Tell Me About Standard Gauge...

Oh Strummer, you have just took that first step into another whole realm.  It was in the early 90’s when I bought my first piece of standard gauge.  A Lionel 402E.  When I first saw it, I thought it to be the most butt ugly thing.  After a few hours of socializing at the local train shop and me constantly looking back at that engine sitting on the counter staring at me, I ended up taking it home.  I’m not sure which was worse.  Getting bit by the standard gauge bug or COVID.  COVID only had me down for about a month and a half.  I am one of the fortunate ones in that case.  That darn standard gauge bug bite is still wreaking havoc on me and it’s been over 30 years with no end in sight.  Every time I say “ok, I have enough”,  I find something else I feel I need to have.  I still have quite the collection of O gauge trains too, however, my real thrill is the bright and shiny tinplate trains, buildings and other accessories.  The heft of some of these pieces is astonishing.  Kids of years ago must have been very muscular consider the weight of some of these engines.  Your find is a very nice one.  According to my plexiglass ball, I see a circle of track and transformer coming, a couple of cars, oh and a station.  After that all I see is a big flash.  Enjoy my dear Sir.

I'd tell you, but it's too late...

Standard gauge is what toy trains were meant to be.  Old stuff is simple, and if you're not afraid of putting in some work, it's easy to find operator-grade items at reasonable prices.

Before diving into the modern stuff, search and read threads on the forum regarding the common problems - keeping the gears greased will save you a lot of grief.   

Tell your wife that you'll be in the train room.

You want to know something before you "get in too deep"? That's easy. You should know that you won't stop now. You could eventually fill your house with Pre war and modern Standard Gauge and you will love every one you get. The only concern I have with a similar dilemma, is that I keep hearing parts are harder to get for the original pre war trains and it's been suggested I limit how much I run them. That's not a real big issue because I only do Christmas time floor layouts. I also have happily acquired Lionel/MTH reproductions or items that weren't made prewar. (My Hiawatha set is a good example).

So have at it and keep us updated on how crazy it get. I doubt you will regret it.

David (also in Oregon)

@Strummer posted:

I think it will make a nice addition to the train room...😊

What should I know before I get in "too deep"? 😳🙂

Mark in Oregon

It will make a nice addition to your train room.  Standard Gauge is all about having fun.  Very cool.

Oh dear; that's kinda what I expected...

The first two issues of "Railroad Model Craftsman" I ever got (Dec. '71 and Jan. '72) had a two-part story about restoring some Standard Gauge; I think the guy was in Connecticut. Then, a few years later (mid to late '70s) they ran an article with a fellow named Chuck Brasher, who had a big Standard Gauge layout and collection. When asked what his favorite piece was, he said "whichever one I'm holding at the time". I always thought that was the best answer to that question anyone could give...regardless of scale.

So away we go...

Mark in Oregon

Look at all the pretty colors. 😁

Wait til you run that engine....then the real fun starts.

I see Joe has already made plans for future expansion.  Some very nice looking trains on those shelves Joe.

Standard is the most wonderful rail gift to all of us ever. Enjoy!

How about a little "the rumble and the roar" teaser video?

If you are able to find the newer MTH/Lionel stuff, my advice is to stay away from it. You will be hooked. Nothing better under the Christmas tree.

Your nice 33 is a modest entry into the realm of "el gran tren".

@jini5 posted:

If you are able to find the newer MTH/Lionel stuff, my advice is to stay away from it. You will be hooked. Nothing better under the Christmas tree.

I agree -

What else do you need to know? 

Cheers,

- Mike

"Tell Me About Standard Gauge..."

From an experienced observer:

* It's big.

* It's colorful.

* It's impressive.

* It has its own charm.

* It can shrink your 401K.

Andre

@jini5 posted:

If you are able to find the newer MTH/Lionel stuff, my advice is to stay away from it. You will be hooked. Nothing better under the Christmas tree.

Nothing better EXCEPT the originals . . . 

@laming posted:

"Tell Me About Standard Gauge..."

From an experienced observer:

* It's big.

* It's colorful.

* It's impressive.

* It has its own charm.

* It can shrink your 401K.

Andre

... 😁 ...

