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The rebuilding of extinct steam locomotives are a fairly new concept to the steam preservation world. With British railway building a LNER Peppercorn Class A1 60163 AKA Tornado built between 1994 to 2008. We can see rail fans following in British Railways footstep and build other extinct locomotives. Below is a list of locomotive being built.

http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/loco-progress (LMS PATRIOT)

https://www.theclanproject.org/ (BR Standard Class 6)

https://www.p2steam.com/ (P2 2-8-2 Mikado)

http://www.cockothenorth.co.uk/ (Streamlined P2 2-8-2 Mikado)

http://www.82045.org.uk/ (BR 3MT 2‑6‑2 82000)

Now all the above are British. The only American Locomotive Trust is the T1 Trust.

https://prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org/index.php (PRR T-1)

But that's not the point. The point is there have been several rumors that the T-1 is being built to beat the A4 Mallards Steam Speed record of 126 MPH . But, is that really a good idea? Is it really ethical to rewrite history of the in the 21st century? In my opinion build the T-1 BUT DONT try to beat the world steam speed record set by the A4. Tell me your thoughts.

YouTube video about T-1 beating steam speed record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSGyVkeDGg4

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Assuming that is the goal (HIGHLY DOUBT IT)  where on earth would this supposed record breaking attempt occur?  There are only a couple of places in the whole country where this would be theoretically possible, and I don't see any of those places owners getting sucked into such foolishness.  How much of the NEC is rated for operation above 125 MPH, and will a T1 even fit under the catenary?  After spending millions of other people's dollars building this thing, would you risk wadding it up in a big pile just to prove a pointless point?

I know in the Past there was a test done on the old New York Central, that was a test for Speed Record of a Train, though it did have jet engines attached to it. The Historical Marker is in my town. I found this that gave a brief overview of it Though I don't think Norfolk Southern would be so keen on that happening on their rail line. That is one area that it could work. Though building a steam engine to try to break a world steam record, doesn't seem the best Idea to me, just to show one of the more interesting steam engines out there, as well as for excursions.

southern Railfan posted:

The point is there have been several rumors that the T-1 is being built to beat the A4 Mallards Steam Speed record of 126 MPH . But, is that really a good idea? Is it really ethical to rewrite history of the in the 21st century? In my opinion build the T-1 BUT DONT try to beat the world steam speed record set by the A4. 

I guess I don't understand your point. If this engine is built and they get the approvals why not see how fast it will go?  That is what we humans do; push the limits.

It is a different engine than the original (poppet valves, rebalanced drivers, new materials) so it is not rewriting history.  If this modernized/ updated T1 does set a new record, the A4 will still be the fastest original built steamer.

superwarp1 posted:

Well if you check their facebook page, they already have few drivers made. the cab is built and they have the head light assembly.  You can check out their website for the reason why they chose the T1 over other engines.

Not exactly a significant portion of a full steam locomotive.   I'd prefer to see restoration efforts on something that might be completed in my lifetime.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

First, I have listened to presentations from the T1 Trust at the PRRT&HS convention, and beating the OFFICIAL Mallard record was stated more than once as an objective.

However, there is an UN-official story that a PRR E2 atlantic actually ran 127 mph on the Ft Wayne Division.    This was not sanctioned or officially witnessed and recorded.    There are many references to this speed run.

As for the T1, I don't think it is right loco to build, and this is just my opinion.    It is too big and therefore restricted in where it can run as mentioned above.    But more me, it represents a very small part of PRR history, or steam loco history.    I would rather see a new K4 or M1 or M1A built.    The K4s were originally put in service in 1918 I think and some ran until the end of steam in 1957.    That is 39 years of service!   That is a good design.    The M1s entered service in 1928 and some ran until 1957 also, or 29 years of service.    The T1 was late in Steam developement and I think only lasted about 5 years in service.    So to represent the steam era and well designed locos by the Pennsy, I think the K4 or M1/M1a are better candidates.

southern Railfan posted:

But that's not the point. The point is there have been several rumors that the T-1 is being built to beat the A4 Mallards Steam Speed record of 126 MPH . But, is that really a good idea? Is it really ethical to rewrite history of the in the 21st century? In my opinion build the T-1 BUT DONT try to beat the world steam speed record set by the A4. Tell me your thoughts.

