeasuring several times readjusted I my marked circle back slightly before drilling into the circuit board.

I know we have two different LionMaster Challengers... so before you do anything permanent to your existing smoke unit make sure the height of your old "S" funnel is the same exact height as this new Big Boy dual outlet smoke funnel part #6101208201.  If the height of the two funnels doesn't match correctly then I would not recommend using this new part.

Good luck Rod and post pictures!

T. Albers; thanks for the in-depth instructions, much appreciated, and everything you posted makes good sense.  From that closeup picture your original smoke funnel looks identical to the one in mine, so I think the BB funnel should fit. I suspect the Lionel PN's would turn out to be the same; though I have not done a check. I ordered it over the weekend, but no shipping confirmation from Lionel yet, so who knows when I might see it.

Meanwhile I had ordered a bunch of thin wall brass tubing pieces of various sizes (K&S Engineering)  thinking I might try rolling my own. The order arrived yesterday so I have started fabbing a new manifold. Going OK so far, we shall see what comes of this effort. Could be a bust. Definitely a learning experience. I still hope to receive the BB funnel eventually, so I have a plan B.

I just checked the PN's for the S funnels for the two LM Challengers 6-28077 and 6-38021; and they are indeed identical; both PN 6SP8077201. Seems odd they would have carried over the same crappy funnel to a re-release of the same LM engine! But what do I know?

Rod

Well the brass funnel is done and installed, and better, it seems to work great! It took several hours to fab, very slow going. But having time to do it is no problem these days since we don't leave the house much. 

Here is a few pics. It's not a thing of beauty, but hey, it works!

It consists of a short piece if 1/4 inch tubing for the feed from the smu, and two stacks of 5/16 tubing, which just fit the shell stack openings. The main body is a piece of 7/16 tubing pressed into an oval 14mm wide by 7mm deep. The end plates are flat brass. The body angles downward at 8 degrees so that smoke fluid hopefully runs into the smu.

I have a video clip but it will have to go on Youtube I guess as its a pretty big file. Later.

Rod

Very cool Rod, great work.  Who cares what it looks like under the shell, the net result is you have a working stack!

I took another shorter video which hopefully will upload OK.

Overall I am really happy with the way this turned out, and now she smokes up a storm; yahoo!

Rod

Looks great, I can't imagine better results than that!

Great job Rod!  That’s the way the smoke output should have looked from the factory.

I'm working on a LionMaster T1 Duplex, it has the same demented smoke stack design.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bruk 3D printed a stack for his T1-Duplex upgrade, it came out great.

I don't see why you couldn't build the custom funnel, don't know how difficult it might be.  The key here is making the passages as large as possible with as few turns as  you can.

John, if that T1 is the same Lionmaster as the one Bruk did, he might be able to whip up a 3D print for you. Bruk, if you are following this thread, there could be a small market for replacement stacks for this lame Lionel design. Does the T1 use the same PN 6SP8077201 as the the Challengers? If so, you already have the pattern ready to go? 

Rod

Bruk did the scale T1 Duplex, this is the Lionmaster model.  Did he do one for a Lionmaster Challenger?  That stack looks similar, but the LM T1 Duplex doesn't have the divider in the funnel.

Oddly, the breakdown for the LM T1 Duplex doesn't include the funnel.  Looks very similar to the Challenger one.

From the picture on the right (LM funnel) that looks identical to the Challenger funnel PN 6SP8077201.

Some key dimensions for PN 6SP8077201 are: 15mm horizontally from CL of bowl outlet to CL of the screw holes. 14mm vertically from the top of the smu pcb to the top of the bowl flange. Bowl flange: 32mm L x 13.5mm W.

Rod

Actually that picture of the scale funnel is the same PN I just noticed, except it has the divider added as you noted. That should mean that Bruk's pattern will work in the LM T1, and any of the LM Challengers I would think.

Bruk you may want to consider printing up a few and posting them for sale at a reasonable price. For info, the Bigboy funnel that T.Albers used lists for $12.50 from Lionel. But it requires some mods to be able to use it, as was covered earlier above.

Rod

Hopefully @Bruk can clear this up.  If he has a design for a working funnel for the LM, that would be cool.