Thanks Andre; could that be why you went back to HO?  🙂

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

... 😁 ...

Thanks Andre; could that be why you went back to HO?  🙂

Mark in Oregon

HO:

You bet! There's no financial sink holes in HO. (NOT! )

I think the common denominator of "money" in all this can be distilled down to just two words: Model Railroading.

Andre

@Strummer posted:

Although I've been involved in many different scales over the years, and my interest has been on "realistic" trains, I have always found the colors and charm of Standard Gauge to be most inviting. With that in mind, I just now purchased a restored (repainted) number 33, through Trainz. Here are a few pictures from eBay:

I think it will make a nice addition to the train room...😊

What should I know before I get in "too deep"? 😳🙂

Mark in Oregon

Mark,

By coincidence, my first piece of Standard Gauge was also a #33. I bought a derelict one and restored it. Here is a pic of mine:

It looks exactly like yours, except that mine has red window trim.

I've purchased other Standard gauge items over the years, some all original, some I restored. I now have several "sets" that I set up under my Christmas Tree every year. For more, click here: https://www.warrenvillerailroa...s-too-standard-gauge

Click here: Memorial Diner in Honor of my Brother (warrenvillerailroad.com) to see my restoration process

Have fun with this new aspect of the hobby - I am

I recently acquired a 392e.  Were do you find Standard Gauge Track?

@Lionelski posted:

Mark,

By coincidence, my first piece of Standard Gauge was also a #33. I bought a derelict one and restored it. Here is a pic of mine:

It looks exactly like yours, except that mine has red window trim.

I've purchased other Standard gauge items over the years, some all original, some I restored. I now have several "sets" that I set up under my Christmas Tree every year. For more, click here: https://www.warrenvillerailroa...s-too-standard-gauge

Click here: Memorial Diner in Honor of my Brother (warrenvillerailroad.com) to see my restoration process

Have fun with this new aspect of the hobby - I am

You did a great job on that restoration...and yes, it's my understanding that the window trim should be red like yours. 👍

Mark in Oregon

@BYIENGST posted:

I recently acquired a 392e.  Were do you find Standard Gauge Track?

I don't know that either...Gargraves, maybe?

Mark in Oregon

@BYIENGST posted:

I recently acquired a 392e.  Were do you find Standard Gauge Track?

@Strummer posted:

I don't know that either...Gargraves, maybe?

Mark in Oregon

USA Track - high quality stuff, owned and built by a TCA and forum member.  https://standardgaugetrack.com/

Thanks!

Mark in Oregon

Definitely a vote for USA Track. I used it plus Menards O to make 5 rail. Then you can play mix and match. After testing the track on the table I moved it up to an elevated around the room track.

USA Track -muy bien!

So...to work on and trouble shoot these things; I'm guessing it must be fairly straightforward, since there are literally no "bells and whistles". Just a motor and a simple light bulb...(?)

Mark in Oregon

Have contacted USA Track and I think a couple 36" pieces are in the immediate future...🙂

Mark in Oregon

@jini5 posted:

If you are able to find the newer MTH/Lionel stuff, my advice is to stay away from it. You will be hooked. Nothing better under the Christmas tree.

Here is a few pics to show how nice the modern stuff is.

I run mine on original track from my dad’s original set circa 1927 and all is well, but I have heard from this site that USA track is the bomb and when I checked the prices it seems reasonable.  I’m thinkin if you go that way you won’t be sorry.  I only need a couple pieces to complete the track plan I have in mind so I’m gonna stay original.  Also all my standard gauge is prewar original, preferably not restored, original paint, want the nicest possible, but some patina and blemishes not withstanding.
Have fun,       W1

@Strummer posted:

You did a great job on that restoration...and yes, it's my understanding that the window trim should be red like yours. 👍

Mark in Oregon

Thanks Mark

Standard gauge trains are great things. This is my second time around collecting them after a 20+ year hiatus. i don't have a layout. I don't go to York. I don't belong to the TCA or a regional group. Not that I am opposed to any of the above as they are great things to do and be a part of, I just have other things going on in my life at the moment.

As a recently renewed collector, I have 9 original Lionel prewar standard gauge sets at the moment. No more, no less as of today. I don't have a layout but I occasionally set up a big oval on my floor. I have a few of these sets on display. I don't have any real shelves per se.