YouTube video about T-1 beating steam speed record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSGyVkeDGg4

As much as I have mixed feelings on the T1 project, I don't think that it is appropriate to judge the project based on rumors. Why judge them based on ambitions they do not claim to have?

It might have been discussed as a possibility early on for the group, but they haven't been suggesting that idea. The real question might be about being too unorganized at the start to keep their mission straight with the public, but that is certainly not the case now. 

The T1's were used west of Harrisburg, PA, on the Middle and Pittsburgh Divisions all of which are east of "Lines West" which were west of Pittsburgh, PA.  The original T1's had lateral motion devices on axles #1 and #3 (IIRC), so they could traverse Horse Shoe's 9 deg, 30 min curve.  They also regularly got into and out of St. Louis Union Station, which had a very sharp approach curve (Forget the degrees at the moment).  They did have some problems just west of the Pittsburgh station, but these were caused by the turnout geometry and the back-to-back spacing on the divers.  Adjustments were made to solve the problems.

superwarp1 posted:

Well if you check their facebook page, they already have few drivers made. the cab is built and they have the head light assembly.  You can check out their website for the reason why they chose the T1 over other engines.

Wow two drive wheels have been made. Give me a break. 

Who is going to cast the frame? Not here in the USA. 

For all those that have donated money to this worthless cause (my opinion) should ask for their money back.

I agree with guns all the money and effort put into the T1 project would be better spent on restoration of a already built engine. 

david1 posted:
superwarp1 posted:

Well if you check their facebook page, they already have few drivers made. the cab is built and they have the head light assembly.  You can check out their website for the reason why they chose the T1 over other engines.

Wow two drive wheels have been made. Give me a break. 

Obviously YOU could do much better?

Who is going to cast the frame? Not here in the USA. 

Since you seem to know so much about this, why can't the frame be constructed/fabricated of castings and weldments?

For all those that have donated money to this worthless cause (my opinion) should ask for their money back.

Glade you pointed out that is your "opinion"! In my "opinion" you don't know what you're talking about.

I agree with guns all the money and effort put into the T1 project would be better spent on restoration of a already built engine. 

OK, pick one or two locomotives that COULD be candidates for restoration, that would also have a place to operate and equipment to pull.

 

Read the T1 Trust Facebook page as I was not that aware of the goal of the project and I have to say I really see no problem with the goal of the group.

Kind of refreshing really. If it does not work out, there was still a group of dedicated people who decided to get off their A** and try to do something that interested them.

After reading some of the BS posted above I hope the group not only breaks the speed record, I hope they do it pulling a much heavier load going uphill against the wind!

Then when that is done, I hope someone from the other side of the pond tries the same thing. Much more interesting to me.

Charlie

 

david1 posted:
superwarp1 posted:

Well if you check their facebook page, they already have few drivers made. the cab is built and they have the head light assembly.  You can check out their website for the reason why they chose the T1 over other engines.

Wow two drive wheels have been made. Give me a break. 

Who is going to cast the frame? Not here in the USA. 

For all those that have donated money to this worthless cause (my opinion) should ask for their money back.

I agree with guns all the money and effort put into the T1 project would be better spent on restoration of a already built engine. 

Really, frame can't be cast in the USA?  I guess being in the steel business under the umbrella of the largest steel distributor in the US which in turn does business with almost every mill, forge, and steel producer in North American I find the comment ill educated at best.

While the frame may not be cast in the exact method and process as was original (let's hope not, the forging and casting industry has come along way since the 1950's), there is no reason it cannot and will not be done in the US.  There are many options, such as those Hot Water pointed out.

As for other projects the money could or "should" be put into, that point is moot.  The project is and always has been the T1 Trust, don't like it, don't donate. Feel free to donate your money and time to these other projects you deem more worthy.

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