What I really like about these trains is that they are a glimpse into the past. A lot of original standard gauge trains are 100 year old now, or will be within the next decade or two. They are historic pieces that were played with by a child and his father during the Roaring 20s or the Great Depression. They represented a form of escapism when they were new. In today's world, I look at my few trains and they still represent escapism.

I appreciate design and color. In this roundabout as a collector, I am buying pieces that reflect my current taste.

I look at the trains I have and think about how they were once owned by a child-or maybe an adult-in a very different time in our country's history. These people-whoever they were-were very proud to own them. One of the sets I own is a 1928 408E apple green  freight set. I got this from a Philadelphia estate auction. All of the original boxes have the kid's (adult's?) name written on them in big letters. That person must have been very proud to own this set. To me, that is important and I appreciate being the current caretaker.

These old standard gauge trains are great. They are colorful, visually bold, cantankerous yet functional as the day they were new. You can take one of these relics and anyone with half a brain can make them operable again and relive what the original owner experienced nearly ten decades ago. Their simplicity and their ruggedness is a virtue and tells the story of days gone by. From an esthetic standpoint, they are strong visual personas. Those that have survived can tell stories that we cannot even imagine. These trains today have gone from their original owners, to collectors, to other collectors that are more than likely deceased and now are spending their years with you and me for the moment. I like being a caretaker to the few trains I have. I assume that, at some point, some one else will be a caretaker to these historic relics and they will continue to live on. Their scratches and dents tell stories that we cannot even imagine.

Enjoy your collecting journey and be a good caretaker to these historically significant objects. When life gets you down, look at these and  appreciate the fantasy they provide.

That was very nicely said. "Caretakers"...I like that... 😊 👍

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

So...to work on and trouble shoot these things; I'm guessing it must be fairly straightforward, since there are literally no "bells and whistles". Just a motor and a simple light bulb...(?)

Mark in Oregon

In a word... yes. Depending on how deep you want to get in to repairs and restoration there are tooling costs etc.

I abandoned modern O gauge for prewar when the first PC board scarcity popped up.  Never looked back.  Saved a ton of aggravation in troubleshooting those boards.

@Strummer posted:

So...to work on and trouble shoot these things; I'm guessing it must be fairly straightforward, since there are literally no "bells and whistles". Just a motor and a simple light bulb...(?)

Mark in Oregon

Which suggests that if one goes for new tinplate, stick with traditional conventional motive power reproductions for future simplicity, reliability, reparability, and "feel".

BTW, some prewar American Flyer Wide gauge have mechanical working bells. Neat feature!

Have fun!

Bob

With due deference to the late Louis Hertz, and though Ives was a good company with excellent products and service, American Flyer and Lionel were clearly the US leaders in prewar toy train production (with the possible exception of the three-position e-unit). Hertz was largely responsible for perpetuating the Ives mystique through his several tomes.

... still waiting on the #33; I guess FedEx must be busy. Anyway, in anticipation of its delivery I purchased this:

I remember seeing this advertised back when I first discovered "Railroad Model Craftsman" magazine (in 1971). This is a copy from the fourth printing (1987).

Pretty general stuff, but it will keep me occupied until the "33" arrives... hopefully by next Tuesday. 🙂

Mark in Oregon

Nothing better than a 95 year old train in original paint that looks and runs like new.  Here is my #10, made in 1927, do the math.  Hope your guy is a good one.

Cheers,       W1

@William 1 posted:

Nothing better than a 95 year old train in original paint that looks and runs like new.  Here is my #10, made in 1927, do the math.  Hope your guy is a good one.

Cheers,       W1

Mark,

Find a copy of Peter Riddle's America's Standard Gauge Electric Trains. It is an excellent summary of the development of the type as well as a brief guide to the major manufacturers (including some modern ones) and also to the original manufacturers' products.  He discusses construction techniques, provides a survey of the various kinds of trains and accessories, and describes the building of a basic but well-conceived layout.  It isn't the final word on any aspect of this branch of the hobby but an excellent introduction and appetite-whetter.

@palallin posted:

Mark,

Find a copy of Peter Riddle's America's Standard Gauge Electric Trains. It is an excellent summary of the development of the type as well as a brief guide to the major manufacturers (including some modern ones) and also to the original manufacturers' products...

Thanks for the heads up; found one and have purchased same! 👍🙂

Mark in Oregon

Ordered the book too.  $11 bucks, why not.  Thanks for the tip.

@William 1 posted:

Ordered the book too.  $11 bucks, why not.  Thanks for the tip.

Right on...👍😁

Mark in Oregon

PS: the inspiration for this discussion (the #33) is scheduled to arrive on Monday. Quick question: are the motors in these old things considered "universal", like the series wound types in ACG engines?

@Strummer posted:

Quick question: are the motors in these old things considered "universal", like the series wound types in ACG engines?

Yes.

Quick question, quick answer. 😁

Thank you. 👍

Mark in Oregon

This finally arrived today: 🙂

Some initial thoughts:

When I first picked it up at the post office, I was surprised by the size of the box it was in; I expected it to be much larger. The engine survived the trip with zero damage, so the shipping box was big enough. 🙂

Taking it out of the box was like Christmas morning; very exciting. This thing is so cool; with its light, bell and other details. Hooked it up to my MRC 027 transformer; started a little slowly (guessing it hasn't been run for a while), but once it "warmed up" it was fine. Kinda noisy; that large, metal body is a real sound chamber. 😳

Since this is a "restored" piece, decals were used, not stamping, which is probably common (?)

I will look closer into this thing over the weekend; any suggestions as to lubrication points, etc.? I'm guessing it's pretty straightforward.

I can certainly see the allure of Standard Gauge... it's quite wonderful! 😊

Mark in Oregon

Good start! :-)

Thanks!

Here is a picture of the "guts": I guess this is a slightly newer example, since the frame is not of the "u" type?

Typically, what would be the correct light bulb for this unit? It's got a "430", but it doesn't work. I have tried a  #1447 (from my American Flyer spares) and that works, but the globe looks too small for this much larger engine...

Mark in Oregon

Mark, Best estimate for timing on this Loco is 1917-1918. The 2 piece lightened frame, Die cast 8 spoke wheels, reversing switch mounting plate design, hook coupler with nibs, lighting post on the top... These are all clues to the dating. Im expecting the windows in the end doors to have brass plates that say "MADE BY THE LIONEL MFG CO." on them and the motor to have 9 field laminations, but you did not show either in the photos posted.

The hollow shell was indeed a resonator and amplifier of the sound!

@Strummer posted:

Thanks!

Typically, what would be the correct light bulb for this unit? It's got a "430", but it doesn't work. I have tried a  #1447 (from my American Flyer spares) and that works, but the globe looks too small for this much larger engine...

Mark in Oregon

430 is your bulb. Since your 1447 works, its likely the the 430 filament is no good.

@Rob English posted:

1. Best estimate for timing on this Loco is 1917-1918.

2. Im expecting the windows in the end doors to have brass plates that say "MADE BY THE LIONEL MFG CO." on them and the motor to have 9 field laminations...

3. The hollow shell was indeed a resonator and amplifier of the sound!

Hey Rob

Thanks for all your help with this; I obviously know zilch about Standard Gauge, so your information is greatly appreciated.

1. Wow; it's older than I would have imagined.

2. Yes, on both counts.

3. The motor itself is, I think, pretty quiet. There is a "chattering" which I think is due to the axle holes in the frame sides being slightly worn and a little enlarged.

I have ordered some replacement motor brushes; will changing these simply be a question of removing the screws that hold the caps (and wires) in place?

Thanks again. 👍

Mark in Oregon

Another update (in case anyone is the slightest bit interested). 🙂

The Riddle book arrived today: looks like a good one; thanks for the heads up.

I have been in contact with USA Track; Kirk emailed me the other day and he's waiting on a supplier before he can send me some track. In the meantime, I discovered that if I take 2 sections of Gargraves S gauge track (which I have plenty of) and lay them parallel to each other with 1/2" spacing between the ties, it makes almost a perfect 2 1/8" rail spacing. Here are a few lousy pictures:

The blue tape is just to hold everything in place.

Now that I can run the "33" (at least for about four and a half feet 😐 ) I am surprised by how quiet and smooth running it actually is.  It's almost disappointing; I figured part of the attraction to this old stuff would be the noise they make! 😄

Having a good time with this...

Mark in Oregon

@NJCJOE posted:

Look at all the pretty colors. 😁

Wait til you run that engine....then the real fun starts.

Joe,

IS this 12' of GSS?

JoeG

Yes, it is Joe.

What is "GSS"? "Gargraves Stainless Steel"?

Mark in Oregon

Glenn Snyder shelving.

@NJCJOE posted:

Glenn Snyder shelving.

Ah...gee, I wasn't even close! 😳 🙂

Mark in Oregon

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome!  Great job!

@NJCJOE posted:

Yes, it is Joe.

Well, I am in trouble then! I have an area of 7.5 feet wide and a lot of Std Gauge! Lol

Joe

I'm finding that I'm having the most fun in standard gauges doing restorations.  Here's my latest project.  It's a 180-181-182 medium size passenger car set with an extra 180.  After studying these in Greenburg and Daly, I've determined the date must be in the 1914-1916 range.

I have all of the parts except a few window strips.  Decals are on order from Radtains on eBay, and the maroon paint will be in my next order to Trainenamels.

Window strips are a problem.  Looking at photos, I see that the clerestory roofs with those tabs had the blue window shade inserts.  Does anyone know where I can find the blue shade material ?

Standard Gauge sales began Nov 1906..#2&1 trolleys ...mid / later 1907 ..steamers 5& 6 ...and frieght were added.

1910 the first passenger cars were added,18,19&190...with knobs .

The real,sales pinch for standard gauge,,..which was not a standard ...and advertised as 2" gauge till 1913..was the,sectional track ... which was a big improvement over ribbon track used by thr other,American electric train manufactures .

Here is a video link to see a Lionel 1912 pulling the early knob 18,19& 190...all from 1910 ...and a thin rim 5 pulling some 10's series cars ..all circa 1908-9 ...

Running on the original split pin standard gauge track ..1908-1912.

Cheers Carey

https://youtu.be/c_-221KL1eE

@Strummer posted:

Hey Rob

Thanks for all your help with this; I obviously know zilch about Standard Gauge, so your information is greatly appreciated.

1. Wow; it's older than I would have imagined.

2. Yes, on both counts.

3. The motor itself is, I think, pretty quiet. There is a "chattering" which I think is due to the axle holes in the frame sides being slightly worn and a little enlarged.

I have ordered some replacement motor brushes; will changing these simply be a question of removing the screws that hold the caps (and wires) in place?

Thanks again. 👍

Mark in Oregon

You bet. Supposed to be fairly easy but never is. Caps are interference fit, but getting them off without the tube moving can sometimes be challenging. Screw just hold wires on. Be gentle... the brass is thin wall and a little fragile.

Pick up Arnos book "NOT your Daddys Train". A true account of all Tinplate. Info listed on Facebook under Tinplate Times

Joe Gozzo

@Strummer posted:

Although I've been involved in many different scales over the years, and my interest has been on "realistic" trains, I have always found the colors and charm of Standard Gauge to be most inviting. With that in mind, I just now purchased a restored (repainted) number 33, through Trainz. Here are a few pictures from eBay:

I think it will make a nice addition to the train room...😊

What should I know before I get in "too deep"? 😳🙂

Mark in Oregon

Mark,

Welcome to the shiny side of the hobby,

@Trainlover160 posted:

Pick up Arnos book "NOT your Daddys Train". A true account of all Tinplate. Info listed on Facebook under Tinplate Times

Joe Gozzo

Doesn't that book only cover modern era (i.e. 1960 and later) SG?

@palallin posted:

Doesn't that book only cover modern era (i.e. 1960 and later) SG?

That's what I thought too...🤔

Mark in Oregon

@palallin posted:

Doesn't that book only cover modern era (i.e. 1960 and later) SG?

Yes, only modern era.

@Trainlover160 posted:

Well, I am in trouble then! I have an area of 7.5 feet wide and a lot of Std Gauge! Lol

Joe

Feel free to send any leftovers to me Joe.

My apologies to everyone waiting for track.  It took months to get time at a stamping plant to make ties, and now we are waiting for the black oxide coating to be applied. We hope to be back in production this month.

Kirk Lindvig

USA TRACK LLC

Thanks Kirk for the update; I also appreciated the email...👍

Mark in Oregon

Mark,

If you really want to jump into the “deep end”, buy the new Baars/Carse book on MESG (Modern Era Standard Gauge). Standard Gauge production did not end with WW2!

Just send a check for $136 to:

@Strummer posted:

Another update (in case anyone is the slightest bit interested). 🙂

The Riddle book arrived today: looks like a good one; thanks for the heads up.

I have been in contact with USA Track; Kirk emailed me the other day and he's waiting on a supplier before he can send me some track. In the meantime, I discovered that if I take 2 sections of Gargraves S gauge track (which I have plenty of) and lay them parallel to each other with 1/2" spacing between the ties, it makes almost a perfect 2 1/8" rail spacing. Here are a few lousy pictures:

The blue tape is just to hold everything in place.

Now that I can run the "33" (at least for about four and a half feet 😐 ) I am surprised by how quiet and smooth running it actually is.  It's almost disappointing; I figured part of the attraction to this old stuff would be the noise they make! 😄

Having a good time with this...

Mark in Oregon

The wood ties cut quite a bit of the joyful clatter.

Steve

@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

The wood ties cut quite a bit of the joyful clatter.

Steve

Ah... that makes sense. 🙂

Mark in Oregon

@SGMA1 posted:

My apologies to everyone waiting for track.  It took months to get time at a stamping plant to make ties, and now we are waiting for the black oxide coating to be applied. We hope to be back in production this month.

Kirk Lindvig

USA TRACK LLC

Always worth the wait Kirk. We ALWAYS appreciate You!

Joeg

@Rob English posted:

Re: Changing motor brushes.

"You bet. Supposed to be fairly easy but never is. Caps are interference fit, but getting them off without the tube moving can sometimes be challenging. Screw just hold wires on. Be gentle... the brass is thin wall and a little fragile."

Thanks for the heads up. Do you mean the caps  are like a "friction-type" fit? The replacement brushes have arrived, but I don't want to muck things up.  After all, it's running pretty nicely now...

I love how basic and easy to disassemble this is; (4) screws and off the body comes...and it's a hundred(+) years old. I can see how this could become addictive!  😊

Mark in Oregon

Addictive you say? Wait till you transition to the classic era of Lionel and American Flyer standard gauge circa 1926-1930's: large and elaborate engines and rolling stock! Let the games begin!

Even a humble Lionel #8 or #10 passenger set will beckon to you!

@Strummer posted:

Thanks for the heads up. Do you mean the caps  are like a "friction-type" fit? The replacement brushes have arrived, but I don't want to muck things up.  After all, it's running pretty nicely now...

I love how basic and easy to disassemble this is; (4) screws and off the body comes...and it's a hundred(+) years old. I can see how this could become addictive!  😊

Mark in Oregon

Yes just so.  I would leave them be and keep the new brushes in reserve.

Well, that was interesting. Never to leave well enough alone, I decided to go ahead and replace the brushes. They were both very worn, so it was time.

The replacement brushes were far too "fat" in diameter to slip into the brass tubes. I didn't want to force anything but had to install something. I looked into my stash of stuff and it turns out the "shouldered" brushes for the later American Flyer S scale locomotives fit. 🙂

They are overall a bit smaller, but due to the large coil springs they work just fine. This sure is a smooth runner... 😊

Mark in Oregon

PS: I could add here that the Gilbert coil springs are indentical to the Lionel original/replacement springs...FWIW.

@Strummer posted:

Well, that was interesting. Never to leave well enough alone, I decided to go ahead and replace the brushes. They were both very worn, so it was time.

The replacement brushes were far too "fat" in diameter to slip into the brass tubes. I didn't want to force anything but had to install something. I looked into my stash of stuff and it turns out the "shouldered" brushes for the later American Flyer S scale locomotives fit. 🙂

They are overall a bit smaller, but due to the large coil springs they work just fine. This sure is a smooth runner... 😊

Mark in Oregon

PS: I could add here that the Gilbert coil springs are indentical to the Lionel original/replacement springs...FWIW.

All righty then... alls well that ends well!

@Rob English posted:

All righty then... alls well that ends well!

Indeed; thanks. This old thing is quite cool. 😊

Questions:

1. other than the center rail pick up(s), what is the difference between the motor on this "33" and the "Super Motor"?

2. what's the difference between the "33","38" and the "1911"; the "50" and "53"? Or the "10" and the "318"/"380"? I'm looking at the book by the TCA, but it doesn't really go into too much detail... although it's great to look at! 🙂

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

Indeed; thanks. This old thing is quite cool. 😊

Questions:

1. other than the center rail pick up(s), what is the difference between the motor on this "33" and the "Super Motor"?

2. what's the difference between the "33","38" and the "1911"; the "50" and "53"? Or the "10" and the "318"/"380"? I'm looking at the book by the TCA, but it doesn't really go into too much detail... although it's great to look at! 🙂

Mark in Oregon

I'll leave the answers to your questions to others who are far more qualified than me.

However, there are other resources for reference materials...

While the book you pictured is an excellent starting point, a more definitive work is Greenberg's guide to standard gauge trains.  Still available from the author:  http://brinkmannpub.com/Page/stdGauge.html

If you want an extremely detailed compilation of Lionel standard gauge freight car variations, find a copy of Caryl Pettijohn's book.  I believe that he still has copies for sale, although he didn't have any with him at York.  You can access his contact info via the members' section of the TCA website.

Got my Greenberg guide.  Might want to invest in one of these.  Pretty much tells the whole story in an organized way.  You will learn a lot in a short time, I did.

Well, it tells the Lionel story (and I *do* want one!), but SG is bigger than Lionel (even if they did start it).  Flyer, IVES, Bucher, Bing, and Dorfan all made great trains.

@palallin posted:

Well, it tells the Lionel story (and I *do* want one!), but SG is bigger than Lionel (even if they did start it).  Flyer, IVES, Bucher, Bing, and Dorfan all made great trains.

... which is why I'm enjoying the Riddle book so much. I kinda think I know the Lionel story (from Hollander's book and others), but this Riddle book seems to be covering all the bases.

Having said that, if I fall far enough into this SG pit, I will probably get the Greenberg book as well... 😁

Mark in Oregon

It’s a valid point that the book is all Lionel, I suppose it depends on where your interest lies.  I’m happy to keep my collection small and focused on Lionel prewar standard gauge.  I have some nice engines, the small sized passenger sets and 500 freights.  Don’t need or want any more at this point.  I like having really nice original paint Lionel and I’ll just stay with that for now. I like seeing the other stuff in forum members amazing collections but want to stay small with my own thing.

William 1:

I completely get that; if this mania continues (😜) , I will probably stick to Lionel as well. I do find it interesting to learn about the other brands; some of the American Flyer items are pretty nice!

Different subject: what type of power supply do you SG guys typically use? I just picked up this Type S for a dollar, since the cord was cut:

Have replaced the cord and it works "as advertised". Like probably most of you, I have lots of power packs/transformers, but this is at least kind of an older item... what do you use? 🙂

Mark in Oregon

Mark - I use a Cab1, powermaster and TMCC brick.  Here is a 318 with brown baby states, another of the smaller and less expensive prewar standard gauge engines.

Thanks for your quick response. 🙂

So you are using very "modern" equipment to power your very old trains. That certainly makes sense.

I am reluctant to use any type of transformer as old as these trains;  even though the "S" type is anything but new, it's still a lot more recent.

I have a big MRC 027 unit (the one with the handheld) that I might try; the small (also MRC) unit I have seems to work well too.

Like the S scale American Flyer engines, the "33" will do ok on DC, but it seems to take quite a bit of juice to get it running...

More fun and games. 😊

Mark in Oregon

Mark my prewar table is powered by my 250 Watt ZW, which runs my four independent loops. It easily handles the dual motor 408E, along with three other engines and search light cars. Two small transformers supply the lighting circuits.

@Rich Wiemann posted:

Mark my prewar table is powered by my 250 Watt ZW, which runs my four independent loops. It easily handles the dual motor 408E, along with three other engines and search light cars. Two small transformers supply the lighting circuits.

Wow, that's a lot of stuff going on; those ZWs are pretty powerful, it would seem. 👍

Question: the cars behind the 408E look like they are a little smaller in comparison; what series are they?

Thanks for your response...and terrific video! 🙂

Mark in Oregon

I had a totally equipped TMCC layout and loved it but had to tear it down when I moved.  A moment of silence…. Wasn’t  interested in Legacy so I sold everything but a few pieces.  My dad still has his gray #10 set and he let me have it for a bit and I just thought it was so cool that a 90 year old toy train still looks and runs like new.  I guess you could say that’s when I got prewar standard gauge bug.  Still have the TMCC power equipment.

@Strummer posted:

Question: the cars behind the 408E look like they are a little smaller in comparison; what series are they?

500 Series. Even the 200 might look small behind that.

Mark - Prewar standard gauge freight cars were made in 2 series. The 500 freights are smaller and were included in less expensive sets.  The 200 series were larger and included with the bigger engines like the mighty 400E steamer.  I have almost every color scheme, not every variation of the 500s.  I think there is a tank can or two I don’t have, like the yellow Shell I’ve seen, but I’m pretty happy with what I have and not going after any 200s or the larger sized passenger cars.  

@William 1 posted:

Mark - Prewar standard gauge freight cars were made in 2 series. The 500 freights are smaller and were included in less expensive sets.  The 200 series were larger and included with the bigger engines like the mighty 400E steamer.

Hmm...so the smaller the number, the bigger the car; interesting.  So I suppose a "200" series car would look too big for my little "33"...(?)

Thanks for the info and posts so far, guys. This is fascinating stuff...

Mark in Oregon

Mark,
The #33 is an Early Period engine.  While it can certainly pull cars from either era, the Classic Period cars (200- and 500-sereis) fit in a little better with the later engines.

Early Period freight cars are the 10-series and the 100-series, with the higher numbered cars also being the smaller in size.

Again, no law forces you to limit your choices, but it is helpful to know what originally came together if you are interested in matching the aesthetics.  There was some overlap in sales ca. 1923-4 or 5, including the earlier cars coming with the Classic Era engines.  #8 sets with the 30-series passenger cars seem to be kinda common, for example.

@palallin posted:

Mark,
The #33 is an Early Period engine.  While it can certainly pull cars from either era, the Classic Period cars (200- and 500-sereis) fit in a little better with the later engines.

Early Period freight cars are the 10-series and the 100-series, with the higher numbered cars also being the smaller in size.

Again, no law forces you to limit your choices, but it is helpful to know what originally came together if you are interested in matching the aesthetics.  There was some overlap in sales ca. 1923-4 or 5, including the earlier cars coming with the Classic Era engines.  #8 sets with the 30-series passenger cars seem to be kinda common, for example.

That's all very helpful, thanks. So the #112 gondola (which seems huge to me) is actually one of the smaller series...(?) Holy cow. 😲 So is the #10 engine considered "small" as well?

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

That's all very helpful, thanks. So the #112 gondola (which seems huge to me) is actually one of the smaller series...(?) Holy cow. 😲 So is the #10 engine considered "small" as well?

Mark in Oregon

Mark here is quick side by side comparison between a 408E and 10…..you decide, it’s all relative.

@Rich Wiemann posted:

Mark here is quick side by side comparison between a 408E and 10…..you decide, it’s all relative.

😳😳😳...omigod! That's a 10!?! That's incredible...I had no idea, obviously. No wonder a 408 is so much more expensive and...impressive.

And the curved track for both of these was "042"? Good grief...

Wow, I have a lot to learn; thank you for posting this.

Mark in Oregon

Not all cars can be pulled by all locos (and each MFG has a coupling system) due to size differences... can be a little confusing.

@Rob English posted:

Not all cars can be pulled by all locos (and each MFG has a coupling system) due to size differences... can be a little confusing.

You got that right!

I noticed the over all size of the 112 gondola seems a bit big for the "33"; guess I should look for some smaller freight cars...(?) Is the #10 about the same size as the "33"?

It is "confusing"; at the same time, it also makes it more interesting, in a way.

Mark in Oregon

Here is a document  put together some years ago...